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Author Topic: Domestic sheep and goats prohibited…  (Read 5728 times)

Offline Stein

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Re: Domestic sheep and goats prohibited…
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2023, 10:25:24 PM »
What percentage of cases do they chase down to the origin?  Just because something is not documented doesn't mean it doesn't happen.  We know they are getting it from somewhere and there are only a few options.

I've never been documented in giving the flu or a cold to anyone, or from getting it from anyone.

Offline LDennis24

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Re: Domestic sheep and goats prohibited…
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2023, 05:19:23 PM »
What percentage of cases do they chase down to the origin?  Just because something is not documented doesn't mean it doesn't happen.  We know they are getting it from somewhere and there are only a few options.

I've never been documented in giving the flu or a cold to anyone, or from getting it from anyone.

This is exactly the issue. Here's a snippet from a USDA site on goats and Movi:

Prevalence in domestic goats is less understood and studies differ. An unpublished Alaskan study detected M. ovipneumoniae in 4/32 domestic goat premises (12%), and in 12/485 domestic goats (2.5%), while a Washington study sampled 84 goats from 16 premises and detected M. ovipneumoniae in 7/16 (44%) premises (individual animal results not reported). An unpublished study, sampling goats on pack goat premises in 12 states, found M. ovipneumoniae in 14/83 premises (17%) and 46/571 of all goats sampled (8%), with significantly higher prevalence in those less than 1 year of age. An ongoing USDA NAHMS national study will report M. ovipneumoniae prevalence in U.S. domestic goats.

Offline huntnnw

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Re: Domestic sheep and goats prohibited…
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2023, 06:59:21 AM »
All the pack goat people we know test yearly only if new goats brought in. If your herd is not exposed to new animals then no testing needed. Lot of mis-information out there on movi and goats. They just rather blanket it all and not read the science that’s there. Bighorn sheep can catch movi just because a goat was in the area. There has to be physical touching face to face

Sorry but I have to say this is not accurate information. Movi is transmissible from sneezing and any fluid secretions from animal to animal. So if your animal sneezes a wad of snot onto a rock and less than an hour later a sheep happens by and sniffs that fluid they can get the virus. And it has been found in pack goats before. And also moose and mule deer. It's just not nearly as common.
Incorrect, Movi is transferred nose to nose contact in almost all cases of transmission a very less likely way of transmission is coughing and sneezing with suspended particles in the air. Movi is not environmentally stable which means a infected sheep or goat licks a salt block for instance and then a healthu sheep 30 min later comes along is not going to catch movi.

Offline Knocker of rocks

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Re: Domestic sheep and goats prohibited…
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2023, 07:48:20 AM »
A mask mandate

Offline LDennis24

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Re: Domestic sheep and goats prohibited…
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2023, 12:03:42 PM »
All the pack goat people we know test yearly only if new goats brought in. If your herd is not exposed to new animals then no testing needed. Lot of mis-information out there on movi and goats. They just rather blanket it all and not read the science that’s there. Bighorn sheep can catch movi just because a goat was in the area. There has to be physical touching face to face

Sorry but I have to say this is not accurate information. Movi is transmissible from sneezing and any fluid secretions from animal to animal. So if your animal sneezes a wad of snot onto a rock and less than an hour later a sheep happens by and sniffs that fluid they can get the virus. And it has been found in pack goats before. And also moose and mule deer. It's just not nearly as common.
Incorrect, Movi is transferred nose to nose contact in almost all cases of transmission a very less likely way of transmission is coughing and sneezing with suspended particles in the air. Movi is not environmentally stable which means a infected sheep or goat licks a salt block for instance and then a healthu sheep 30 min later comes along is not going to catch movi.

🤔 You said incorrect but then you said it's transmitted by nasal droplets so what's incorrect? Even if it's not likely or not common, it still can happen. And most studies if not all of them, admit they don't know exactly how it's spreading. Any kind of virus that is in your nasal cavity and saliva is transmissible through that fluid in all forms. I challenge anyone to find anything stating a nasal virus isn't transmissible through nasal fluid. Even if it's less common. It's possible.

Offline Platensek-po

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Re: Domestic sheep and goats prohibited…
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2023, 01:51:47 PM »
For me it seems like a no brained. Our sheep and goat populations need to be protected. I’m sorry for the pack goat dudes but I do agree with this ban. If the possibility of infection exists they have to be banned.
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Offline actionshooter

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Re: Domestic sheep and goats prohibited…
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2023, 08:09:41 PM »
What percentage of cases do they chase down to the origin?  Just because something is not documented doesn't mean it doesn't happen.  We know they are getting it from somewhere and there are only a few options.

