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Author Topic: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM  (Read 8151 times)

Offline Bob33

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2021, 11:14:59 AM »
That's a bleak report by Pat Fowler.

"At another Wildlife Program meeting, Dr. Martorello asked a group of 39 WDFW wildlife biologists, “how many of you support predator hunting?” Only 3 biologists raised their hands in support of hunting predators."

Shame on WDFW senior management for allowing that to happen.
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Offline Special T

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2021, 11:19:11 AM »
That's a bleak report by Pat Fowler.

"At another Wildlife Program meeting, Dr. Martorello asked a group of 39 WDFW wildlife biologists, “how many of you support predator hunting?” Only 3 biologists raised their hands in support of hunting predators."

Shame on WDFW senior management for allowing that to happen.

It's only the retired staff that have the freedom to do what is right for sportsmen. That's sad.
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Offline Karl Blanchard

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2021, 11:32:40 AM »
Is there some sort of grounds for legal action against the state. Humans have been eating animals since the beginning of time. I am as much a predator on the landscape as any bear, cougar, or wolf. Ive got just as much of a right to the resource as they do :twocents:

You would have to find something they did that was wrong according to the law and their mandate.  Unfortunately, the law doesn't require them to maintain or grow elk numbers.

The hound hunting stuff is now law.  They could easily argue that their mandate is to return to more "balanced" numbers and kinds of predators which would mean less elk.  They appropriate tags in accordance with the available resource.

Not saying I agree at all, just saying that the courts would look at it from a much different perspective than a hunter.  It's also the reason I quit playing, I can spend my money and time in a state that has goals and actions much better aligned with hunters.
where there's a will there is a way. Hound hunting is banned but id almost wager the state is killing more cats with hounds than hunters ever did. Ive got a buddy here in Yakima that runs dogs for wdfw and its shocking how often he is running cats.

I'm right there with you and maybe even ahead of you on dipping out from WA hunting but this is still my home state and as we've seen this year and last, out of state tags are becoming harder and harder to come by and its not gonna get any better as these western states tighten the reigns on NR tag allocations. Its past time we get our own house in order.


Idahohuntr- i don't claim to be smart enough or versed enough in the nuances of how the politics worth with this stuff but it seems to me that the anti hunting organizations are pretty good at getting what they want via legal actions. If there are wrong doings we as hunters should take aggressive legal actions upon the state. Like I said, im not the guy to figure that out but there are certainly people like Pat that could figure that out. One thing we can all do is back those people verbally and FINANCIALLY. Hunters are the absolute worst at united for a common cause. A guy will buy a $5,000 custom rifle but won't throw a hundred dollar bill at something that will truly benefit them as a hunter. Its perplexing  :twocents:
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Offline trophyhunt

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2021, 12:02:39 PM »
Running cats but not killing them, I'm just guessing Karl because I know a guy who also ran cats for the wdfw.  The politics got so bad in house it just wasn't worth it for him so he quit them last year, sold all his dogs.  Pretty sad deal, he lived for and has been running dogs his whole life. 
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Offline Karl Blanchard

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2021, 12:17:07 PM »
Running cats but not killing them, I'm just guessing Karl because I know a guy who also ran cats for the wdfw.  The politics got so bad in house it just wasn't worth it for him so he quit them last year, sold all his dogs.  Pretty sad deal, he lived for and has been running dogs his whole life.
oh no they are killing plenty
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Offline whacker1

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2021, 12:21:57 PM »
following along

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2021, 12:24:58 PM »
Running cats but not killing them, I'm just guessing Karl because I know a guy who also ran cats for the wdfw.  The politics got so bad in house it just wasn't worth it for him so he quit them last year, sold all his dogs.  Pretty sad deal, he lived for and has been running dogs his whole life.
oh no they are killing plenty
Well that's a change in policy, a good change.  My buddy collared them and took info.
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Offline OutHouse

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2021, 02:03:42 PM »
Is there some sort of grounds for legal action against the state. Humans have been eating animals since the beginning of time. I am as much a predator on the landscape as any bear, cougar, or wolf. Ive got just as much of a right to the resource as they do :twocents:

You would have to find something they did that was wrong according to the law and their mandate.  Unfortunately, the law doesn't require them to maintain or grow elk numbers.

