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Author Topic: Cougar hunting proposal  (Read 3763 times)

Offline RB

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Re: Cougar hunting proposal
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2022, 07:51:42 AM »
Jerry:

I get your sentiments, but remember, we have to try and rebuild the predator control somehow!
I agree, we need hounds.  I agree, we need bait, but you and I both know, in this state we aren't going to get the whole buffet line at once. 

This change is positive and a step in the right direction.

 :twocents:




 :yeah:
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Offline hunter399

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Re: Cougar hunting proposal
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2022, 07:53:47 AM »
Honest question, if they took away limits completely on cougar, how many more cats would be killed? What is the percentage of hunters that have even seen one cat in the past 5 years, 10 years?? Iíve spent tons of hours glassing in the blues, sitting for hours watching hill sides, never saw a cat over there. I know we have a big cat problem, but allowing one more cate to be killed will save the elk and deer? Hell, Iíd like to see one cat per 100 hunters get killed. Iíll comment, but itís not even a band aid on a open wound thatís pumping blood. If The WDFW really want to help, theyíd push for changing hounds and baiting laws.
Honestly they could take away quotas in SOME areas.
Look at NE WA .
And the meat eater episode the other day.
60+ removal a year.
That tells me more opportunity should go to hunters with longer seasons and less quotas.


Just wanted to add that these hounds men do a great job at safety removal ECT.
But an August opener,or two cat limit in problem areas for NE WA should also be going on for some areas.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 08:03:02 AM by hunter399 »
Two birds in the Bush is always better than one in the hand-that way you can always go to the Bush and hunt another day .conservation=Better hunting.
Wrote by hunter399

Offline RB

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Re: Cougar hunting proposal
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2022, 07:54:03 AM »
Thanks for the link comment added more tags!

Here is what we are up against the lack of knowledge in this persons statement is mind boggling!


"Why don't you reduce human hunting of elk until the population bounces back? Killing off a part of the ecosystem doesn't make sense. Cougars can never do as much damage as advanced hunters who use technology. Please compare how many humans kill off elk vs cougars in the area".
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Offline Stein

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Re: Cougar hunting proposal
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2022, 08:56:07 AM »
Maybe WDFW should report how many elk are killed in the Blue Mountains from hunters and predators, I bet that person would be surprised to say the least.

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Re: Cougar hunting proposal
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2022, 09:03:32 AM »
I agree, and participate in the frustration...

But we may as well comment when the door opens a crack for it. Think carefully and address the core issue. More people see what we say every time we're able to say it.  Do what you can where you can.

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Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Cougar hunting proposal
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2022, 09:14:03 AM »
Jerry:

I get your sentiments, but remember, we have to try and rebuild the predator control somehow!
I agree, we need hounds.  I agree, we need bait, but you and I both know, in this state we aren't going to get the whole buffet line at once. 

This change is positive and a step in the right direction.

 :twocents:
I agree with ya, hell, im sure Iíve never disagreed w ya!  :chuckle:
ďIn common withĒ..... not so much!!

Offline Timberstalker

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Re: Cougar hunting proposal
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2022, 09:59:31 AM »
All good man, let's hope WDFW sees the light.  I do know, if something isn't done in the Blues (ASAP), the deer/elk/moose are going to be gone.
If you aint hunting, you aint livin'

Offline Meow

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Re: Cougar hunting proposal
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2022, 10:35:26 AM »
Honest question, if they took away limits completely on cougar, how many more cats would be killed? What is the percentage of hunters that have even seen one cat in the past 5 years, 10 years?? Iíve spent tons of hours glassing in the blues, sitting for hours watching hill sides, never saw a cat over there. I know we have a big cat problem, but allowing one more cate to be killed will save the elk and deer? Hell, Iíd like to see one cat per 100 hunters get killed. Iíll comment, but itís not even a band aid on a open wound thatís pumping blood. If The WDFW really want to help, theyíd push for changing hounds and baiting laws.
Honestly they could take away quotas in SOME areas.
Look at NE WA .
And the meat eater episode the other day.
60+ removal a year.
That tells me more opportunity should go to hunters with longer seasons and less quotas.


Just wanted to add that these hounds men do a great job at safety removal ECT.
But an August opener,or two cat limit in problem areas for NE WA should also be going on for some areas.
The cougar opener should be moved up to August 1st to match bears state wide, or at the very least in the SE and NE units. I bet that would get a lot more people out when access is easy pressure is relatively low, and there's not a lot else to hunt. Would be a shame to call in a cougar while bear hunting and have to let it go.

