Electric trucks ? No thank you

[grizzlyadams]

The only thing polarizing about this topic is a totalitarian, now communist government trying to take away your freedom to choose. Buy what you want but when they try to force you that's where I, and tens of millions draw the line. They have an agenda and have shown the past few years their intentions are evil. There is no such thing as zero foot print and the forced child labor to mine the lithium in other countries is documented and we'll known but they don't want you to know about that as long as you're forced to buy what the lawmakers have invested in to enrich themselves.

I guess ignorance really is bliss

Sent from my SM-G977U using Tapatalk

[salmosalar]

There are a ton of 2013 - 2018 Ford Focus EVs for sale! 


Battery life = between 3-5 years
Battery Replacement costs = between $23,559 and $23,690. Labor costs are estimated between $502 and $633 while parts are priced between $23,057 and $23,057.

 

There are a lot of scary articles out there like the Florida family buying a Focus with a bad battery.  When you look at the actual data though you can see that most of the stories are individual anecdotes and that they don't really tell the story. Modern news stories are designed to get an emotional response rather than educate the reader. A news story that gets people angry has become the norm. These stories tend to feed the ant-electric vehicle narrative and are circulated around the same news sources that cater to and create the anti-electric crowd. Raw data is boring. The raw data, in my opinion, shows that for the majority of people electric vehicles or hybrid vehicles are excellent choices. For others, they are poor choices. A data driven approach shows that battery life is rarely the reason that the vehicle would be a bad choice.

Ford sold about 9,000 Ford Focus EV's in the US in the 2013-2018 timeframe. With that many in the US, I doubt that there are truly that many used Focus EV's for sale. I mean, I guess that here could be as many as 9,000 or so.  That particular model has a preposterously expensive battery to replace. The prices quoted above for that model are about twice what an average Tesla battery replacement would cost. It is really is not indicative of the average or normal costs of short range EV replacement batteries. For instance, replacement Leaf batteries are far less expensive. Due to the fact that so few Ford Focus' were sold, refurbished batteries are very expensive for that model. Even the refurbished ones go for 14-15K. It is a matter of supply and demand/ economy of scale. Of all the EV's the ford Focus may be the biggest outlier when considering battery life and value. It is not at all representative of the norm for EV's. Personally,  I certainly would not buy a Focus EV from that time period unless something changed with regards to the cost of battery replacement. I may consider a Leaf since I have a short commute and refurbished/ used batteries are more available. For people who commute a long way, neither car ever would have been practical.

Replacement battery costs vary a lot. EV Batteries are federally mandated to be warranted for 8 yrs/ 100,000 miles. So 8/100K is the minimum. Some model warranties exceed the mandated timeframes. The Rivian is warrantied to 175,000 mi. Batteries have improved in longevity and range as the competitive nature of the market has driven advancements in the technology. The majority (over 98%)of actual EV battery replacements that have occurred on EV's that were under warranty. Most non-warranted replacement are from the older battery types, like the 2013-2018 focus'. The majority of EV's are relatively new so most are still under warranty. After all, only 9,000 of those Ford Focus EV's were even sold in US. If you buy an EV that is 7 yrs old, you may want to factor the warranty in but chances are you will not need to replace it. Also understand that battery replacement costs will likely be lower for cars that have sold more that the Ford Focus' 9,000. You are more likely able to get refurbished batteries. Refurbished batteries are becoming more available  as that market is beginning to develop. The market for the replacement batteries will continue to drive it's development. Go free market! 

[jackelope]

I’m surprised nobody has mentioned the issue with battery disposal.

They’re going back to be remanufactured. Just like reman engines and transmissions.

[LDennis24]

Yeah, can any of the folks who support the EV nonsense explain to me how the battery survives in temperatures above 85 degrees? I would like you to post actual studies or evidence of something showing that its going to work. Because lithium ion and lithium iron batteries are meant to stay below 85 degrees during operation if I recall correctly. Kind of confusing that they would push in that direction with summers getting hotter every year due to Al Gore causing global warming... 

[jackelope]

There are a ton of 2013 - 2018 Ford Focus EVs for sale! 


Battery life = between 3-5 years
Battery Replacement costs = between $23,559 and $23,690. Labor costs are estimated between $502 and $633 while parts are priced between $23,057 and $23,057.

 

Been with Ford over 10 years now. The only Focus EV battery I’ve ever replaced was due to an accident. It was damaged in a crash. I’m not sure who came up with those numbers as far as battery life.  I can’t back that up with what I’ve seen.  With that said, there are not many Focus EV’s around.

I did replace a Mach E battery a few months ago. The dead no profit cost of the battery was $32k. We couldn’t mark it up but if we could, at Ford warranty parts markup, it would have been around $65k.