The hound hunting stuff is now law.  They could easily argue that their mandate is to return to more "balanced" numbers and kinds of predators which would mean less elk.  They appropriate tags in accordance with the available resource.

Not saying I agree at all, just saying that the courts would look at it from a much different perspective than a hunter.  It's also the reason I quit playing, I can spend my money and time in a state that has goals and actions much better aligned with hunters.

I think Stein's opinion is spot on. If they follow the process they are supposed to (and per their mandate) then the court is going to say they didn't do anything wrong, you just don't like the position they took. That's a hard fight. I'm not sure who would have standing to sue, but I suppose an affected hunter might be able to if they didn't follow the right procedure etc.

Offline MR5x5

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2021, 02:16:48 PM »
Sorry, but yawn.....

The ONLY leverage we have is $$ but few are willing to skip a year and make a statement so the beat goes on.
I voted my $$ out of this state years ago.  Yeah, it cost a little more, it can be inconvenient, but I simply can not support the con in good conscious.

Offline Bob33

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2021, 04:53:49 PM »
If suing Washington state government agencies could be successful...
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline jstone

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2021, 05:03:04 PM »
Lawyers and judges bought and paid for

Offline bearpaw

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2021, 05:17:08 PM »
Until Washington gets a different and conservative governor you will not see any change in WDFW, the governor will not allow the type of management needed, that has already been proven!  :twocents:
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline jstone

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2021, 05:19:52 PM »
 :yeah:

Offline jstone

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2021, 05:20:25 PM »
This state needs a overhaul from the TOP down.!!!
Badly

Offline idahohuntr

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2021, 05:22:42 PM »
Is there some sort of grounds for legal action against the state. Humans have been eating animals since the beginning of time. I am as much a predator on the landscape as any bear, cougar, or wolf. Ive got just as much of a right to the resource as they do :twocents:

You would have to find something they did that was wrong according to the law and their mandate.  Unfortunately, the law doesn't require them to maintain or grow elk numbers.

The hound hunting stuff is now law.  They could easily argue that their mandate is to return to more "balanced" numbers and kinds of predators which would mean less elk.  They appropriate tags in accordance with the available resource.

Not saying I agree at all, just saying that the courts would look at it from a much different perspective than a hunter.  It's also the reason I quit playing, I can spend my money and time in a state that has goals and actions much better aligned with hunters.
where there's a will there is a way. Hound hunting is banned but id almost wager the state is killing more cats with hounds than hunters ever did. Ive got a buddy here in Yakima that runs dogs for wdfw and its shocking how often he is running cats.

I'm right there with you and maybe even ahead of you on dipping out from WA hunting but this is still my home state and as we've seen this year and last, out of state tags are becoming harder and harder to come by and its not gonna get any better as these western states tighten the reigns on NR tag allocations. Its past time we get our own house in order.


Idahohuntr- i don't claim to be smart enough or versed enough in the nuances of how the politics worth with this stuff but it seems to me that the anti hunting organizations are pretty good at getting what they want via legal actions. If there are wrong doings we as hunters should take aggressive legal actions upon the state. Like I said, im not the guy to figure that out but there are certainly people like Pat that could figure that out. One thing we can all do is back those people verbally and FINANCIALLY. Hunters are the absolute worst at united for a common cause. A guy will buy a $5,000 custom rifle but won't throw a hundred dollar bill at something that will truly benefit them as a hunter. Its perplexing  :twocents:
I'm with ya on holding them accountable, but I see all the same issues as Stein and Outhouse note.  A lot of times enviros are suing to stop stuff...injunctions against wolf killing etc...those sort of discrete issues are a lot easier than suing over general mismanagement of a complex system. 

I raise the issues of lawsuits being a tough road because I would hate to see hunters use their limited resources on such futile efforts.  Believe me...if I could successfully sue the state over their myriad of negligence, incompetence, and mismanagement I'd be the first guy in line at the court house!  From elk, wolves, the permit return bs, private lands program....its really actually sad and shameful...but the courts are not a viable solution for most of these broad concerns.   :twocents:
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

 


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