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Author Topic: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM  (Read 3504 times)

Offline idaho guy

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2021, 07:45:59 PM »
Thats a cool ram for sure.
Interesting when one of these stories pop up the amount of mud slinging that happens in comments. (I saw some negative comments in the page posted)

On one hand many WA residents could apply to special permits for a lifetime and never get drawn and even if they do its one and done, not counting raffles. Let alone afford guides to find such a brute. Seeing as this gentleman has killed 3 Bighorns here in 6 years I am guessing he spends alot of dough on raffle tickets and other things the likes of which many of us average guys/gals just can't afford.

On the other hand, this guy has likely put more money into WA Conservation/Sheep Conservation as a non-resident than many of us could do or will do in a lifetime.

Is it fair? I don't know.
Am I jealous? Oh ya
Am I mad? nope

Very cool writeup he had. Congrats to the hunter and I thank him for investing in our State.


Im gonna get flamed for this , but thats Ok.

I get tired of hearing the "They put lots of money into Sheep conservation"......If they are really concerned about conservation, no one is stopping them from making a donation without the expectation of receiving a tag.  How many rams does an individual need to shoot?  To me it appears they are paying for their own personal enjoyment/hunting stock. 

Personally I am not a greedy dude, and would be happy to just have the opportunity to hunt sheep one time on my home turf.
 Even if i could afford to play these type of games, I would only do it once........no need to take opportunity away from my fellow hunters..............

Sharing resources and being considerate of fellow hunters is a long lost thing.
 

I agree with this. It doesn’t make me mad the hunter can do this but 3 rams just from Washington not to mention all the other sheep seems pretty excessive. I would also be happy with 1 (of all 4 species 😂)and leave some for the next guy. Anyways good for him that’s definitely an awesome ram.

Offline jackelope

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PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2021, 07:52:28 PM »
Thats a cool ram for sure.
Interesting when one of these stories pop up the amount of mud slinging that happens in comments. (I saw some negative comments in the page posted)

On one hand many WA residents could apply to special permits for a lifetime and never get drawn and even if they do its one and done, not counting raffles. Let alone afford guides to find such a brute. Seeing as this gentleman has killed 3 Bighorns here in 6 years I am guessing he spends alot of dough on raffle tickets and other things the likes of which many of us average guys/gals just can't afford.

On the other hand, this guy has likely put more money into WA Conservation/Sheep Conservation as a non-resident than many of us could do or will do in a lifetime.

Is it fair? I don't know.
Am I jealous? Oh ya
Am I mad? nope

Very cool writeup he had. Congrats to the hunter and I thank him for investing in our State.


Im gonna get flamed for this , but thats Ok.

I get tired of hearing the "They put lots of money into Sheep conservation"......If they are really concerned about conservation, no one is stopping them from making a donation without the expectation of receiving a tag.  How many rams does an individual need to shoot?  To me it appears they are paying for their own personal enjoyment/hunting stock. 

Personally I am not a greedy dude, and would be happy to just have the opportunity to hunt sheep one time on my home turf.
 Even if i could afford to play these type of games, I would only do it once........no need to take opportunity away from my fellow hunters..............

Sharing resources and being considerate of fellow hunters is a long lost thing.

Have you bought any sheep raffle tickets?

If I could either make a big donation in the name of conservation or make a big donation in the name of conservation and get a sheep tag out of it, I know which of the 2 I’d be going for and the one I’d pick doesn’t include not getting a sheep tag out of it.

Call me crazy.
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline dreamingbig

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2021, 05:03:09 AM »
It is a cool ram.  It doesn’t sound like this was a permit tag.  My input on permit tags is that residents should have better draw odds than nonresidents.  Every other western state is favoring residents.


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Offline NOCK NOCK

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2021, 06:02:03 AM »
Thats a cool ram for sure.
Interesting when one of these stories pop up the amount of mud slinging that happens in comments. (I saw some negative comments in the page posted)

On one hand many WA residents could apply to special permits for a lifetime and never get drawn and even if they do its one and done, not counting raffles. Let alone afford guides to find such a brute. Seeing as this gentleman has killed 3 Bighorns here in 6 years I am guessing he spends alot of dough on raffle tickets and other things the likes of which many of us average guys/gals just can't afford.

On the other hand, this guy has likely put more money into WA Conservation/Sheep Conservation as a non-resident than many of us could do or will do in a lifetime.

Is it fair? I don't know.
Am I jealous? Oh ya
Am I mad? nope

Very cool writeup he had. Congrats to the hunter and I thank him for investing in our State.