I've never been documented in giving the flu or a cold to anyone, or from getting it from anyone.
Most cases in wild sheep have been attributed to domestic sheep grazing in wild lands.

 I can't argue that a "better safe than sorry" approach isn't probably the best for our wild sheep and goats, my biggest fear is that after they close the lands listed, a statewide ban is next..... and yes the WDFW had already discussed it.

Offline cem3434

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Re: Domestic sheep and goats prohibited…
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2023, 08:28:44 PM »
Let people use e-bikes instead of goats then….. :peep:

Did you hear about that new case of pneumonia that broke out that in wild sheep that the science shows was caused by e-bikes?   :bash:
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Offline huntnnw

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Re: Domestic sheep and goats prohibited…
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2023, 11:20:02 PM »
whats more harmful to this state and its wildlife some goats and sheep or our WDFW and commission. probably what you should be asking

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Domestic sheep and goats prohibited…
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2023, 05:14:43 AM »
Let people use e-bikes instead of goats then….. :peep:

Did you hear about that new case of pneumonia that broke out that in wild sheep that the science shows was caused by e-bikes?   :bash:
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Offline Ironhead

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Re: Domestic sheep and goats prohibited…
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2023, 06:37:28 AM »
Are all domestic goats and sheep that live in Bighorn country tested? Most of the NCW Bighorn Sheep herds live in close proximity to rural ranches. Do these domestic herds get tested too?
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Offline Platensek-po

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Re: Domestic sheep and goats prohibited…
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2023, 10:21:18 AM »
whats more harmful to this state and its wildlife some goats and sheep or our WDFW and commission. probably what you should be asking

Or it could be both? Why does it have to be either or?
“Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.”

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Offline skagitsteel

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Re: Domestic sheep and goats prohibited…
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2023, 01:50:08 PM »
There is a lot of misinformation about Movi and wild sheep and a lot that we don't know yet.  What we know is almost every single sheep die off is traced back to free range domestic sheep. There has not been one documented case of a sheep die off from a goat that I know of.  Goats can carry Movi, however there are different strains, domestic goat movi is not the same think as domestic sheep movi. A study was done with a wild sheep penned with movi positive domestic goats and that sheep did contract movi from nose to nose contact with the goats, however the wild sheep was 100% healthy and not affected by the goat movi.  There are also herds of wild sheep that have been movi positive and are not dying off.  Mule deer, mountain goats, caribou have all been found to carry movi.  Wild sheep have turned up in Alaska in recent years with Movi, hundreds of miles into the wilderness with zero chance of exposure to a domestic sheep or goat.  Unfortunately goats get lumped in with domestic sheep in these bans and there is a huge difference in the risk levels.  I have run pack goats for around 6 years, I did a lot of research before getting them because I was concerned they could pose a threat to wild sheep. My herd and many others are small and do not have goats coming and going from random places, in fact it is extremely rare in small herds for any of the goats to carry movi.  It is most often found in large commercial herds when there may be 1000 or more animals.  If you have ever hunted with pack goats you know they are like a dog, their worst nightmare is to be separated from their owner, they are very clingy.  Under direct control at all ties it is impossible for them to make nose to nose contact with a wild sheep.  I am not against precautions, testing, ect.. but the bans to include packgoats is BS in my opinion. 

Offline LDennis24

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Re: Domestic sheep and goats prohibited…
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2023, 09:52:41 AM »
Sorry Skagit but your statements are simply not true. It is the exact same disease in goats and sheep. Not a different strain because they are different species. Goats and sheep share the exact same diseases and they are readily transmissible. Funny how the people who have pack goats argue in favor of using them by spreading misinformation. The main reason for tracing back to free range domestic sheep is because not many people are free ranging domestic goats.

Offline Oldguy

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Re: Domestic sheep and goats prohibited…
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2023, 10:28:52 AM »
I think it was in the 1970's, I was on the opposite side of the Columbia River from the Clockum looking for ducks and saw some animals on the Clockum side with light colored rumps. Launched my trusty 8 foot boat and headed through the fog to have a closer look and when I got close, it turned out they were Big Horn Mountain Sheep. They all eventually died out supposedly due to horm worm disease that was in the soil.

 


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