collapse

Advertisement


Author Topic: February 12, 2024 Special Wildlife Committee Meeting agenda WDFS Bear & Cougar  (Read 5188 times)

Offline Skyvalhunter

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Explorer
  • ******
  • Join Date: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 15762
  • Location: Sky valley/Methow
So no decision was made on the Cougar and Bear season then?
The only man who never makes a mistake, is the man who never does anything!!
The further one goes into the wilderness, the greater the attraction of its lonely freedom.

Offline hunter399

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 7799
  • Location: In Your Hunting Spot
  • Groups: NRA RMEF
Just watched it myself.

My personal opinion.

It is the right decision to wait for science, sounds like the department is very close to finishing some up.
It is a concern that any rule changes at this time won't make the new regulations.
This only adds to confusion,and or hunting violations that should be legal under current rules.

I would like the department to verify what PMU 'S are over harvest guidelines for cougar.
What PMU are "hotspots" for depredations.
What PMU have the strongest base population of cougars in the state.

I'm not the type to disregard changes if it's a concern to sustainable population.
Taking hunter opportunity needs to have merit.

TRUE GRIT
You can't fake it,you can't make it, you can pretend you have it.
TRUE GRIT
Is something God gives you when you need it.

Offline hughjorgan

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2010
  • Posts: 2294
  • Location: Wilbur
So no decision was made on the Cougar and Bear season then?

They kicked the can down the road to their march meeting

Offline hughjorgan

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2010
  • Posts: 2294
  • Location: Wilbur
Just watched it myself.

My personal opinion.

It is the right decision to wait for science, sounds like the department is very close to finishing some up.
It is a concern that any rule changes at this time won't make the new regulations.
This only adds to confusion,and or hunting violations that should be legal under current rules.

I would like the department to verify what PMU 'S are over harvest guidelines for cougar.
What PMU are "hotspots" for depredations.
What PMU have the strongest base population of cougars in the state.

I'm not the type to disregard changes if it's a concern to sustainable population.
Taking hunter opportunity needs to have merit.

https://wawildlifefirst.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/October-25-2023-Petition-to-Amend-Bear-and-Cougar-Hunting-Rules.pdf

Page 14 of the petition will give you an idea…

Offline hunter399

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 7799
  • Location: In Your Hunting Spot
  • Groups: NRA RMEF
Just watched it myself.

My personal opinion.

It is the right decision to wait for science, sounds like the department is very close to finishing some up.
It is a concern that any rule changes at this time won't make the new regulations.
This only adds to confusion,and or hunting violations that should be legal under current rules.

I would like the department to verify what PMU 'S are over harvest guidelines for cougar.
What PMU are "hotspots" for depredations.
What PMU have the strongest base population of cougars in the state.

I'm not the type to disregard changes if it's a concern to sustainable population.
Taking hunter opportunity needs to have merit.

https://wawildlifefirst.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/October-25-2023-Petition-to-Amend-Bear-and-Cougar-Hunting-Rules.pdf

Page 14 of the petition will give you an idea…
I want the department to identify it.
Not the petition.

I will go look at page 14 ,just for kicks.

I went and took a look at page 14.
What is doesn't tell ya ,2018 there was 101 lethal removal.
2019 there was 112 lethal removal.
Two highest years for lethal removal.
Since 2019 on a statewide level , lethal removal has flatline on average about 63.5 cougars are removed. Has stayed between 63 and 65 since then.

Cougar season and structure is different than most game animals.
You have ......
Overall harvest,which includes everything.
Hunter harvest
Depredations/lethal removal
Other ,which I don't even know what "other" is.

Then within this structure.
You have .....
Public safety/livestock attacks
Very strong base population/weak base population based on PMU.
Then Hunter opportunity/conservation of cougars.

It's really complex compared to other game animals.
I do agree the petition does outline the "overharvest"
You are correct,based on WDFW percent of the population.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2024, 11:58:05 AM by hunter399 »
TRUE GRIT
You can't fake it,you can't make it, you can pretend you have it.
TRUE GRIT
Is something God gives you when you need it.

Offline hughjorgan

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2010
  • Posts: 2294
  • Location: Wilbur
The whole petition is based off the department numbers and the petitions interpretation that we are over harvesting based on WDFWs data.

Offline hughjorgan

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2010
  • Posts: 2294
  • Location: Wilbur
Just watched it myself.

My personal opinion.

It is the right decision to wait for science, sounds like the department is very close to finishing some up.
It is a concern that any rule changes at this time won't make the new regulations.
This only adds to confusion,and or hunting violations that should be legal under current rules.

I would like the department to verify what PMU 'S are over harvest guidelines for cougar.
What PMU are "hotspots" for depredations.
What PMU have the strongest base population of cougars in the state.

