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Author Topic: Battery system for emergency well power  (Read 2051 times)

Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2024, 08:55:44 AM »
interesting discussion. I am in the same boat, trying to figure how to power my well pumps when the power goes out.

Re. Reidus's comment: I have a pump in the well that is about 40 amps, that feeds a cistern that has a 35 amp pump that feeds the line to the house. That was about as small as I could go and still meet the needs of the house. I was very surprised the pump had to be so big...

As for power requirements... there is something... I think it is called "armature lock" amperage that defines how large the generator needs to be. That is, as I understand it, the power required to start the motion of the pump. It is significantly higher than the run amperage.

I have thought of a gasoline generator as others suggested. The "new" gas has a habit of killing carburetors. so, for me that is out.

Battery backup with solar or line voltage to keep them charged is an interesting thought. but, I keep thinking, what if power is out for a week... (I worry too much).

I keep coming back to a propane (no natural gas where we are at) as it seems the best option for a no touch system.

My house and pumps are on different feeds also.... so, one or two generators becomes the question... or run a separate gas line to separate  generators or one large generator and separate out the power feeds.

check and see, many of the pumps are 3 phase and are electronically converted. The generator signal has to be very clean from what I understand, or it will take out the electronics.

IF  you do go with a propane system, some propane companies give a discount for a complete fill if you have a 1000 gallon tank. It doesn't matter how much it takes to top off the tank, you still get the discount. So check that out as well. An above ground rental is much cheaper that a buried, purchased tank. So...

I will keep watching this thread...

I have similar setup, electrician said to move well circuit to its own separate breaker panel next to meter so it and house panel can connect to one generator via one or two transfer switches.
Total cost for system was $20k :-0
Holding off for now.  I have a storage tank running a supplimental 12V pump off that to keep pressure may be better idea. 

Offline andersonjk4

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Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2024, 08:56:38 AM »
Take a look at the EcoFlow Delta Ultra.  Or just a delta Pro.  Iím looking to go ultra with two batteries and a smart home panel and run the house.  Solar I put and generator charging too.  Ultra isnít cheap but itís cheaper than a generac auto start for me.

 :yeah:

And Home Depot has them onsale today

https://www.homedepot.com/p/EcoFlow-3600W-Output-7200W-Peak-Push-Button-Start-Battery-Generator-DELTA-Pro-w-LFP-Battery-Fast-Charging-Home-Camping-RVs-DELTAPro-US/318689313

Offline Reidus

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Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2024, 01:58:02 PM »
If you use a soft start or vfd your peak draw of your pump will be approximately the same as the FLA.

A 12v washdown pump for a boat will do 4-5gpm, enough to run 1 appliance...maybe 2 at 50-60psi. It already has a pressure switch and will turn on and off based on pressure. Max draw of 10A. With 2 100ah lead acid batteries figure 100ah of available power means a minimum of 10 hours of solid runtime but most likely more. So for $200 for a pump, some plumbing parts, a 100gal tank, and 2 deep cycle batteries, you'd probably be good for a couple days.

Offline b0bbyg

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Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2024, 02:00:19 PM »
Take a look at the EcoFlow Delta Ultra.  Or just a delta Pro.  Iím looking to go ultra with two batteries and a smart home panel and run the house.  Solar I put and generator charging too.  Ultra isnít cheap but itís cheaper than a generac auto start for me.

 :yeah:

And Home Depot has them onsale today

https://www.homedepot.com/p/EcoFlow-3600W-Output-7200W-Peak-Push-Button-Start-Battery-Generator-DELTA-Pro-w-LFP-Battery-Fast-Charging-Home-Camping-RVs-DELTAPro-US/318689313

Weight is not too horrible, think I could drag that where needed.   :chuckle:
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Do not say, Why were the old days better than these? For it is not wise to ask such questions.
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Offline huntinguy

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Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2024, 05:30:12 AM »
If you use a soft start or vfd your peak draw of your pump will be approximately the same as the FLA.