[LDennis24]

There are a ton of 2013 - 2018 Ford Focus EVs for sale! 


Battery life = between 3-5 years
Battery Replacement costs = between $23,559 and $23,690. Labor costs are estimated between $502 and $633 while parts are priced between $23,057 and $23,057.

 

Been with Ford over 10 years now. The only Focus EV battery I’ve ever replaced was due to an accident. It was damaged in a crash. I’m not sure who came up with those numbers as far as battery life.  I can’t back that up with what I’ve seen.  With that said, there are not many Focus EV’s around.

I did replace a Mach E battery a few months ago. The dead no profit cost of the battery was $32k. We couldn’t mark it up but if we could, at Ford warranty parts markup, it would have been around $65k.

Was there any refurbished batteries available? What was the mileage of that vehicle? Shouldn't the warranty have covered it that Salmo mentioned?

[jackelope]

Yeah, can any of the folks who support the EV nonsense explain to me how the battery survives in temperatures above 85 degrees? I would like you to post actual studies or evidence of something showing that its going to work. Because lithium ion and lithium iron batteries are meant to stay below 85 degrees during operation if I recall correctly. Kind of confusing that they would push in that direction with summers getting hotter every year due to Al Gore causing global warming... 

I’m not here to support the EV nonsense at all, but the Ford high voltage battery systems have their own cooling systems. Fans and coolant. Just like a regular engine.

[LDennis24]

Yeah, can any of the folks who support the EV nonsense explain to me how the battery survives in temperatures above 85 degrees? I would like you to post actual studies or evidence of something showing that its going to work. Because lithium ion and lithium iron batteries are meant to stay below 85 degrees during operation if I recall correctly. Kind of confusing that they would push in that direction with summers getting hotter every year due to Al Gore causing global warming... 

I’m not here to support the EV nonsense at all, but the Ford high voltage battery systems have their own cooling systems. Fans and coolant. Just like a regular engine.

But is that coolant system running while charging the vehicle? What happens to the battery life during those times? What kills batteries is temperature and over and under charging. Which means that if you dont completely charge your battery to the recommend specs every time you are degrading it's life and who has time to always wait several hrs to fully charge a battery on a trip?

[LDennis24]

I'm only asking in response to you Jackelope because you work in the field.

[jackelope]

Yeah, can any of the folks who support the EV nonsense explain to me how the battery survives in temperatures above 85 degrees? I would like you to post actual studies or evidence of something showing that its going to work. Because lithium ion and lithium iron batteries are meant to stay below 85 degrees during operation if I recall correctly. Kind of confusing that they would push in that direction with summers getting hotter every year due to Al Gore causing global warming... 

I’m not here to support the EV nonsense at all, but the Ford high voltage battery systems have their own cooling systems. Fans and coolant. Just like a regular engine.

But is that coolant system running while charging the vehicle? What happens to the battery life during those times? What kills batteries is temperature and over and under charging. Which means that if you dont completely charge your battery to the recommend specs every time you are degrading it's life and who has time to always wait several hrs to fully charge a battery on a trip?

This is over my head from a knowledge standpoint. I’m not an engineer and I’m not up to snuff on my super high tech ev car battery knowledge. I know they’re different from your typical Duracell AA battery. I’ll leave that up to the pros.

As far as charging, it doesn’t take “several hours” to charge a battery on road trips if you plan your trip and hit the public(not sure if that’s the right word) level 3 chargers along the way. Those big chargers will charge your car in under an hour.  I thought that was pretty common knowledge.

I guess with that said, using a fully electric vehicle on a road trip is a dumb idea. If someone is actually doing that, they hopefully have done their homework and hopefully know and fully understand the downfalls at this point in time to road tripping in an EV.

Folks I’ve talked to at work usually have another vehicle with a traditional engine for road trips or they rent cars. That seems to be the common response.

[LDennis24]

Right, it's pretty easy to find a high speed charging location in major cities. But I still don't get how the temperature doesn't kill them. 

[jackelope]

Right, it's pretty easy to find a high speed charging location in major cities. But I still don't get how the temperature doesn't kill them. 

Seems to be more a hit to the range than a battery life thing. I’ll assume it’s a technology thing.
68-85 degrees is the sweet spot according to the googler.

[Gettin Birdie]

 

https://www.westernjournal.com/town-falls-back-diesel-fleet-none-electric-buses-work/

I do think Electric is a good idea, has it's place and needs more development, but it's not a one size fits all like some people wanna make it, either gas or electric.  I personally would never own one because it's not economical for me to do so, rural lifestyle. 

[CP]

Yeah, can any of the folks who support the EV nonsense explain to me how the battery survives in temperatures above 85 degrees? I would like you to post actual studies or evidence of something showing that its going to work. Because lithium ion and lithium iron batteries are meant to stay below 85 degrees during operation if I recall correctly. Kind of confusing that they would push in that direction with summers getting hotter every year due to Al Gore causing global warming... 