I'm not the type to disregard changes if it's a concern to sustainable population.
Taking hunter opportunity needs to have merit.

https://wawildlifefirst.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/October-25-2023-Petition-to-Amend-Bear-and-Cougar-Hunting-Rules.pdf

Page 14 of the petition will give you an idea…
I want the department to identify it.
Not the petition.

I will go look at page 14 ,just for kicks.

I went and took a look at page 14.
What is doesn't tell ya ,2018 there was 101 lethal removal.
2019 there was 112 lethal removal.
Two highest years for lethal removal.
Since 2019 on a statewide level , lethal removal has flatline on average about 63.5 cougars are removed. Has stayed between 63 and 65 since then.

From what I heard the biologists say in the Monday committee meeting they set the guidelines at 12-16 percent of cougars population based off the cougar total population which is estimated at 3600 with current estimates. They built in a buffer of about 9 percent for poaching, roadkill, depredation, etc. The bio said you can harvest 25 percent with out hurting the population. A quick number crunch shows we aren’t over that limit.

Offline hunter399

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 7799
  • Location: In Your Hunting Spot
  • Groups: NRA RMEF
Just watched it myself.

My personal opinion.

It is the right decision to wait for science, sounds like the department is very close to finishing some up.
It is a concern that any rule changes at this time won't make the new regulations.
This only adds to confusion,and or hunting violations that should be legal under current rules.

I would like the department to verify what PMU 'S are over harvest guidelines for cougar.
What PMU are "hotspots" for depredations.
What PMU have the strongest base population of cougars in the state.

I'm not the type to disregard changes if it's a concern to sustainable population.
Taking hunter opportunity needs to have merit.

https://wawildlifefirst.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/October-25-2023-Petition-to-Amend-Bear-and-Cougar-Hunting-Rules.pdf

Page 14 of the petition will give you an idea…
I want the department to identify it.
Not the petition.

I will go look at page 14 ,just for kicks.

I went and took a look at page 14.
What is doesn't tell ya ,2018 there was 101 lethal removal.
2019 there was 112 lethal removal.
Two highest years for lethal removal.
Since 2019 on a statewide level , lethal removal has flatline on average about 63.5 cougars are removed. Has stayed between 63 and 65 since then.

From what I heard the biologists say in the Monday committee meeting they set the guidelines at 12-16 percent of cougars population based off the cougar total population which is estimated at 3600 with current estimates. They built in a buffer of about 9 percent for poaching, roadkill, depredation, etc. The bio said you can harvest 25 percent with out hurting the population. A quick number crunch shows we aren’t over that limit.
That does sound correct to me.
I agree.
Idaho cougar harvest easily doubled ours ,yet are still sustainable.
Idaho can also target male cats with hounds,which we can not.

I guess what I'm trying to say is.

PMU that fall under high depredations,that also have a high base population, strong habitat.
I really don't see the need for rule changes,since hunter harvest, depredations are flatline on a graph. I believe the season structure should be based on a PMU , Objective,needs,goals.
Population based percentage should be applied based on PMU.

But will say it will be interesting,to hear about this new science data.
How it will effect hunting seasons.
I do feel the commission made the right decision to wait for department science.
Going forward with that is best I think.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2024, 12:19:24 PM by hunter399 »
TRUE GRIT
You can't fake it,you can't make it, you can pretend you have it.
TRUE GRIT
Is something God gives you when you need it.

Offline Rainier10

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2010
  • Posts: 14844
  • Location: Over the edge
Lorna isn’t getting her way yet and is stomping her foot.

Please… cougars aren’t in danger in any PMU.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As of today almost all units are still open for cougar.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline Skyvalhunter

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Explorer
  • ******
  • Join Date: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 15762
  • Location: Sky valley/Methow
Holy cow I have never heard so much running around on this Cougar and Bear topic. Of all the commissioners Smith opens her mouth the most and you can tell the direction she wants. She sounds like she has trouble even getting a breath in. If they would just listen to their biologists. I am encourage to hear that Lindville reads the emails sent to the commission and that Commissioner Anderson stated the commission supports hunting. Smith also seems to want to bring in her so called experts to support her agenda.
The only man who never makes a mistake, is the man who never does anything!!
The further one goes into the wilderness, the greater the attraction of its lonely freedom.

Offline hunter399

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 7799
  • Location: In Your Hunting Spot
  • Groups: NRA RMEF
I'm to the point with the commission.
That if the department recommends it,then let's go that direction.
I'm just gonna agree with the department, really wish the commission will go that direction as well.
Department recommendations are best science available.
Let's try and make the best decision with conservation/Hunter opportunity, sustainable base population in mind.