As trophyhunt stated, adjusting the limit alone doesn't seem like it will greatly increase the number of cats killed, as they're so elusive.

Offline buckfvr

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Re: Cougar hunting proposal
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2022, 10:43:45 AM »


Here is what we are up against the lack of knowledge in this persons statement is mind boggling!


"Why don't you reduce human hunting of elk until the population bounces back? Killing off a part of the ecosystem doesn't make sense. Cougars can never do as much damage as advanced hunters who use technology. Please compare how many humans kill off elk vs cougars in the area".


Obviously this person knows absolutely zero his/herself.  This person is what I call a repeater as they and many others are only capable of repeating rhetoric supplied by anti hunting groups.  This is all likely to go the route of spring bear anyway as the attack on hunters continues.

Offline Special T

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Re: Cougar hunting proposal
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2022, 11:40:48 AM »
This is a throw away compromise IMO. This will do almost nothing to greatly reduce cougar numbers. Perhaps we should bust into the game management plan for blues elk and see if they are low enough drastic measures could be taken.
In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

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Offline elksnout

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Re: Cougar hunting proposal
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2022, 10:05:28 PM »
Commented.

elksnout
Can't we all just get along?

Offline hunter399

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Re: Cougar hunting proposal
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2022, 04:57:42 AM »
Thanks for the link comment added more tags!

Here is what we are up against the lack of knowledge in this persons statement is mind boggling!


"Why don't you reduce human hunting of elk until the population bounces back? Killing off a part of the ecosystem doesn't make sense. Cougars can never do as much damage as advanced hunters who use technology. Please compare how many humans kill off elk vs cougars in the area".

It's pretty obvious that antlerless hunts should be put on hold. I don't think any hunters want to destroy an ecosystem.
At the same time ungulate and predators need management to equal the playing field in order to keep a equal balance between ungulate and predator and humans.

I'm no expert on the Blues elk herd.
Wolves are not being managed in Washington. I'm a firm believer that these cougar are trying to adapt to a new ecosystem. Cougar was top predator ,not any more.
A pecking order so to speak.
What happens when you kill A lot of coyote in area?
The next year they have bigger litters,and even more coyote appear.
This is just a thought......
Cougar are adapteing by breeding more,bigger litters.
Also if a cougar kills an Elk,eats,covers the kill.
Then other predators find that and eat it.
Will cause that cougar to kill another Elk.
Wolves and coyote will eat anything dead or alive.

The ecosystem is changing......
99% of hunters have some conservationists in them.
At the same time,we also don't want to lose hunting as recreation and food for the freezer.

There is supposed to be a predator/prey study coming out.
But I assume it will protect wolves at all cost. And will really do nothing to add insight to some of what I mentioned above.

The sad reality is....
More than likely if Elk numbers continue to drop in coming years. WDFW big plan will be to turn elk hunting there into permit draw hunting only.

Just some things to think about our current ecosystem

Wanted to add this....
You could kill every cougar in the state,and we would just become a wolf stronghold.
Until wolves and cougar are managed properly ,we will continue to see declines in ungulate herds.



« Last Edit: June 02, 2022, 05:05:42 AM by hunter399 »
Two birds in the Bush is always better than one in the hand-that way you can always go to the Bush and hunt another day .conservation=Better hunting.
Wrote by hunter399

Offline Special T

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Re: Cougar hunting proposal
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2022, 08:30:25 AM »
Thanks for the link comment added more tags!

Here is what we are up against the lack of knowledge in this persons statement is mind boggling!


"Why don't you reduce human hunting of elk until the population bounces back? Killing off a part of the ecosystem doesn't make sense. Cougars can never do as much damage as advanced hunters who use technology. Please compare how many humans kill off elk vs cougars in the area".

It's pretty obvious that antlerless hunts should be put on hold. I don't think any hunters want to destroy an ecosystem.
At the same time ungulate and predators need management to equal the playing field in order to keep a equal balance between ungulate and predator and humans.

I'm no expert on the Blues elk herd.
Wolves are not being managed in Washington. I'm a firm believer that these cougar are trying to adapt to a new ecosystem. Cougar was top predator ,not any more.
A pecking order so to speak.
What happens when you kill A lot of coyote in area?
The next year they have bigger litters,and even more coyote appear.
This is just a thought......
Cougar are adapteing by breeding more,bigger litters.
Also if a cougar kills an Elk,eats,covers the kill.
Then other predators find that and eat it.
Will cause that cougar to kill another Elk.
Wolves and coyote will eat anything dead or alive.