Im gonna get flamed for this , but thats Ok.

I get tired of hearing the "They put lots of money into Sheep conservation"......If they are really concerned about conservation, no one is stopping them from making a donation without the expectation of receiving a tag.  How many rams does an individual need to shoot?  To me it appears they are paying for their own personal enjoyment/hunting stock. 

Personally I am not a greedy dude, and would be happy to just have the opportunity to hunt sheep one time on my home turf.
 Even if i could afford to play these type of games, I would only do it once........no need to take opportunity away from my fellow hunters..............

Sharing resources and being considerate of fellow hunters is a long lost thing.

Have you bought any sheep raffle tickets?

If I could either make a big donation in the name of conservation or make a big donation in the name of conservation and get a sheep tag out of it, I know which of the 2 I’d be going for and the one I’d pick doesn’t include not getting a sheep tag out of it.

Call me crazy.


I have bought raffle tickets in the past, never more than 2 in a year.

Would I love to be able to shoot a ram every year? Absolutely.  Would I?  ABSOLUTELY NOT.  Just seems greedy to me, I would be happy with just 1 ram, and to know that other hunters will get to have the same experience I had.

If you take a box of donuts to work, do you eat them all, or do you share them? (you paid for them, they are your donuts, you don't have to share)

When you donate to a charity, do you ALWAYS expect something in return?

Not trying to pick on ya Josh, just explaining my point of view. Happy Turkey day Buddy!

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Offline Bob33

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2021, 07:15:47 AM »
Assuming these are raffle tickets with no cap, he probably bought a lot of tickets that didn't win. He must have bought a large number to win several times. I suspect that the amount he has spent in tickets could have purchased multiple hunts in other places.

Did the sheep he shot take away the opportunity from someone else? Yes. Did the money he has spent resulted in more sleep hunting opportunities for everyone else? Probably.
He may have also donated money to conservation causes without any direct benefit.

I do think shooting three sheep in one state seems excessive but he did it legally and playing by the same rules available to everyone.
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline hunter399

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2021, 08:03:17 AM »
Ya,Hopefully his pocket change is running low,and someone eles can have a chance at a raffle ticket.
Just sayin. :chuckle:
Two birds in the Bush is always better than one in the hand-that way you can always go to the Bush and hunt another day .conservation=Better hunting.
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Offline bearpaw

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2021, 10:10:41 AM »
Assuming these are raffle tickets with no cap, he probably bought a lot of tickets that didn't win. He must have bought a large number to win several times. I suspect that the amount he has spent in tickets could have purchased multiple hunts in other places.

Did the sheep he shot take away the opportunity from someone else? Yes. Did the money he has spent resulted in more sleep hunting opportunities for everyone else? Probably.
He may have also donated money to conservation causes without any direct benefit.

I do think shooting three sheep in one state seems excessive but he did it legally and playing by the same rules available to everyone.

Excellent comments Bob33

I can definitely see why hunters who have never had a chance at a sheep struggle with one guy getting three sheep in the same state, on the surface it certainly appears unfair. I wish agencies would do a better job of justifying to everyone how these dollars are actually being put to use so that there are more sheep on the mountain for everyone to hunt. Even though it may seem unfair on the surface, the result of all this money being put into the system is actually providing more sheep hunting opportunity for everyone, not just the hunters who are making the big expenditures.
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Offline meatwhack

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2021, 06:19:21 PM »
There are several wealthy hunters that have been opting to purchase a large sum of raffle tickets rather than buying a governors tag. In many instances they’ve discovered that they can roll the dice and usually get the same tag for substantially less money than buying the governors tag. For this reason I think raffle tags should be limited in the number each individual can purchase so it isn’t strictly a rich mans deal like it’s become.

Offline JDHasty

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2021, 07:06:48 PM »
These guys that participate in tag auctions and raffles can be hard working hunters who do more than buy a tag and hire others to locate a “trophy” animal, then drive them right up to it, or in some cases retain the services of a helicopter service then pay an attorney to find loopholes for them.  But unfortunately way too many of them fall into the latter category. 

I reserve judgement until I know more before deciding if it represented a hunt or if it is nothing but a “hunt.”  The latter I consider to be pretty much no more worthy of any respect than individuals who collect taxidermy of high fenced game animals they have paid to shoot. 

