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Author Topic: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington  (Read 120249 times)

Offline bobcat

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #105 on: June 04, 2011, 05:00:54 PM »
So, how do they protect rosies from extinction?

Well- maybe wolves will never make it that far. The WDFW plan does not say there has to be wolves in the Olympics to allow for delisting. It's only the pro-wolf people that want to see wolves in every piece of possible wolf habitat in the state. One comment I heard was that the state would make a lot of money from people coming to see the wolves.   :rolleyes:

Offline DoubleJ

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #106 on: June 04, 2011, 05:03:02 PM »
They can't be that stupid can they?

Offline bobcat

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #107 on: June 04, 2011, 05:09:52 PM »
They can't be that stupid can they?

Sure they can. And just to clarify, the comment was not made by the WDFW, but by a pro-wolf person who was commenting on the draft wolf plan.

Offline billythekidrock

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #108 on: June 04, 2011, 05:22:41 PM »
So, how do they protect rosies from extinction?

They are not concerned about elk extinction as much as they are concerned (or using the issue) about the damage and over-eating the elk are doing to the riparian zones.




Offline DoubleJ

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #109 on: June 04, 2011, 05:25:23 PM »
They can't be that stupid can they?

Sure they can. And just to clarify, the comment was not made by the WDFW, but by a pro-wolf person who was commenting on the draft wolf plan.

So, they are actually trying to compare tourism dollars to hunting dollars?  Did they actually try to insinuate that these wolf watchers would be able to make up the millions of dollars hunters shell out in tags alone?  Holy *censored*, I knew that the WDFW has their head up their ass but, even they should be able to see this is BS.

Offline cabin308

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #110 on: June 04, 2011, 05:32:23 PM »
Not trying to threadjack, but the wolves decimating the moose populations really caught me.
About a month ago I was talking with the neighbor at our place near Clarkia/Bovill, Idaho.  His logging friends had recently found 3 moose killed and only partially eaten when they got out to their logging site up Keeler Ck.  Can't be absolutlely certain but the loggers were sure it was wolves that killed the 3 moose.  They found a lot of wolf tracks in the mud and snow near the kills.
This winter we once went snowmobiling near that area and saw 2 healthy moose in a previously logged area.  We had seen wolf tracks in the snow but they were several miles from where we saw the moose.  Hate to think that those 2 we saw might not be alive now.
Wolves in Idaho is obviously not anything new but hearing about the moose numbers getting hammered in Yellowstone, the Washington wolf situation getting worse and what happened to the moose near our place really struck hard.     
     

Offline billythekidrock

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #111 on: June 04, 2011, 05:35:22 PM »
 sAccording to F&W:
They are not looking to restore historic levels and they are not looking to bring in wolves from out of state.
 
Up coming wolf meetings:
June 8 & 9 with Wolf Working Group in Ellensburg.
*Aug 4 Final/EIS presented to Commission in Olympia
*Aug/Sept FWC Wolf Plan Workshop in Ellensburg
*Oct 6 FWC Wolf Plan Workshop in Olympia
*Nov FWC Wolf Plan Workshop in Olympia
*Dec 3 & 4 FWC Finalize/Adopt Wolf Plan
*= Tentative dates.
 
Of the 65,000 responses for public input, 50,000 were form letters from out of state. They weigh/mean as much as any input from you or I.Even though the comment period is over, new comments will be catalogued and archived.




Offline billythekidrock

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #112 on: June 04, 2011, 05:50:57 PM »
They can't be that stupid can they?

Sure they can. And just to clarify, the comment was not made by the WDFW, but by a pro-wolf person who was commenting on the draft wolf plan.

So, they are actually trying to compare tourism dollars to hunting dollars?  Did they actually try to insinuate that these wolf watchers would be able to make up the millions of dollars hunters shell out in tags alone?  Holy *censored*, I knew that the WDFW has their head up their ass but, even they should be able to see this is BS.

Unfortunately hunting dollars don't come close to other recreation dollars anymore.




Offline billythekidrock

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #113 on: June 04, 2011, 06:01:59 PM »
  According to F&W:
They are not looking to restore historic levels and they are not looking to bring in wolves from out of state.
 