The ecosystem is changing......
99% of hunters have some conservationists in them.
At the same time,we also don't want to lose hunting as recreation and food for the freezer.

There is supposed to be a predator/prey study coming out.
But I assume it will protect wolves at all cost. And will really do nothing to add insight to some of what I mentioned above.

The sad reality is....
More than likely if Elk numbers continue to drop in coming years. WDFW big plan will be to turn elk hunting there into permit draw hunting only.

Just some things to think about our current ecosystem

Wanted to add this....
You could kill every cougar in the state,and we would just become a wolf stronghold.
Until wolves and cougar are managed properly ,we will continue to see declines in ungulate herds.

ID has a great long term predator prey study that addresses many of the things you talk about. The biggest take away is that 1 cats do more of the killing. this is because sight predators like wolves push them into ambush areas, and then wolves and bears steal more of the kills. In this state each species are managed independent of each other. This is how they hide the obvious cause and effect.
In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

Confucius

Offline buckfvr

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Re: Cougar hunting proposal
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2022, 09:43:21 AM »
Thanks for the link comment added more tags!

Here is what we are up against the lack of knowledge in this persons statement is mind boggling!


"Why don't you reduce human hunting of elk until the population bounces back? Killing off a part of the ecosystem doesn't make sense. Cougars can never do as much damage as advanced hunters who use technology. Please compare how many humans kill off elk vs cougars in the area".

It's pretty obvious that antlerless hunts should be put on hold. I don't think any hunters want to destroy an ecosystem.
At the same time ungulate and predators need management to equal the playing field in order to keep a equal balance between ungulate and predator and humans.

I'm no expert on the Blues elk herd.
Wolves are not being managed in Washington. I'm a firm believer that these cougar are trying to adapt to a new ecosystem. Cougar was top predator ,not any more.
A pecking order so to speak.
What happens when you kill A lot of coyote in area?
The next year they have bigger litters,and even more coyote appear.
This is just a thought......
Cougar are adapteing by breeding more,bigger litters.
Also if a cougar kills an Elk,eats,covers the kill.
Then other predators find that and eat it.
Will cause that cougar to kill another Elk.
Wolves and coyote will eat anything dead or alive.

The ecosystem is changing......
99% of hunters have some conservationists in them.
At the same time,we also don't want to lose hunting as recreation and food for the freezer.

There is supposed to be a predator/prey study coming out.
But I assume it will protect wolves at all cost. And will really do nothing to add insight to some of what I mentioned above.

The sad reality is....
More than likely if Elk numbers continue to drop in coming years. WDFW big plan will be to turn elk hunting there into permit draw hunting only.

Just some things to think about our current ecosystem

Wanted to add this....
You could kill every cougar in the state,and we would just become a wolf stronghold.
Until wolves and cougar are managed properly ,we will continue to see declines in ungulate herds.

I do not believe cougar are trying to adapt to a "new ecosystem".  Within the ecosystem, I believe biotic components, namely predator/prey animals, are trying to adjust to changes brought on by the addition of the wolf.

Please share your source of study information about coyotes, and cougar adapting to breed "more, bigger litters".

I think bringing back bait/hounds may as well be in outer space as there doesn't seem to be a possibility of a new vote on those measures let alone enough support to change the outcome in a state with an ever growing population that is either indifferent to or against hunting.

Even if quotas and seasons were drastically changed, WITH OUT hounds, not much will change.  Just because there could be more opportunity doesn't mean change is imminent.  Last year or 2 was covid, this next season the price of fuel will probably have a greater effect than covid. 

Bears, wolves, and cougars are all the problem, and they simply are not managed properly by wdfw because of their political nature.



Online Pathfinder101

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Re: Cougar hunting proposal
« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2022, 12:23:30 PM »
Honest question, if they took away limits completely on cougar, how many more cats would be killed? What is the percentage of hunters that have even seen one cat in the past 5 years, 10 years?? Iíve spent tons of hours glassing in the blues, sitting for hours watching hill sides, never saw a cat over there. I know we have a big cat problem, but allowing one more cate to be killed will save the elk and deer? Hell, Iíd like to see one cat per 100 hunters get killed. Iíll comment, but itís not even a band aid on a open wound thatís pumping blood. If The WDFW really want to help, theyíd push for changing hounds and baiting laws.
Won't make a huge difference, but I do know a few retired guys that kill as many per year as they're allowed.  Calling, tracking... etc...  They spend significant time at it and get tags in as many states as they can get to.  Won't matter much, but every cat dead = 20-40 deer/elk calves that get to live....
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.  That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

 


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