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Author Topic: Boneaddict Entiat deer management plan  (Read 23982 times)

Offline Bigshooter

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Re: Boneaddict Entiat deer management plan
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2008, 06:05:11 PM »
If you want to manage for quality and quantity, then permit the entire state.  Killing two points one year only hurts you two years later when those bucks should be four points.  Yeah I know there are some older two points that would die.  But I don't think enough older two points would die two make a difference.  There are always going to be two points and spikes in herds.  Idaho has the same basic system we do and there in the same boat as us.  We need to look at states like Colorado, Nevada, Arizona, and New Mexico.  They manage for quality and quantity.  We all know that something needs to be done, to get the quality back in the entiat.  But if we want that done we need to join together and make wdfw change it.  It is not impossible Utah residents forced Utah to manage a few trophy areas.  They actually shut down a few units for a couple years, before reopening them for hunting.  If we want change we need to join together and force change!
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Offline WAmuleyHunter

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Re: Boneaddict Entiat deer management plan
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2008, 06:59:38 PM »
best thing and really the only options would be to cut back on all permits, close the entiat side or cut way way back on the permits for archery in there.  swakane needs to be permit for archery as well.  This winter it is very apparent the deer just arent there, lowedog knows, duck knows very well what used to roam around in there.  there just isnt the numbers of mature bucks period. and this year i am not even seeing as many deer period up in places.  And to anwser somebodys question on kill percentage on the late entiat archery guys. they are both entiat b and c are both in the mid to upper 70% and i think one of those was right around 80% Its really sad as to what has happened. and i doubt they will change anything until its to far gone.

Offline jstamp

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Re: Boneaddict Entiat deer management plan
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2008, 07:18:19 PM »
I think a lot of people have some great ideas on what to do, now we just have to get someone from f&w to listen. Maybe someone should tell them how much money they will make on some of the changes, that seems to be the only thing they manage for in this state.

Offline rougheye

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Re: Boneaddict Entiat deer management plan
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2008, 07:22:01 PM »
70% sounds pretty high.I must have met everyone that didnt get one.I think 65 rifle tags is worse because on a early winter year that means 65 of the biggest deer are dead right off the bat.

Offline Shannon

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Re: Boneaddict Entiat deer management plan
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2008, 07:32:26 PM »
You can't single out the bow hunter's and say that is why the big bucks are gone. The last two years of bow hunting has not been great in the entiat. Look at the number of hunters and what they have harvested. Only about 130 of 310 possible bow hunter's even hunted. Their success varied in the 60-70 percent but look how many does made up the harvest. Better yet would be if you could see how many dink bucks made up the harvest. A lot of people think any deer with a bow is a trophy. The 65 rifle tags with 99% harvest success with all but one of the tag holders hunting are doing more damage on big bucks than the 130 bow hunters. Beau's last year in office he kept saying the herd is maxed out on the winter range. Bow hunters shooting does and small bucks would help this out. Rifle hunter's shooting breeders are not helping out the limited amount of mature bucks. I think the biggest nightmare that happened to this herd is the general season massacre that happened 3 years ago. The rifle season can't ever be allowed late in the month of October ever again, the herd needs a break from shed hunter's, roads need to be closed in some areas, doe harvest needs to be increased until the next winter kill, and controlled hunt numbers of every weapon need to be reduced. I also think the game warden patrols of this area during the bow season needs to be doubled. Go into the entiat in late November and early December and see how many people are in there. There is way more than the 70 bow hunters that say they hunted in the first season. There seems to be more people hunting than when the season was open to all bow hunters. It is depressing that it went down hill so fast. I don't think I will waste my points on this tag next year. The only problem is its still the best unit we have even with the downward spiral. What's that saying about the state of Washington's deer hunting? I am done with this novel for now.
Shannon

Offline WDFW-SUX

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Re: Boneaddict Entiat deer management plan
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2008, 07:33:08 PM »
I agree the number of archery hunters on the Entiat winter range is way too many. The WDFW has created a situation where one user group is forced into one small area with the chiwawa, Entiat and Swakane. If they alloud us a wider area to hunt In I would not be in the swakane unit ever year.  

If they opened all of the GMU's units that are open to late rife tags to archery to special permits  I and many others would leave the entiat all together and hunt other units that are now closed.  I think that would be a good first step in lifting the burden on the Entiat herd.