Up coming wolf meetings:
June 8 & 9 with Wolf Working Group in Ellensburg.
*Aug 4 Final/EIS presented to Commission in Olympia
*Aug/Sept FWC Wolf Plan Workshop in Ellensburg
*Oct 6 FWC Wolf Plan Workshop in Olympia
*Nov FWC Wolf Plan Workshop in Olympia
*Dec 3 & 4 FWC Finalize/Adopt Wolf Plan
*= Tentative dates.
 
Of the 65,000 responses for public input, 50,000 were form letters from out of state. They weigh/mean as much as any input from you or I.
Even though the comment period is over, new comments will be catalogued and archived.
 
 
Public Input:
 
Jasmine ******
Is with Conservation NW and was happy to work with an “incredible process and proud of the work over the last 3 years”. But she felt that the F&W wolf plan “was the minimum that could be done and still maintain scientific credibility”. She also said that the new provisions for lethal take “dilutes the scientific credibility”.  She is concerned that the Ungulate/predator plans provide lethal removal to wolves to save ungulates and that “ they will look into and monitor” that plan. She said that WA is not Wyoming and hopes that we can be leaders in wolf management.
 
Hillary ****** (Jasmines assistant)
Said she was a college biology student from Monroe who had horses/chickens, a small farm basically. She supports the wolf plan, but says, “though extensive, it is a start”. She said she was glad that F&W “are making steps – not like Wyoming” and then reiterated that the wolf plan was “a start”.
 
  I found it interesting that a Commission member sought out and spent time with both these women before and after the wolf portion of the meeting.
   ***
 
Shelly *****
Is a Wolf Haven volunteer who said that the Peer Reviews (#1 pg4 BG C) state the viable populations numbers (Wolf Plan) are a grey area” and “that numbers are still being considered a work in progress” to them.
 
   ***
 
Dane *****
He states he is a diverse military man from the other side of the country who has traveled extensively and has listened to many opinions on this issue. He says “WA is green and known for it so what is that statement without action”. He wants F&W to “consider all non lethal options to promote numbers for a sustainable population of wolves”. Then he went on to mention that he looked up many non lethal options and commented about all the trees in WA and how we should protect them as well.
 
***
   Donna *****“key improvements are needed” and that the “numbers are too low”. The numbers “seem to be not sufficient for a sustainable population”. She “strongly urges” them to
consider higher numbers”. She also want the coast to be it’s own (additional recovery area and cited studies that state the coast “can hold up to 60 wolves”. She wants elk in the Olympic National Park “to control elk damage to the riparian zone”. She also wants to repeal the “caught in the act provisions. She also stated that the commission should “consider the economic value of eco-tourism”.




Offline DoubleJ

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #114 on: June 04, 2011, 06:22:52 PM »
They can't be that stupid can they?

Sure they can. And just to clarify, the comment was not made by the WDFW, but by a pro-wolf person who was commenting on the draft wolf plan.

So, they are actually trying to compare tourism dollars to hunting dollars?  Did they actually try to insinuate that these wolf watchers would be able to make up the millions of dollars hunters shell out in tags alone?  Holy *censored*, I knew that the WDFW has their head up their ass but, even they should be able to see this is BS.

Unfortunately hunting dollars don't come close to other recreation dollars anymore.

That's the fault of the WDFW, not the hunters

Offline billythekidrock

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #115 on: June 04, 2011, 07:06:58 PM »
They can't be that stupid can they?

Sure they can. And just to clarify, the comment was not made by the WDFW, but by a pro-wolf person who was commenting on the draft wolf plan.

So, they are actually trying to compare tourism dollars to hunting dollars?  Did they actually try to insinuate that these wolf watchers would be able to make up the millions of dollars hunters shell out in tags alone?  Holy *censored*, I knew that the WDFW has their head up their ass but, even they should be able to see this is BS.

Unfortunately hunting dollars don't come close to other recreation dollars anymore.

That's the fault of the WDFW, not the hunters

I don't think that is true. It is a numbers game and non-hunters out number hunters and it has to do with data collection as stated in other threads here.




