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Author Topic: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM  (Read 9585 times)

Offline idaho guy

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #45 on: November 27, 2021, 03:55:32 PM »
Sacrifice one to save a thousand.
They should do these raffles a little better.
No cap just like it is.
But after 25 tickets ,the price per ticket go up Alot.
That way the odds are not so one sided ,yet conservation money is still there,with a little better odds for the poor guy.


The increasing price is a good idea 👍

Offline idaho guy

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2021, 04:20:53 PM »
I believe this raffle is the Rocky Mountain bighorn done by WAWSF and they are very transparent with where the money is spent and what sheep projects.

It is. And they are. And maybe the guys would come on and put it all out there to see. Maybe not though, as some have decided itís better to smack talk the big money guys who spend the money.
 

I donít think anyone except maybe 1 poster 😂 is smack talking the rich guys buying tags. These threads always go to the discussion of selling wildlife to the highest bidder but most of the comments so far have been possible options on tweaking the program in my opinion. Iím not really reading any comments saying anythings wrong with the tags but just some options. I am somewhat uncomfortable selling Wildlife to the highest bidder as it is a slippery slope. At the same time I appreciate all the benefits these funds provide for conservation. I would never want to get rid of auction tags and Iím not jealous of folks who buy them. The big money tags really are subsidizing the regular draw tags which provides an affordable opportunity for the regular hunter to have at least a chance to hunt the same limited resources. Just saying everything is perfect and glorifying just the benefits of selling wildlife I think is dangerous. Itís working right now but we could definitely go too far with these. I still think the individual hunter here is kind of being a hog 😂 nothing illegal or necessarily wrong with it I just wouldnít shoot 3 sheep out of the same herd (within in a few years )in the name of ďconservationĒ. Other than that good for him and that ram is probably in part the result of big spenders money. It works right now but I think itís good to be critical and try to improve the system or at least keep it from going overboard

Offline KP-Skagit

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2021, 05:10:02 PM »
I believe this raffle is the Rocky Mountain bighorn done by WAWSF and they are very transparent with where the money is spent and what sheep projects.

It is. And they are. And maybe the guys would come on and put it all out there to see. Maybe not though, as some have decided itís better to smack talk the big money guys who spend the money.
It's an ethics thing for me, not money. If it's all about who spends the most then pen raise them. You don't have an issue with the only tag being auctioned off then the auctioneers business being the subsequent beneficiary via guide service?

Does the buyer/winner of the tag have to pay and hunt with the guide? If so, I have a problem with that aspect of it.

I'm 99% sure a family friend got that tag about 10 years ago and hunted unguided. He said his phone was ringing off the hook with folks trying to guide him but he knew the unit and didn't want to spend the money. He shot a dandy, very close to state record.

Offline jackelope

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PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2021, 05:55:50 PM »
I believe this raffle is the Rocky Mountain bighorn done by WAWSF and they are very transparent with where the money is spent and what sheep projects.

It is. And they are. And maybe the guys would come on and put it all out there to see. Maybe not though, as some have decided itís better to smack talk the big money guys who spend the money.
It's an ethics thing for me, not money. If it's all about who spends the most then pen raise them. You don't have an issue with the only tag being auctioned off then the auctioneers business being the subsequent beneficiary via guide service?

Does the buyer/winner of the tag have to pay and hunt with the guide? If so, I have a problem with that aspect of it.

I'm 99% sure a family friend got that tag about 10 years ago and hunted unguided. He said his phone was ringing off the hook with folks trying to guide him but he knew the unit and didn't want to spend the money. He shot a dandy, very close to state record.

Iím 99.9% sure you donít have to use a guide.

The ballers that ďbuyĒ the raffle tags mostly spend the money on a guide, and really thereís one guide outfit that knows those sheep better than anyone.
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline NOCK NOCK

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2021, 06:11:02 PM »
I believe this raffle is the Rocky Mountain bighorn done by WAWSF and they are very transparent with where the money is spent and what sheep projects.

It is. And they are. And maybe the guys would come on and put it all out there to see. Maybe not though, as some have decided itís better to smack talk the big money guys who spend the money.
 

