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Author Topic: I like big guns...and I cannot lie  (Read 3953 times)

Offline b23

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2024, 01:31:03 PM »
Comparing a 375 HH to a 338 lapua is like comparing a john deer tractor to a corvette.  :twocents:

Ha!  That's fricken funny!!  :chuckle:

Offline BULLBLASTER

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2024, 02:01:03 PM »
Comparing a 375 HH to a 338 lapua is like comparing a john deer tractor to a corvette.  :twocents:

I guess my point is, I can't think of a single thing the .375 H&H is then better than the .338 (lapua or larger) at, except maybe carrying a 350 grain bullet.  Looking for someone to say "WRONG", but nobody does.

There are things that a tractor is better than a corvette at and vice versa.
not many sporter weight 338 lapuas out there. Certainly not as many as 375. Also no 338 lapua that has a mag capacity of 4 that fit in floorplate bottom metal.

To say it shorter they are 2 different beasts meant to complete 2 different tasks.

And again, a 375 is plenty shootable without a muzzle device. A lapua recoils drastically harder.
Dont confuse this with me saying that the HH is “better” than the lapua. Because for some tasks it is not. But if you were to hand me a win model 70 in 375 hh and any lapua and say “choose one and go hunt that brushy timber patch” there is zero chance i am taking the lapua. Had you said “take one and shoot an elk at 800 yards” zero chance i take the HH.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2024, 02:06:35 PM by BULLBLASTER »

Offline BULLBLASTER

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2024, 02:10:18 PM »
But i am a fan of 375 HH and think 338 lapuas are over rated.  :chuckle:

Offline Cougartail

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2024, 03:20:57 PM »
But i am a fan of 375 HH and think 338 lapuas are over rated.  :chuckle:

I agree! The 338 Lapuas seem like the caliber of people who have shortcomings in other areas. :chuckle:
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Offline pickardjw

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2024, 03:48:14 PM »
I want to rephrase my question a little.

Let’s say there are no laws in Africa, you can use whichever gun you wish.

Now let’s say you shoot a 270 grain bullet out of a 375 or a 270 grain from a 338 at 100 yards. Does one kill the buffalo better? Assume same bullet construction and velocity. Only difference is the diameter.

Are these projectiles performing with the same killing power? If one is better in my scenario, why?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The podcast below and sources cited within might help answer your question. Essentially, there's a point of diminishing returns with wound channel size after about 2.5". So if both bullets produce a would channel of at least that size, both are equally effective and neither "kills better".

https://open.spotify.com/episode/0ArrqfmzVT9IUkEHCbtGdP?si=c13ed667236543ff

Offline Okanagan

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #35 on: March 12, 2024, 08:38:19 AM »
A single factor not explicitly addressed in this thread is the difference in length of bullets of the same weight but different diameters.  Assuming the same or similar overall shapes and material, the smaller diameter bullet has to be longer to weigh the same as a larger diameter bullet.  This is part of the BC calculation.  Same weight in bigger diameter equals a shorter length bullet.

This length of the bullet mass behind the frontal area influences terminal performance, especially depth of penetration, though obviously impact velocity and any differences in hardness/softness bullet construction are also major factors.

All else being equal, the smaller diameter bullet is longer.  Factor that as you will.

Offline luvmystang67

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #36 on: March 12, 2024, 09:10:55 AM »
A single factor not explicitly addressed in this thread is the difference in length of bullets of the same weight but different diameters.  Assuming the same or similar overall shapes and material, the smaller diameter bullet has to be longer to weigh the same as a larger diameter bullet.  This is part of the BC calculation.  Same weight in bigger diameter equals a shorter length bullet.

This length of the bullet mass behind the frontal area influences terminal performance, especially depth of penetration, though obviously impact velocity and any differences in hardness/softness bullet construction are also major factors.

All else being equal, the smaller diameter bullet is longer.  Factor that as you will.

I guess this is the crux of the question.  If I'm using the exact same bullet construction, but one is a 270 grain 338 (long, skinny) and one is a 270 grain 375 (short and fat)... or heck, even a 300 grain bullet with the same features... is there ANY reason to preference the 375 over the 338.  The only compelling argument I've heard so far is on recoil.  Otherwise, the 338 is AT LEAST the same, but likely better. 

Basically, I was trying to ask... does a fatter bullet get you anything over a skinnier one, all else equal.  I kind of figured someone would chime in and talk about being hit by a cannonball versus an all lead pencil.  I haven't seen anyone making that argument.  So the only real argument so far is recoil, and that is pretty easily mitigated with a break.

You are right though, I just can find a good argument for "larger diameter is better" but plenty for "smaller diameter is better".  Heck, by this logic if we could fit a 270 grain bullet into a 6.5 at 2700 fps, it'd be the king of killers, with an SD of 2!

Offline Jason

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #37 on: March 12, 2024, 09:33:11 AM »
A single factor not explicitly addressed in this thread is the difference in length of bullets of the same weight but different diameters.  Assuming the same or similar overall shapes and material, the smaller diameter bullet has to be longer to weigh the same as a larger diameter bullet.  This is part of the BC calculation.  Same weight in bigger diameter equals a shorter length bullet.

This length of the bullet mass behind the frontal area influences terminal performance, especially depth of penetration, though obviously impact velocity and any differences in hardness/softness bullet construction are also major factors.

All else being equal, the smaller diameter bullet is longer.  Factor that as you will.

I guess this is the crux of the question.  If I'm using the exact same bullet construction, but one is a 270 grain 338 (long, skinny) and one is a 270 grain 375 (short and fat)... or heck, even a 300 grain bullet with the same features... is there ANY reason to preference the 375 over the 338.  The only compelling argument I've heard so far is on recoil.  Otherwise, the 338 is AT LEAST the same, but likely better. 

Basically, I was trying to ask... does a fatter bullet get you anything over a skinnier one, all else equal.  I kind of figured someone would chime in and talk about being hit by a cannonball versus an all lead pencil.  I haven't seen anyone making that argument.  So the only real argument so far is recoil, and that is pretty easily mitigated with a break.

You are right though, I just can find a good argument for "larger diameter is better" but plenty for "smaller diameter is better".  Heck, by this logic if we could fit a 270 grain bullet into a 6.5 at 2700 fps, it'd be the king of killers, with an SD of 2!
My assumption is you will get a larger wound channel with the 375 than the 338.

Offline Karl Blanchard

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #38 on: March 12, 2024, 09:43:08 AM »
Not necessarily.  Bore diameter does not correlate to size of wound channel. Bullet construction and impact velocity are the main factors in permanent wound channel size.
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Offline BULLBLASTER

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #39 on: March 12, 2024, 09:46:38 AM »
Bullet diameter has such a small impact on terminal ballistics that it is completely overshadowed by bullet construction. It just doesnt impact tissue damage to a noticeable level. .030 of bullet diameter would not be noticeable for given bullet construction.  :twocents:
Tissue damage is a product of bullet construction and speed. Speed meaning adequate speed for bullet upset.

Offline LDennis24

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #40 on: March 12, 2024, 09:55:16 AM »
Not necessarily.  Bore diameter does not correlate to size of wound channel. Bullet construction and impact velocity are the main factors in permanent wound channel size.

 :yeah:

Bullet shape will change that as well

Offline jrebel

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #41 on: March 12, 2024, 10:12:17 AM »
Other than WANTING a big bore....there is very little need for most folks to own one.  You can push really good bullets faster than ever now days and terminal performance is outstanding.  Take a 300 wm for example and push a 154 grain monolithic bullet at upwards of 3600-3700 fps and it will be enough to kill anything in North America.  The terminal performance of FAST and WELL CONSTRUCTED bullets creates a bubble effect, that disrupts vasculature like never seen before.  Big  heavy slow moving bullets penetrate well but don't have the same bubble effect in most cases.  Both will kill....but to your question, terminal performance is not decided by diameter near as much as it is by speed and bullet construction....as stated many times above. 


