Central Washington Deer Population

[CarbonHunter]

Just wait till this year when we have upthegrove managing our fire response. He will be taking the fire budget and building homeless shelters in Seattle. Not saying I was a fan of Franz but given her political position she actually did a decent job with wildfires. I don’t think we will see the same results out of Upthegrove this year.

[Romulus1297]

There was a study of collared deer in the Methow valley showing a majority of those deer had moved to the orchards around Chelan. It doesn't take rocket science to figure out predators forced them out.

I wonder what the groomer for the snowmobile trails would say about the deer he sees in the winter?

[Romulus1297]

Oh wait I guess I know what he thinks of the migratory deer that are gone.

[bigmacc]

I don’t think anyone is saying all the deer are gone from the valley but myself and some others have a history there and are old enough to have witnessed what this herd once was. I’ve said many times that in its hay-days the herd numbered roughly 30k-40k, it was the largest migratory mule deer herd in the country at one time. Because of the many migration routes that not only funneled in from the many summering areas high up within the valley itself(that could be considered local deer) but also the many routes that flowed in from parts of the Sawtooths, the Pasayten and routes coming in from Canada. Like others have mentioned, I also witnessed hundreds of deer in fields, I witnessed and have shared stories of seeing hundreds of deer pouring down draws during hunting season only to pass on 60-70 smaller bucks hoping for something “special” which usually always would happen if a fella had the patience😆👍 I told the story of a college gal that was parked on the highway in a particular migration route in the north valley area as a volunteer “deer counter”. Dad and I stopped and talked to her for quite awhile, it was the 2nd week of November I believe (season was over) and as of 5 hours into her shift she had counted over 6 or 7 hundred (I can’t remember) cross the road heading for the wintering areas. That particular route comprised of many smaller routes that came together, forming larger groups that eventually would break into smaller groups miles away and they would move into different areas.

There are still deer in the valley, I don’t think anyone is denying that, and there are still big bucks to be had but it’s foolish imo to think this herd is anywhere even remotely close to what it once was. A mere shadow of what it once was is even not close. The “local herd” has been affected and the migratory herd has taken a beating. Yes, more encroachment, more vehicle impacts and number 1 IMO, more predators. The trifecta I guess you could call it. Out of the 3 the biggest one being predators could be managed, but are not. They (the predators) have moved up the ladder and have taken over the number 1 spot as a priority. The herd was once the darling of the “Game Department” so to speak, no longer, there’s a new darling of the WDFW and the growing “new human inhabitants” of the valley.

I also agree to a certain extent with the folks who believe fires and even tough winters are a factor. The thing is that’s Mother Nature, those two have been happening since the beginning of time. Having said that, we can’t control the weather but I believe we can do a much better job of forest management etc, timberfaller, I agree 100 percent with your views on this concerning the herd and deer numbers, 100 percent 👍

[Romulus1297]

Yes you are right all of the deer are not all gone but a lot less and they are now no longer in the normal winter range

[Romulus1297]

This has been here for 4 years it is legal now

[chukardogs]

 One of my childhood memories is sitting in my families Willy's truck with my grandfather about a hundred yards down the road from the Basalt Peak trailhead on the Chikamin Ridge road. I was four to six years old at the time, so it would have been 1966 to 68.
 We could see my father and another hunter were already on the trail above the road when deer started coming out of the canyon onto the road. We watched as the road filled with a herd of Mule deer. Because of the hunters above, the deer all mingled and milled about for a while. There were four big bucks completely surrounded by the does and smaller bucks. My guess has always been upwards of 40 deer were standing in the road before they all turned and went back down the canyon.
 Back then in November, if you hit the migration at the right time you could go up on the ridge south of Maverick Saddle and find areas that looked like a herd of cows had been driven through there.
 Are there deer, sure. My guess is the deer population is less than 25% of what it was in the 60s. If we stay on the path we're on now with predator populations at all time highs, the migratory populations don't have a chance to rebound. Just the bears killing fawns in the spring is enough to keep the population where it's at. Throw in Wolves and Cougars and the fact that a lot of the wolves have cattle and sheep available, meaning their numbers won't drop with the prey as they should and it all just gets worse.
 There'll always be the deer populations that have figured out that living in someone's back yard ain't so bad but disease seems to be taking its toll on those populations also.
 Ain't good but what can you do but keep at it?
 Good luck out there!

[bigmacc]

Yes you are right all of the deer are not all gone but a lot less and they are now no longer in the normal winter range

Yep, “a lot less” deer is a true statement. I believe they have the Methow herd pegged at right around 13k-17k when at one time not to long ago it was 30-40k. Their estimates of 13-17k in my opinion and others is inflated, anyway you look at it this herd has taken a beating over the last 20-30 years, when the coddling of predators took over( the ban on hound hunting etc and wolves) the spiral really took hold, an explosion of cougars whacking them 365 24/7, and a growing bear population targeting the fawn crops then wolves. This herd doesn’t really stand a chance to “rebound”. Not saying other herds are hurting as bad or some deer are trying to “escape” by going into totally different areas to winter but the fact is the once mighty Methow herd has been reduced to a trickle.
 Piss poor forest management, human encroachment etc play their part also but the predator issue in this valley is huge and getting worse every year. Some old timers warned years ago that it would eventually become a “predator pit”, well I’ll be darned, so hey, let’s let some grizzlies loose too

It all proves my point of how far the herd has slipped down the totem pole so to speak, at one time they were at the top, no longer, the herd has been replaced by the “new darlings”.

[timberfaller]

 

You will find out whenever you are having to "deal" with government agents, no matter their degree's in wildlife, Predation by certain animals will be "ignored"!   I have come across this phenomenal "ideology" in all my conflicts with them.  This occurs weather its wildlife or Fish!

Ya can't fix stupid no matter how smart they think they are!

[Skyvalhunter]

Every year I do a public records request for different GMU's where I know they do helicopter surveys after the deer season. This year (2024)in 242 Alta Fitkin /Troyer did theirs. There was 220 does, 163 fawn, 51 bucks for a total of 434 deer. That's a far cry from some of the numbers people are throwing out there. Pearrygin 224 was the only one better with 331 deer. The trend hasn't shown it getting any better in the years I been requesting these.

[Mtnwalker]

Every year I do a public records request for different GMU's where I know they do helicopter surveys after the deer season. This year (2024)in 242 Alta Fitkin /Troyer did theirs. There was 220 does, 163 fawn, 51 bucks for a total of 434 deer. That's a far cry from some of the numbers people are throwing out there. Pearrygin 224 was the only one better with 331 deer. The trend hasn't shown it getting any better in the years I been requesting these.

Do you have any past numbers for comparison?

[timberfaller]

" That's a far cry from some of the numbers people are throwing out there." 

I remember when the Gun Ranch draw over to Cub Cr. and down to the Big Valley alone had those kind of numbers, when they migrated back in the winter.  That was only one of many ranges in the valley.  Deer Hill would have close to 100 Whitetail.  The valley is a far cry from its former glory.  And for those old enough to remember, the Gunn Ranch was full of pheasants when it produced hay.

[sooperfly]

Do you have any past numbers for comparison?

I posted this a few years ago.  This is from 1938.

[Skyvalhunter]

I have the numbers back to maybe 5 years. I didn't believe the doe to buck ratio Fitkin was putting out. His were deceptive. If he says buck to doe rato is 25:100 but there's only 125 deer total that's deceptive.

[CarbonHunter]

Do you have any past numbers for comparison?

I posted this a few years ago.  This is from 1938.

So is what you’re saying is that in 1938 there were more deer in a single drainage that we have in the whole region today? Hum, if only the state would have created a department to manage our deer populations back then…