I donít think anyone except maybe 1 poster 😂 is smack talking the rich guys buying tags. These threads always go to the discussion of selling wildlife to the highest bidder but most of the comments so far have been possible options on tweaking the program in my opinion. Iím not really reading any comments saying anythings wrong with the tags but just some options. I am somewhat uncomfortable selling Wildlife to the highest bidder as it is a slippery slope. At the same time I appreciate all the benefits these funds provide for conservation. I would never want to get rid of auction tags and Iím not jealous of folks who buy them. The big money tags really are subsidizing the regular draw tags which provides an affordable opportunity for the regular hunter to have at least a chance to hunt the same limited resources. Just saying everything is perfect and glorifying just the benefits of selling wildlife I think is dangerous. Itís working right now but we could definitely go too far with these. I still think the individual hunter here is kind of being a hog 😂 nothing illegal or necessarily wrong with it I just wouldnít shoot 3 sheep out of the same herd (within in a few years )in the name of ďconservationĒ. Other than that good for him and that ram is probably in part the result of big spenders money. It works right now but I think itís good to be critical and try to improve the system or at least keep it from going overboard

 :yeah: Its greedy and IMO, Un sportsman like. Treat others as you would like to be treated.......SHARE.

Well I hope I'm not the smack talker, but if so, oh well. It is good to be honest and voice your opinion, whether others like it or not.  ;)

Why not try 1 year where raffle tickets are capped at say 20-50 per person. Many would possibly buy more than they do now (I know I would)  and there is the possibility that even more $$ could be raised than currently.  If it doesn't work WDFW could always go back to status quo.
WalMart and many other successful large retailers do not excel by selling only to the rich, and for high dollars.......VOLUME usually out performs most other strategies.
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Offline Stein

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #50 on: November 27, 2021, 07:36:40 PM »
Volume works when you have many to sell, no way any extra tickets would make up for the loss of revenue from the big spenders.  It's why you see paintings go to auction and not to raffle.  One guy always wants it enough when there is such a limited supply.

Governor's tags aren't about equity, they are about striking a balance between enough money for conservation along with as many general public tags as possible.  They are designed from the ground up to be as scarce and as valuable as possible.

If the system was designed for equity, there wouldn't be any raffles or special permits, just pull names out of the hat and hand out the tags.  Any time you introduce any fees, equity starts leaving the room.  Many people can't afford 50 tickets, some can't even afford the special permit fees and the extra tag costs when you luck out.  You have to look up and down if you want true equity.

DEBC general tags is the equity piece for big game, anything else is some version of pay to play.  There are the cheap seats and the high roller table, something for everyone.

Offline idaho guy

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #51 on: November 27, 2021, 07:42:23 PM »
I believe this raffle is the Rocky Mountain bighorn done by WAWSF and they are very transparent with where the money is spent and what sheep projects.

It is. And they are. And maybe the guys would come on and put it all out there to see. Maybe not though, as some have decided itís better to smack talk the big money guys who spend the money.
 

I donít think anyone except maybe 1 poster 😂 is smack talking the rich guys buying tags. These threads always go to the discussion of selling wildlife to the highest bidder but most of the comments so far have been possible options on tweaking the program in my opinion. Iím not really reading any comments saying anythings wrong with the tags but just some options. I am somewhat uncomfortable selling Wildlife to the highest bidder as it is a slippery slope. At the same time I appreciate all the benefits these funds provide for conservation. I would never want to get rid of auction tags and Iím not jealous of folks who buy them. The big money tags really are subsidizing the regular draw tags which provides an affordable opportunity for the regular hunter to have at least a chance to hunt the same limited resources. Just saying everything is perfect and glorifying just the benefits of selling wildlife I think is dangerous. Itís working right now but we could definitely go too far with these. I still think the individual hunter here is kind of being a hog 😂 nothing illegal or necessarily wrong with it I just wouldnít shoot 3 sheep out of the same herd (within in a few years )in the name of ďconservationĒ. Other than that good for him and that ram is probably in part the result of big spenders money. It works right now but I think itís good to be critical and try to improve the system or at least keep it from going overboard

 :yeah: Its greedy and IMO, Un sportsman like. Treat others as you would like to be treated.......SHARE.

Well I hope I'm not the smack talker, but if so, oh well. It is good to be honest and voice your opinion, whether others like it or not.  ;)

Why not try 1 year where raffle tickets are capped at say 20-50 per person. Many would possibly buy more than they do now (I know I would)  and there is the possibility that even more $$ could be raised than currently.  If it doesn't work WDFW could always go back to status quo.
WalMart and many other successful large retailers do not excel by selling only to the rich, and for high dollars.......VOLUME usually out performs most other strategies.
 