Offline Wenatcheejay

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #116 on: June 04, 2011, 08:04:51 PM »
Well, I for one am very grateful that this topic is back up for discussion on H-W. I feel it is critical to the future of our sport and I hope the civil discourse continues.
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.

Offline Special T

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #117 on: June 04, 2011, 08:58:56 PM »
I think you are all wrong! Including BP! This is not about the wolves or if they belong here. Wolves have been here for a long time. Just look thought Wolfbaits past posts that have 3rd party documentation about wolves in this state. Often they are article from newspapers like the Seattle times or PI with questions posed to WDFW employees.
Today its wolves, Yesterday it was the spotted owl, and tomorrow? Maybe the wolverine... Animals are a TOOL and the ESA is the weapon. The facts are on our side in regards to wolves, just as they prove that spotted owls are in danger from other owls not timber cutting.
This issue is about $$$. The $$ made by "Nonprofits"  and the FED grants that are doled out to those states that cooperate.
Everyone here can argue facts until they are blue in the face, but i gaurentee if you take the $$$ incentive away it will become a non issue.
I laugh at Wolf "management" 1) because i have little trust in the WDFW or the USFS. 2) If Idahos aerial gunning management can only kill 5 wolves how in the hell are you going to "manage" wolves in real timber like whats on the the West side of the Mts?  2 small facts that i gleaned from a couple of WB 3rd party posts... Legal hunting was only able to take 5% of the wolf population, and aprox 40-60% take was necessary to keep wolf populations in check... Most bush pilots used to have AR rifles in their planes for wolf control before aerial gunning was outlawed... That was the only method that came CLOSE to keeping them in check...
We can argue the "facts" with people like robertg and his ilk, but they just lead us away from the main issue, like a Kill-deer leads you away from the nest pretending a broken wing.
In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

Confucius

Offline bucklucky

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #118 on: June 04, 2011, 09:05:48 PM »
I love the wolves, please oh please keep them safe. I cant wait to see them in my back yard soon. Better them than the damn rose bush eating deer .

Online bearpaw

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #119 on: June 04, 2011, 09:28:54 PM »
Steps Outdoor Sportsmen and Others Can Do To Ease Threat of Hydatid Disease
 
June 2, 2011 Tom Remington Black Bear Blog
 
About a year ago, Dr. Valerius Geist, Profesor Emeritus of Environmental Science, The University of Calgary, Calgary, Alberta, Canada, present to the Montana Legislature’s Environmental Quality Council, information about echinococcus granulosus, echinococcus multilocularis, hydatid disease, the contraction of the disease and how it is spread, etc. At the end of his presentation, he provide some preventive measures to reduce the spread of hydatid disease among humans.
 
Here is that list:
 
In areas with hydatid disease, do not touch freshly killed wild canids, except with rubber gloves and always wash your hands thereafter.
 
Put fresh skin into a plastic bag, and do not allow family members to touch it till the skin has been cleaned.
 
Clean fresh skin off hydatid eggs: submerge fresh skin in water laced with an anti-helminthic agent.
 
When out hiking and discovering the scat of wolves, coyotes or foxes, do not poke around in it trying to discover what food remains can be identified. Hydatid eggs can become airborne and get into your mouth.
 
Avoid picking berries or mushrooms where you find wolf, coyote or fox scat, as hydatid eggs will float onto surrounding vegetation, berries and mushrooms included.
 
Before camping make sure that there are no wolf, coyote or fox scats close by.
 
Eat only with very clean hands.
 
After a successful deer, elk or moose hunt etc in hydatid infected regions, suspend the liver and lungs over your camp fire till well cooked, and dispose of it. That should kill hydatid cysts.
 
PS. At the time of this writing, I had not anticipated wolves hunting elk and deer among homes in rural hamlets and defecating infected feces on lawns, driveways and school yards. Dogs will roll on wolf feces and carry the infectious eggs into homes, while cars driving over infected feces in driveways will carry infectious eggs into the family garage. The only sensible precaution is to get rid of the these habituated wolves as they are also a danger to children.
 
Source:
http://tinyurl.com/3j34qmy
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