Ya , whatever the department recommends.
I'm just gonna swallow it,and agree.
TRUE GRIT
You can't fake it,you can't make it, you can pretend you have it.
TRUE GRIT
Is something God gives you when you need it.

Offline dwils233

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2012
  • Posts: 505
  • Location: Spokane County

But will say it will be interesting,to hear about this new science data.
How it will effect hunting seasons.
I do feel the commission made the right decision to wait for department science.
Going forward with that is best I think.

Here's the thing though- they literally were asked to not accept this petition and just wait a couple months for pending science to inform their work and then integrate it into the GMP. Almost every org that weighed in against the petition said that; just wait and do it in the timline you've already got that will have new department data.

But they said screw that, accepted the petition and rushed in head first, because they wanted to do it NOW. Screwed up staff workloads, ignored potential new data outcomes, just wanted to barrel ahead with starting rulemaking.

Then they found out the time constraints to get it done by 2024 AND figured out that department science might be important to support their desired changes.

And now they are back to where plenty of hunters and orgs told them to be a few months ago: slow the eff down, follow the order of operations, and stop sidelining pending research.

They'll still going to use it to try and screw opportunity, but at least they could go through the damn motions right first
A promise made is a debt unpaid, and the trail has its own stern code

Offline TriggerMike

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 2025
  • Location: Central WA
Wow, Susewind just publicly called out the entire commission on trying to change the cougar seasons against the departments recommendations. Respect!

Offline Scruffy

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jul 2020
  • Posts: 243
  • Location: Darrington, & Aeneas Valley, WA
  • Groups: NRA, RMEF
I only seen the last hour of the meeting but why do I feel like I was raped.  They said there was a lot of work to be done to understand the science but they couldn't leave this year alone and take time to digest the science and come up with a plan.  Now they can close the season before it starts if too many conflict cougars are killed.  If they do that are they going to refund me the price of my tag.  And they cut the season by a month. :bash: :bash: :bash: What a disorganized bunch, they couldn't agree on the weather.
I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC

Offline hunter399

  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 7799
  • Location: In Your Hunting Spot
  • Groups: NRA RMEF
I only seen the last hour of the meeting but why do I feel like I was raped.  They said there was a lot of work to be done to understand the science but they couldn't leave this year alone and take time to digest the science and come up with a plan.  Now they can close the season before it starts if too many conflict cougars are killed.  If they do that are they going to refund me the price of my tag.  And they cut the season by a month. :bash: :bash: :bash: What a disorganized bunch, they couldn't agree on the weather.
I feel like that now, raped.
Just bought a cougar tag with a huge question mark for fall season.
Roll the dice I guess.
TRUE GRIT
You can't fake it,you can't make it, you can pretend you have it.
TRUE GRIT
Is something God gives you when you need it.

 


* Advertisement

* Recent Topics

2nd bear tag by E_daniels97
[Yesterday at 11:37:51 PM]


Beaver trapping opportunity near Randle by redi
[Yesterday at 11:32:20 PM]


COUGAR COMMENT TIME by Scruffy
[Yesterday at 10:46:07 PM]


Form 4 - Two Day Approval by 6haase6
[Yesterday at 10:28:58 PM]


Not a lot of love for Colorado wolves! by Dan-o
[Yesterday at 09:22:30 PM]


Travel Trailer Damage? by storyteller
[Yesterday at 09:07:22 PM]


18 year old daughter drew 204 quality deer by Jlittlebear31
[Yesterday at 08:50:37 PM]


Biscuits and Gravy? I'm your huckleberry.... :-) by JDArms1240
[Yesterday at 07:56:16 PM]


Mineral sites and bears by dilleytech
[Yesterday at 07:48:23 PM]


Muzzy Mission Quality!!! by blindluck
[Yesterday at 07:39:19 PM]


Blackhorn 209 by JasonG
[Yesterday at 07:29:19 PM]


Ryderwood Cow Tag by Sundance
[Yesterday at 05:11:15 PM]


Vancouver Lake worth it? (Shillapoo) by medic6
[Yesterday at 12:09:26 PM]


Summer Salmon by Dan-o
[Yesterday at 10:41:08 AM]


Washington State Rocky Mountain Bighorn Raffle by GurrCentral
[Yesterday at 10:17:41 AM]


2024 Trips by 10mmg
[Yesterday at 09:54:40 AM]


1x Muzzleloader Scope by GWP
[Yesterday at 09:31:17 AM]


NW Mountain challenge by BLDtraLR
[Yesterday at 08:24:06 AM]


F’n rats by Boss .300 winmag
[Yesterday at 08:04:57 AM]


Bearpaw Season - Spring 2024 by nwwanderer
[Yesterday at 05:22:28 AM]

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal