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Author Topic: New Revelations about Reintroduced Wolves, July14-2009  (Read 3890 times)

Offline wolfbait

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New Revelations about Reintroduced Wolves, July14-2009
« on: July 21, 2009, 10:15:02 AM »
This site tells the wolf story that we will see here in Washington. Pull it up and take a long hard look at what we have to look forward too.

Why Admit the Facts They Have Been Hiding?

Hunters and their elected officials who interpret these revelations as a change in management philosophy may not understand the agencies’ real reasons for admitting the truth about wolf predation. Because Idaho and Montana agreed to act as agents of FWS for at least the next five years in managing wolves for FWS, they have inherited several serious problems including how to address the loss of hunting license revenue caused by wolves depleting the game herds.

As wolf experts predicted in 2001, wolf numbers have expanded beyond their carrying capacity and are quickly decimating their wild prey base in both states. There is not adequate federal funding to monitor them and their prey – much less pay the cost for Wildlife Services to investigate the rapidly increasing livestock losses and locate and kill the offending wolves.

The animal rights groups that FWS and the State agencies have embraced for two decades have no intention of allowing wolves to be controlled in the lower 48 States any more than they did in Alaska. They have already won the battle to reverse wolf delisting in the Western Great Lakes and even if they fail in their request to the Missoula Judge for an injunction to halt wolf hunting, they have promised to appeal it to the Ninth Circuit which has also been friendly to their cause.

http://montanahuntingtoday.com/blog/index.php/2009/07/14/new-revelations-about-reintroduced-wolves/#more-379

Offline boneaddict

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Re: New Revelations about Reintroduced Wolves, July14-2009
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2009, 10:24:06 AM »
and people wonder why good folks turn to SSS

Offline jackelope

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Re: New Revelations about Reintroduced Wolves, July14-2009
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2009, 10:29:32 AM »
Shoot
Shovel
Ship

?? ?? ??
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline ICEMAN

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Re: New Revelations about Reintroduced Wolves, July14-2009
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2009, 08:11:16 PM »
Sight, scope, squeeze....  :P
molṑn labé

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Offline Old Dog

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Re: New Revelations about Reintroduced Wolves, July14-2009
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2009, 10:00:49 PM »
I've heard it refered to as the 4 s'es
See 'em
Shot 'em
Shovel 'em
Shut up.
Hunt hard and shoot straight!

Offline Elkaholic daWg

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Re: New Revelations about Reintroduced Wolves, July14-2009
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2009, 01:49:28 PM »
 Snowest forums last year tahnks to Id. Powdergirl

Default Save Our Elk
I'm not sure if you guys have seen this website or not but thought I'd post it here. The slide has very graphic and disturbing photos and I have definitely learned some things - one is, no one pregnant should be in the forest! Ohh man - my heart is still somewhat pounding after going though this website...

Save Our Elk   Save Our Elk

I know that there has been a huge decline in our wildlife - I and my family have personally witnessed it in the Elk City/ Red River area in north-central Idaho....


Then:
We used to wake up to several heards of elk in the meadow in front of the house nearly every morning in the 80's and early 90's. Many would come in the evenings too. The dear were always floraging right next to the house to, especially in the evenings - grandma had to take many measures to keep her beautiful garden in tact. At night we'd hear heards of elk walking on the hillside right next to the house as sticks cracked and their hooves clanked against rocks and stomped on the hollow sounding ground. We had two salt licks and often that wasnt enough to accomodate them all. We've had dear, elk and moose in the back pasture all at one time - waiting for their turn at either of the salt licks.

We even had many visits by black bears - once, when I was 3, my grandma and I were in the back yard hanging wet laundry when a black bear came for a visit. We turned around and darted for the front yard - my grandpa just happened to be in the front yard - he heard something and looked up and around the corner of the house came the dog, little me, my grandma and the bear all in single row fashion! My grandpa actually laughs at the situation - the bear turned away though and was gone, he was not threatening us, just curious I think and only came back a few more times before Fish and game trapped him and several others over the years and relocated them.

I also remember as a older child, sneeking up on the dear through the creek ditches while they were licking at the salt licks. I always stayed down wind, making it diffuicult for them to figure out I was there - they would get awefully annoyed with me - they'd stare at me as I would hold really still, like a cat getting ready to pounce on its prey, every time the prey wasnt paying attention, the predator makes quite moves to get closer. Well, I got the crap scared out of me one time - I got too brave, I was within 20 feet, the dear started stomping and snorting at me - that's all i needed, I wasnt about to get malled by the deer.

I also used to take off on little hikes around the house - I'd venture 1/4 to 1/2 mile away in the woods - just me and my dog. It was safe then. No one worried about it.

In the evenings, we'd listen to the coyotes howl and yip - sometimes very close to the house. They were never a threat but of course, I was scared of them as a small child.

There were wolves around then too - they were Timber Wolves and they stayed far away in the remote back country for the most part. You were lucky if you saw a foot print or a feces.


Now:
The meadows are empty most mornings and evenings, the one salt lick is rarely visited and the howl of multiple wolf packs fills the eveing air. The house sits on the edge of a high mountain meadow/valley which stretches for many, many miles - we can hear wolf packs from one extreme end to the other, some in the middle and a few from behind the house - all in a matter of 10 - 20 minutes. It is actually an incredible thing to hear, I must say, (especially to hear two or three going at once, again, all from different directions) but at the same time, it is very unnerving. My grandparents even witnessed a wolf chase an elk THROUGH THEIR FRONT YARD and have seen a pack feasting not far from the house in the meadow.


No, they are not scared of us. There is no way I could let my children play outside without one of us right by their side up there now. I'm not too worried about it here in McCall but they still are not far away. I do worry about human safety - see the videos on the "It Gets Worse" page but we can avoid them by staying in our homes right?

I worry most about our wildlife. Will my children ever get to experiance what I did? Not in their childhood - maybe mid life, if we do something now?


EDIT:
Wow - I've gotten through most of this website, clicking on all the "Click Here" buttons - it sounds like our elk situation is very bad!

And guess how snowmobilers are affected by wolves?

"The wolf caused depradation is so bad that the IF&G has closed off the Clearwater River area to snowmobiles."

http://rliv.com/pic/elk%20trapped.pdf
__________________
« Last Edit: July 22, 2009, 01:59:20 PM by Elkaholic daWg »
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Offline whacker1

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Re: New Revelations about Reintroduced Wolves, July14-2009
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2009, 03:05:21 PM »
Interesting Article - It comes back to the conversations / arguments / discussions about what backgrounds the Fish and Game folks come from.  Both commission members, advisors, and staff.  Are these folks pro-hunting and pro-fishing?

Are they science based?

Are they from a pro-animal background?

Are they from a budgetary background?

As someone stated to me this last election cycle. 


We have had Democrat leadership controlling the Governor's office for the state of Washington pushing 30 years.  This means that on a broad based level the same leadership have been in all of the appointed offices.  If it is not the same leader for said department, it is their immediate protege'.   

Occassionally these folks need to be re-interviewed for their jobs as public officials and department heads.  This normally happens with the changing of leadership as it has in the President's office.  Not that I like the current administration, but it does force the change in department leadership every 4 to 8 years.  But this hasn't happened in WA for a very long time.

I didn't know enough about the Idaho F & G background to say which way was up, but if I were in the Governor's office in Idaho.  I would be having a heart to heart with leadership to discuss the role of said staff. 

Offline Houndhunter

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Re: New Revelations about Reintroduced Wolves, July14-2009
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2009, 04:02:52 PM »
Shoot
Shovel
Ship

?? ?? ??

:chuckle: ssp
shoot
skin
package correctly

Offline HUNT

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Re: New Revelations about Reintroduced Wolves, July14-2009
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2009, 04:32:23 PM »
Snowest forums last year tahnks to Id. Powdergirl

Default Save Our Elk
I'm not sure if you guys have seen this website or not but thought I'd post it here. The slide has very graphic and disturbing photos and I have definitely learned some things - one is, no one pregnant should be in the forest! Ohh man - my heart is still somewhat pounding after going though this website...

Save Our Elk   Save Our Elk

I know that there has been a huge decline in our wildlife - I and my family have personally witnessed it in the Elk City/ Red River area in north-central Idaho....


Then:
We used to wake up to several heards of elk in the meadow in front of the house nearly every morning in the 80's and early 90's. Many would come in the evenings too. The dear were always floraging right next to the house to, especially in the evenings - grandma had to take many measures to keep her beautiful garden in tact. At night we'd hear heards of elk walking on the hillside right next to the house as sticks cracked and their hooves clanked against rocks and stomped on the hollow sounding ground. We had two salt licks and often that wasnt enough to accomodate them all. We've had dear, elk and moose in the back pasture all at one time - waiting for their turn at either of the salt licks.

We even had many visits by black bears - once, when I was 3, my grandma and I were in the back yard hanging wet laundry when a black bear came for a visit. We turned around and darted for the front yard - my grandpa just happened to be in the front yard - he heard something and looked up and around the corner of the house came the dog, little me, my grandma and the bear all in single row fashion! My grandpa actually laughs at the situation - the bear turned away though and was gone, he was not threatening us, just curious I think and only came back a few more times before Fish and game trapped him and several others over the years and relocated them.

I also remember as a older child, sneeking up on the dear through the creek ditches while they were licking at the salt licks. I always stayed down wind, making it diffuicult for them to figure out I was there - they would get awefully annoyed with me - they'd stare at me as I would hold really still, like a cat getting ready to pounce on its prey, every time the prey wasnt paying attention, the predator makes quite moves to get closer. Well, I got the crap scared out of me one time - I got too brave, I was within 20 feet, the dear started stomping and snorting at me - that's all i needed, I wasnt about to get malled by the deer.

I also used to take off on little hikes around the house - I'd venture 1/4 to 1/2 mile away in the woods - just me and my dog. It was safe then. No one worried about it.

In the evenings, we'd listen to the coyotes howl and yip - sometimes very close to the house. They were never a threat but of course, I was scared of them as a small child.

There were wolves around then too - they were Timber Wolves and they stayed far away in the remote back country for the most part. You were lucky if you saw a foot print or a feces.


Now:
The meadows are empty most mornings and evenings, the one salt lick is rarely visited and the howl of multiple wolf packs fills the eveing air. The house sits on the edge of a high mountain meadow/valley which stretches for many, many miles - we can hear wolf packs from one extreme end to the other, some in the middle and a few from behind the house - all in a matter of 10 - 20 minutes. It is actually an incredible thing to hear, I must say, (especially to hear two or three going at once, again, all from different directions) but at the same time, it is very unnerving. My grandparents even witnessed a wolf chase an elk THROUGH THEIR FRONT YARD and have seen a pack feasting not far from the house in the meadow.


No, they are not scared of us. There is no way I could let my children play outside without one of us right by their side up there now. I'm not too worried about it here in McCall but they still are not far away. I do worry about human safety - see the videos on the "It Gets Worse" page but we can avoid them by staying in our homes right?

I worry most about our wildlife. Will my children ever get to experiance what I did? Not in their childhood - maybe mid life, if we do something now?


EDIT:
Wow - I've gotten through most of this website, clicking on all the "Click Here" buttons - it sounds like our elk situation is very bad!

And guess how snowmobilers are affected by wolves?

"The wolf caused depradation is so bad that the IF&G has closed off the Clearwater River area to snowmobiles."

http://rliv.com/pic/elk%20trapped.pdf
__________________

This is true....  My grandparents family owns the upper 2 miles of this meadow she is talking about.  I remember the elk herds there when I was a kid....  You hardly see game anymore and my family sees wolves there all the time.  It is just not the same.  I grew up hunting in those mountains and shot my first deer there and now I don't go back because of the wolves and what they have done to the game population.
Rack'd Up Outdoors

Offline wolfbait

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Re: New Revelations about Reintroduced Wolves, July14-2009
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2009, 09:10:30 PM »
The FWS wolf recovery in the Northern

Rocky Mountains (NRM) has involved deception from day

one using misinformation, half truths and deliberate lies to

sell the program to Congress and the American public; and

2) since August of 1994, that deception has included

deliberately underestimating the total number of wolves in

the three states with disastrous consequences.

http://rliv.com/pic/TheOutdoorsmanMay.pdf

 Washington has plenty more wolves then the powers that be are saying. The feds will drag the found "new wolf pack" out as long as they want. In the mean time the wolves will multiply up to 50% per year. It doesn't matter what the people want that live in these areas where the wolves were and will be released. The minute the wolves were offloaded in Yellowstone and Idaho the environmentalists had their foot through the door with their new tool. The feds have been in bed with them from the start and they still are. In the end it will be the people who enjoy time in the outdoors, hikers, backcountry horsemen, hunters etc. and the people who live in the communities where these wolves move into,  that will be doing the managing, Just like Idaho and other state have ended up doing. I don't see the feds winning to many cases in court over people shooting wolves. They dumped these wolves in on the people and then said deal with it. Do to the lack of management, people that never dream they would have to buy guns for self-protection, protecting pets and their livestock from the imported Canadian Wolves will be doing so.  Eventually the feds will have to step up to the plate and manage their badly screwed up, over populated Imported Canadian Wolf mess,  job security. Meanwhile hunting will come to a stand still because the wolves will have put the game in an animal pit. The environmentalists will be taking more of your property rights away and limiting access to public lands.

 


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