Not to promote nonsense, but here are my observations from my actual study of operating one, for what they are worth.  Non-scientific study:

Finding a working charger is not easy.  I wouldn’t bet on getting home on by finding a recharge.

Batteries work great at 85 degrees.  They get much hotter under high amp draw.  I actually get better range and performance when its hot out. 

Performance drops when its cold.  I notice a distinct drop in hp and range when it’s below 40 degrees or so.

Performance drops as the battery level drops.  But range increases.  I get more range on the 2nd half of a charge than I get on the top half, but the 0 to 30mph time isn’t as impressive.

It does not degrade the battery to give them a partial charge.  They are supposed to last longer when the charge is kept between 20% and 80%.  And the last 20% of the charge takes the most time.  I haven’t noticed any change in performance or range after 2 years of operation.

Water crossings are scary.


What’s the point of your questions?  Thinking of buying one?

[salmosalar]

Yeah, can any of the folks who support the EV nonsense explain to me how the battery survives in temperatures above 85 degrees? I would like you to post actual studies or evidence of something showing that its going to work. Because lithium ion and lithium iron batteries are meant to stay below 85 degrees during operation if I recall correctly. Kind of confusing that they would push in that direction with summers getting hotter every year due to Al Gore causing global warming... 

I’m not here to support the EV nonsense at all, but the Ford high voltage battery systems have their own cooling systems. Fans and coolant. Just like a regular engine.

But is that coolant system running while charging the vehicle? What happens to the battery life during those times? What kills batteries is temperature and over and under charging. Which means that if you dont completely charge your battery to the recommend specs every time you are degrading it's life and who has time to always wait several hrs to fully charge a battery on a trip?

This is over my head from a knowledge standpoint. I’m not an engineer and I’m not up to snuff on my super high tech ev car battery knowledge. I know they’re different from your typical Duracell AA battery. I’ll leave that up to the pros.

As far as charging, it doesn’t take “several hours” to charge a battery on road trips if you plan your trip and hit the public(not sure if that’s the right word) level 3 chargers along the way. Those big chargers will charge your car in under an hour.  I thought that was pretty common knowledge.

I guess with that said, using a fully electric vehicle on a road trip is a dumb idea. If someone is actually doing that, they hopefully have done their homework and hopefully know and fully understand the downfalls at this point in time to road tripping in an EV.

Folks I’ve talked to at work usually have another vehicle with a traditional engine for road trips or they rent cars. That seems to be the common response.

The issue is that here are constant scare articles published about EV's. People actually think things like battery lives are 3-5 years or that it takes 3 hours to charge a battery. Their was a meme that I saw that claimed that if you got stuck in a traffic jam in a tesla in the cold it was common to run out of battery by running your heater and then you'd need your car towed. People believe these things because they really want to believe them. They don't really realize that an EV can run a heater on a charge a hell of a lot longer than a ICE vehicle can idle on a tank of gas. In my opinion most of the nonsense that I see is in the form of misinformation regarding EV's shortcomings like that meme. Things like that they catch fire all the time when they actually catch fire less than ICE vehicles equipped with a tank of with a flammable liquid or that EV owners spend a lot of time charging their car when most spend far less time since their car charges at night at home.

I don't think that I'd take an EV for a road trip across the country but I would take one to Portland from Bellingham.  I'd probably feel comfortable driving either coast. We have charging stations within 1 mile of my house in Bellingham and there are stations all down I-5. Honestly, we never use them because the one car that my family owns with an electric motor is a hybrid and it's charged up every nigh after work. I actually do not think we've ever charged at a public charging station. I have  ridden in EV's up and down the Puget Sound in other people cars for kids soccer and such and charging has never been an issue. I've been in Teslas mostly though and range isn't much of an issue for rides up and down I-5 either so we only ever stopped to charge a couple of times. I believe that he Teslas may even tell you where chargers are located on the screen.

EV's are not particularly good choices for rural residents at this point. If I lived in a rural location, it would not be my choice. The thing is that the majority of Americans don't live in rural areas. I'm quite sure the next vehicle that I buy will have an electric motor be it a full EV or a hybrid. The last we bought is a plug-in hybrid. It's a remarkable vehicle and we rarely buy gas. It may be a while before I do given how short my commute is. No matter what the energy savings may be or how much nicer the vehicle may be it's hard to compete with my present car payment of $0.00/ mo.

I am still quite interested to see if used gas vehicles become less expensive as time goes on and EV's become more prevalent. I wonder if in 10 years those people who don't want to use an EV will be able to buy really nice used ICE vehicles for far less than they can now.