All that being said, I love big bore rifles.  I know.....I'm compensating for something because I love the .338 lapua.  The difference with me is I also love the new bullets that can pushed hard.  I'm not buying the .338 lapua to push 300 gain bullets at 2700 fps.  I'm buying it to push 175-260 grain bullets at well over 3000 fps.  Point being....if I had a 375, I would be looking to load 160-250 grain bullet to push is hard and fast with the intent of getting a flat shooting large bore.  It's a change in thought process that a lot of people are having a hard time with...including myself...but once you figure it out, it is awesome.   :tup:

 

Offline bearpaw

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2024, 10:43:39 AM »
Other than WANTING a big bore....there is very little need for most folks to own one.  You can push really good bullets faster than ever now days and terminal performance is outstanding.  Take a 300 wm for example and push a 154 grain monolithic bullet at upwards of 3600-3700 fps and it will be enough to kill anything in North America.  The terminal performance of FAST and WELL CONSTRUCTED bullets creates a bubble effect, that disrupts vasculature like never seen before.  Big  heavy slow moving bullets penetrate well but don't have the same bubble effect in most cases.  Both will kill....but to your question, terminal performance is not decided by diameter near as much as it is by speed and bullet construction....as stated many times above. 


All that being said, I love big bore rifles.  I know.....I'm compensating for something because I love the .338 lapua.  The difference with me is I also love the new bullets that can pushed hard.  I'm not buying the .338 lapua to push 300 gain bullets at 2700 fps.  I'm buying it to push 175-260 grain bullets at well over 3000 fps.  Point being....if I had a 375, I would be looking to load 160-250 grain bullet to push is hard and fast with the intent of getting a flat shooting large bore.  It's a change in thought process that a lot of people are having a hard time with...including myself...but once you figure it out, it is awesome.   :tup:

I use the same though process, I like fast flat shooting guns, my 340 Wtby pushes a 160 gr TTSX about 3500 fps which is very flat shooting out to 500. I think I could get 3600-3700 with the 338/378 but haven't looked into it yet. On the 338/378 I might have to step up to the next weight bullet to stabilize them, not sure until I try the 160's in it.

I get some hunters who just don't have good shooting rifles, we end up loaning guns quite often. Some hunters are afraid of the recoil in larger capacity cartridges so that is anther good reason to use lighter quality bullets. I have began trying the same with smaller standard calibers too just to make them more enjoyable for women and kids to shoot.

I loaded some 150 Barnes in 30/06 and they shoot nearly as fast as a 300 magnum with a 180. I bought some 110 and 130 TTSX to try reloading this summer in the 308 and 30/06. If they are accurate, I will be able to hand a hunter a 308 that will shoot 3200ish muzzle velocity and be near laser flat out to 300 yards, as far as I want most average hunters shooting.



Getting back to the OP, the 375 is fun to shoot and deadly, I've killed numerous species including water buffalo with the 375 and some shots on large species of deer at fairly long range. But as others have said, in long range hunting I would prefer 338 caliber cartridges. Also as has been mentioned, I agree that a 338 shooting lighter than 270 gr bullets will be very flat with more speed and likely a larger wound channel. (if using Barnes that wound channel will be all the way through the animal)
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Offline kentrek

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2024, 10:44:55 AM »
Speed, bullet construction, ballistics, science, blah blah blah...you won't find a cooler set up then a 375 and decent speed bullet

But it is a novelty and not a necessity

Offline LDennis24

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Re: I like big guns...and I cannot lie
« Reply #44 on: March 12, 2024, 02:55:10 PM »
What about a nitro express!? .400-.700 or something? :dunno: Those old accurate reloading videos of the Saudi guys shooting that gun were hilarious!

 


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