Youíre definitely not the one talking smack.😂I agree with you/seems like if they cap raffles it would force the big guys into the auction and drive those prices up as it would be the only way to reliably get a tag. I think it could raise more money as higher auction prices and more people buying raffles knowing they wonít get flooded could actually raise more money. They should at least try it

Offline NOCK NOCK

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #52 on: November 27, 2021, 07:56:13 PM »
Awesome ram..
Congrats to the hunter...
If you got the money spend it.

Sadly though I think allot of our quality opportunities across the board will go this direction in the future...to much money to be made selling animals to the high bidder.


Your last statement is SPOT on.  :tup:
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Offline chukarchaser

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #53 on: November 29, 2021, 07:04:49 PM »
And there in lies the problem.  Quality hunts will go to who have the money and then overall interest in hunting will diminish.  Its death by 1000's of cuts.  We are just selling ourselves down the path to a rich mans sport just as was in Europe

Offline NOCK NOCK

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #54 on: November 29, 2021, 07:48:26 PM »
Volume works when you have many to sell, no way any extra tickets would make up for the loss of revenue from the big spenders.  It's why you see paintings go to auction and not to raffle.  One guy always wants it enough when there is such a limited supply.

Governor's tags aren't about equity, they are about striking a balance between enough money for conservation along with as many general public tags as possible.  They are designed from the ground up to be as scarce and as valuable as possible.

If the system was designed for equity, there wouldn't be any raffles or special permits, just pull names out of the hat and hand out the tags.  Any time you introduce any fees, equity starts leaving the room.  Many people can't afford 50 tickets, some can't even afford the special permit fees and the extra tag costs when you luck out.  You have to look up and down if you want true equity.

DEBC general tags is the equity piece for big game, anything else is some version of pay to play.  There are the cheap seats and the high roller table, something for everyone.


FWIW.......Volume is selling "many".  Raffle tickets are unlimited.......which equals "many".    :P........ :chuckle: :chuckle:
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Offline Stein

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #55 on: November 29, 2021, 07:58:03 PM »
Volume works when you have many to sell, no way any extra tickets would make up for the loss of revenue from the big spenders.  It's why you see paintings go to auction and not to raffle.  One guy always wants it enough when there is such a limited supply.

Governor's tags aren't about equity, they are about striking a balance between enough money for conservation along with as many general public tags as possible.  They are designed from the ground up to be as scarce and as valuable as possible.

If the system was designed for equity, there wouldn't be any raffles or special permits, just pull names out of the hat and hand out the tags.  Any time you introduce any fees, equity starts leaving the room.  Many people can't afford 50 tickets, some can't even afford the special permit fees and the extra tag costs when you luck out.  You have to look up and down if you want true equity.

DEBC general tags is the equity piece for big game, anything else is some version of pay to play.  There are the cheap seats and the high roller table, something for everyone.


FWIW.......Volume is selling "many".  Raffle tickets are unlimited.......which equals "many".    :P........ :chuckle: :chuckle:

I guess it is true WDFW has convinced many that they are in the business of selling raffle tickets and special hunt applications and there is value in collecting points and tickets.   :chuckle: 

Offline nimrod67

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #56 on: November 30, 2021, 06:55:49 PM »
In my opinion the argument about the money going to conservation is a bad one because this state stopped doing real conservation and instead the money goes to support certain political agendas.
"One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted...If one were to present the sportsman with the death of the animal as a gift he would refuse it. What he is after is having to win it, to conquer the surly brute through his own effort and skill with all the extras that this carries with it: the immersion in the countryside, the healthfulness of the exercise, the distraction from his job."

Jose Ortega

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #57 on: November 30, 2021, 07:38:16 PM »
Thatís awesome my fellow Pennsylvanian spends his fortunes in
 Washington and holds a record !! PA doesnít need his money since they know how to manage game properly !! 😂😂😂.  Hope my 1st post in along time doesnít tick anyone off 😮✅😂.   

Offline h20hunter

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #58 on: November 30, 2021, 07:39:36 PM »
Not in a million years would i guess you are from Pennsylvania!  :tup:

Offline time2hunt

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #59 on: November 30, 2021, 07:43:30 PM »
Thatís awesome my fellow Pennsylvanian spends his fortunes in
 Washington and holds a record !! PA doesnít need his money since they know how to manage game properly !! .  Hope my 1st post in along time doesnít tick anyone off .
Lol !! One of these days I will win the elk raffle in PA and hold your state record bull elk


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