Archers are not the only problem there are to many modern late tags and the high hunt is taking its toll as well.  In my opinion all user groups should be permanently cut back :dunno:
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Offline rougheye

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Re: Boneaddict Entiat deer management plan
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2008, 07:37:07 PM »
Well said shannon

Offline WAmuleyHunter

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Re: Boneaddict Entiat deer management plan
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2008, 08:07:31 PM »
agreed. Well said shannon.  I would love to see all four of those entiat area units rifle permits cut back down to around 20 or so.  and then the archery numbers reduced. and i love the thought of more patrols in the entiat areas.  winter range area's closed from shed hunting, snowmobiling, or atleast patroled so people harassing wildlife could be caught.  there is people riding snowmobiles right now all over for sheds.  I definily hope things get fixed, or it might be a long time until we see the entiat herd at its potential

Offline lemondog

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Re: Boneaddict Entiat deer management plan
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2008, 08:37:58 PM »
One option is to manage some units for " Premium" quality units. Less pressure and less tags all around, upper end bucks for thoes who draw. That is one option. I however think the whole system need to be brought into the current century. If you look at some of the states having success both with quality and finances, not everyone hunts just anywhere every year. That would be nice but the pressure is just too much......I have had some great hunts in the past few years just going along and helping someone who had a good tag. Way more fun than seeing 2 points and 30 hunters on every ridge. If the Department was brave enough we have what it takes to be world class.........

Offline HuntinFool

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Re: Boneaddict Entiat deer management plan
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2008, 09:48:32 PM »
I agree with lowedog duck and garrett on this one

Offline WAcoueshunter

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Re: Boneaddict Entiat deer management plan
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2008, 10:18:25 PM »
Lots of good thoughts here.  The department has limited late tags in a number of units to maximize trophy potential (desert, pearrygin, etc.), but for whatever reason let the entiat go the last couple years.  Would love to get their input on the thinking there...increased late tags, public access during winter?  It certainly doesn't make sense from my perspective.  I know the state doesn't control the federal lands, but at a minimum, couldn't they close the state lands to winter access?

That being said, I've been pleasantly surprised a couple times to hear their argument for a seemingly bad decision, which makes a lot of sense after you hear the reasoning.  E.g. why our draws are so much later than other states...a bunch of us jumped to the conclusion that they just didn't have their sheet together.  But we later learned that they publish the hunts late because they'd rather have the winter kill data to make unit-specific decisions on tag numbers (I'll leave the Outdoor Central problems out of this for now).  That makes sense.  I guess I'm a glass half full guy until I hear the reasoning behind their decisions...of course, I reserve comment on the thought process...but I've been proven wrong before.

Offline andrew_12gauge

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Re: Boneaddict Entiat deer management plan
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2008, 10:43:32 PM »
I hate to say it but we need a system like oregon has. All mule deer hunting other than archery is permit only, archery has no late seasons, muzzleloaders are all before rifle but very limited as to the number of units and then when it comes to rifle tags you have so many tags in some areas its almost impossible not to draw, but they also have the premium hunts that are very limited as to number of tags. I say leave early archery as open to anyone that way, everyone has a backup plan, and early archery doesn't see that many deer taken anyway, then give mule deer tags in selected units say desert, a few units in the methow, and chelan county, then when it comes down to rifle all your units with late permits now become your very limited permit areas with a season extending through the rut all your units that dont have late permits get massive amounts of tags and a 9 day season in october still, then since washington bowhunters could never live without a late season we give out very limited late archery permits, in areas that are managed for trophy quality. In this situation the only choice in hunt selection that would be effected by or take away points when drawn would be the hunter's first choice, that way if you wanted to save points for that premium hunt but still wanted to hunt with a rifle every year you would put for example entiat for first choice and several high number tags for choices 2,3,and 4. Now when you get drawn for a high volume hunt you still get a point, and the next year when you get drawn for the entiat you would lose your points. Plus washington also has the added benefit in this situation of having plenty of whitetails, which you could open a season on from the beggining of october to the end of november and still probably never stop the herd from expanding, so every one could also buy an extra either sex whitetail tag and put venison in the freezer every year.



Let the crucifixion begin.

Offline boneaddict

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Re: Boneaddict Entiat deer management plan
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2008, 10:55:25 PM »
Well said Shannon.  I don't think Archery is having that much impact.  I believe its us modern guys.  I don't think you have to close it for winterrange.  Close all of the roads.  If you want to be on the winterrange then strap on the snowshoes.  The land can still be open for use, yet cut back the pressure.  Since all of the fires, a deer couldn't hide out there worth beans.  I'm also glad that someone heard me when I said the damage was done 3 years ago.  There just isn't and won't be any recovery.  I picked the Entiat because there are a bunch of you guys interested in it.  The Methow is the same alomst, for similiar reasons, yet there isn't the late archery in a majority of it.  There is alot more escapement.  Lots of roadless areas.  It has more tribal impact.  Its a bit different I suppose.  Still have those big two points that need to be taken care of. 

Offline huntnphool

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Re: Boneaddict Entiat deer management plan
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2008, 02:28:48 AM »
LMFAO :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:

Nice try Bone, that makes entirely too much sense :bash:

Go back to your normal job, you are obviously not F&W material :chuckle:

Love ya brother ;)
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Offline ICEMAN

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Re: Boneaddict Entiat deer management plan
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2008, 06:53:54 AM »
I say permit sytem for the 2's. Open a general for 2's and every hillbilly in adjacent areas will claim to have shot his 2x2 in the entiat.  Need to regulate how the 2's are culled. (Can't believe I just said that....I hate new regulation.....)
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