A 12v washdown pump for a boat will do 4-5gpm, enough to run 1 appliance...maybe 2 at 50-60psi. It already has a pressure switch and will turn on and off based on pressure. Max draw of 10A. With 2 100ah lead acid batteries figure 100ah of available power means a minimum of 10 hours of solid runtime but most likely more. So for $200 for a pump, some plumbing parts, a 100gal tank, and 2 deep cycle batteries, you'd probably be good for a couple days.

interesting... good information there. thank you.
in my case, I have a draw line in my cistern for the fire department... I could pull from that and bypass my main pump...

Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2024, 06:11:34 AM »
Check the pump- many of the 12V arenít designed to have to suck from anything / need tank outlet at pump level or higher .

Offline Zardoz

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Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2024, 09:17:00 PM »
I'm looking at this from a different perspective.   :twocents:   I see it as two different things, home power and well power. The rule of 3's is always on my mind. You can last 3 minutes without oxygen, 3 days without water, 3 weeks without food. What are you going to do if/when you run out of fuel? Solar? Maybe, if you can afford the batteries and solar system, I can't.  Genny for the house, and a hand pump for the well. The "Simple Pump" has a solar upgrade, that I'm saving for. But with the hand pump, already installed, I can pressurize the house for my basic water needs. The solar upgrade will provide all my water needs. Just a different option to think about.  And,...don't forget about your septic system. I'm working on a hand pump system for that.  YMMV.

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Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2024, 09:25:52 PM »
Best is to install a holding tank on a hill so once filled you have a week or 2 reserve if sun doesnít come out or you run out of gas.   

Offline b0bbyg

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Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2024, 09:58:18 PM »
All situations are a little unique, that is why I enjoy this information sharing. Get to learn other ideas and needs, if I build something new I have more options and knowledge.
We are fortunate that septic is gravity system, so buckets to flush has that covered. I do have 300 gallon container in green house that is for stabilizing temps, but also emergency flushing/washing water.

Big thing is protecting against freeze when power drops.  Battery power might get me by but genny probably cheaper. Could use batteries to run small heater in a pinch. Truck has a big inverter, but don't think big enough to power well.

Lots of options and fun to look at potential solutions. Hoping I won't need one until next winter.
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Do not say, Why were the old days better than these? For it is not wise to ask such questions.
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Offline CP

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Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2024, 02:53:12 PM »
Hereís a DIY rolling power station that I put together to power tools when Iím out of range to an outlet.  And, it has kept my house partially powered during outages.

With a bigger inverter, it would run your pump.  Itís just a Harbor Freight cart with some LiFePO4 batteries, an inverter and a battery charger.  It even has head lights.  A lot cheaper than Ecoflow or similar power stations.

Offline b0bbyg

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Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2024, 10:08:50 PM »
Hereís a DIY rolling power station that I put together to power tools when Iím out of range to an outlet.  And, it has kept my house partially powered during outages.

With a bigger inverter, it would run your pump.  Itís just a Harbor Freight cart with some LiFePO4 batteries, an inverter and a battery charger.  It even has head lights.  A lot cheaper than Ecoflow or similar power stations.

Pretty cool :tup:
In God we trust, all others bring cash.

Do not say, Why were the old days better than these? For it is not wise to ask such questions.
Ecclesiastes 7 10

Offline Skyvalhunter

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Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2024, 06:57:32 AM »
Nice setup CP
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Offline elkaholic33

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Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2024, 08:24:32 AM »
As others have mentioned, starting a pump motor takes more power than just running the motor.

The inrush current for starting the motor can be -
6-10 times full load current for a starter (generator manufacturer's use 3-4x)
1.8-3 x for a soft start
1.4ish for a VFD.
 
Full load current on 240V motors-
3/4HP - 6.9 amps
1HP - 8 amps
1.5HP - 10 amps

Starting motors is tough on generators. 
7KW generator is 30A at 240V, 1 phase.

If you have a 1HP, deep well motor with 4x inrush, that would be 32 amps.  May not start on a 7KW generator with a starter.

This is all theory.  Anyone have practical use of a setup?  @huntinguy?

Offline CP

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Re: Battery system for emergency well power
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2024, 10:52:50 AM »
A ďSoft StarterĒ will reduce the inrush current.  You may already have one built into your control box.

 


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