FWIW, this article highlights an excellent example of the former:

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19910922&id=gENWAAAAIBAJ&sjid=mOoDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6525,5192645&hl=en


Offline jackelope

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2021, 07:29:39 PM »
These guys that participate in tag auctions and raffles can be hard working hunters who do more than buy a tag and hire others to locate a “trophy” animal, then drive them right up to it, or in some cases retain the services of a helicopter service then pay an attorney to find loopholes for them.  But unfortunately way too many of them fall into the latter category. 

I reserve judgement until I know more before deciding if it represented a hunt or if it is nothing but a “hunt.”  The latter I consider to be pretty much no more worthy of any respect than individuals who collect taxidermy of high fenced game animals they have paid to shoot. 

FWIW, this article highlights an excellent example of the former:

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19910922&id=gENWAAAAIBAJ&sjid=mOoDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6525,5192645&hl=en

Soooo without admittedly knowing one way or the other how this hunt went, why would you bring that malarkey into this thread?
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" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

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Offline Seabass

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2021, 07:37:34 PM »
Limiting the number of tickets sold to an individual limits the number of dollars raised. If the point of the raffle is to raise money then the number should be unlimited.

Offline JDHasty

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2021, 07:46:41 PM »
You might want to look up the meaning of reserve judgement and decide if others have the right to reserve judgement unless/until sufficient facts are known before deciding for themselves if this is an accomplishment they recognize as praise worthy or if it is an”accomplishment” that they don’t recognize as particularly praiseworthy or if to them it represents a scandal and disgrace. 

Without having more to go on, I have no opinion either way regarding taking of this magnificent animal being an accomplishment worthy of praise.  Being as the story is about the hunter I don’t have enough to go on.  If it were about the ram, I think all can agree that it is a magnificent example. 

The thread had already been opened to a discussion regarding the ethics/propriety of unlimited purchases of raffle tags.  Are only those who post opinion that validates your personal opinion allowed, or is this a board in which people can discuss topics in which there are differences of opinion can discuss them? 
« Last Edit: November 25, 2021, 07:54:13 PM by JDHasty »

Offline Tbar

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2021, 07:48:25 PM »
Assuming these are raffle tickets with no cap, he probably bought a lot of tickets that didn't win. He must have bought a large number to win several times. I suspect that the amount he has spent in tickets could have purchased multiple hunts in other places.

Did the sheep he shot take away the opportunity from someone else? Yes. Did the money he has spent resulted in more sleep hunting opportunities for everyone else? Probably.
He may have also donated money to conservation causes without any direct benefit.

I do think shooting three sheep in one state seems excessive but he did it legally and playing by the same rules available to everyone.
Good comment Bob.  I don't like the model being used with sheep today.  To the average resident it matters not, they will likely never hunt sheep in this state.  It is interesting how the big players market "conservation " and "more sheep on the mountain" while they double dip on these animals.  The amount of sheep tags that go to the raffle/auction in this state is just plain wrong.  Then you have the same people who sell the tag, and collect a service fee (big parties for affluent folks can be expensive to host), then they follow it up with a pre planned guide service.  When only one rocky tag was available it was sold and not offered through the draw? What percentage of those sold tags were guided by the ones who sold(raffle) it?  Just seems like a lot of insider baseball to me.

Offline jackelope

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2021, 07:50:00 PM »
You might want to look up the meaning of reserve judgement and decide if others have the right to reserve judgement unless/until sufficient facts are known before deciding for themselves if this is an accomplishment they recognize as praise worthy or if it is an”accomplishment” that they don’t recognize as particularly praiseworthy or if to them it represents a scandal and disgrace. 

Without having more to go on, I have no opinion either way regarding taking it being an accomplishment.  Being as the story is about the hunter I don’t have enough to go on.  If it were about the ram, I think all can agree that it is a magnificent example.
So you have no opinion
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Offline JDHasty

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Re: PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER KILLS RECORD WASHINGTON RAM
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2021, 08:13:12 PM »
My opinion on auction/unlimited purchase raffle tags is
A) they do raise a lot of money. 
B) the participants use of the tag range from what I consider consummate sportsmanship to absolute scandal and disgrace.  YMMV, notice I posted “I choose to reserve judgement.”
C) the stories come to the public because the winner of the tag wants notoriety, or does not object
D) the money raised mostly, but not always benefits the target species
E) even the most dastardly of unethical individuals have their fanboys
F) the non-profits and State Agencies involved can range from as ethical as anyone could hope for or just as unscrupulous as any regarding who is allowed to participate

That is just off the top of my head. 

 


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