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Author Topic: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington  (Read 120263 times)

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #180 on: June 05, 2011, 01:31:45 PM »
Dale,
Judging by the public comments I heard at the meeting. Your group should be attending every meeting until this thing is finalized. 

My only suggestion is. When you guys speak to the commission. Make sure to leave out any emotion you may have pertaining to this issue. And make damned sure that all comments are fact based. If you let your emotions get out of check at these meetings. It just hurts any chance of being taken seriously. Comments to the commission should be well thought out and written out to stay on topic.

Unfortunately the wolf issue is what it is. They WILL be here to stay. The hurdle now will be. Countering the wolf lovers, to keep the numbers as low as possible. And the number of zones to thier current numbers.

I agree 100%. Wolves are coming whether we like it or not. Now we need to try to mitigate the damage.
 
I was surprised that there seemed to be no one from the WFW at the meeting. I would have also thought there would have been a larger presence from the WPHA.

We need volunteers who will belong to our group and volunteers to go to these meetings. Please sign up and help us do this. Myself and the few others who have been trying to organize the group can not do everything. We are glad to have all sportsfolks sign on, but we also need members with passion who want to get involved and who want to go to the meetings, we would welcome your help whether it's just to bolster our numbers or if you would also attend meetings that would be great.
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline Bob33

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #181 on: June 05, 2011, 01:37:20 PM »
Dale, you've got to listen to what science says, not your son. ;)
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #182 on: June 05, 2011, 01:48:36 PM »
Great post bob....  :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:


At times I am very critical of WDFW, but I want to say, we have some great people working for WDFW. However, I honestly see no point in trying to talk to the endangered species division of WDFW, they are being led by wolf lovers and are promoting wolves any way they can. Wolves have been bought and paid for in Washington.

Folks we get one chance to convince the Wildlife Commission (citizen commissioners) to use the "new science coming out of Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming" when approving this wolf plan. Look at what has happened in Idaho's Lolo zone and YNP. Two of the wests largest elk herds have been devastated by wolves. The yellowstone migration hunts (thousands of permits issued annually) have been nearly completely eliminated.

Northern yellowstone Herd has gone from nearly 20,000 elk to less than 5,000.

Idaho's Lolo zone has gone from nearly 18,000 elk to less than 2,000.
Helicopters were recently used in the heavy timber of the lolo and only 5 wolves were killed. Idaho F&G can't get rid of the wolves even now that they can and want to.

After that we have to deal with the legislature.  :dunno:
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Offline rtspring

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #183 on: June 05, 2011, 01:56:08 PM »
DALE,
Thanks for posting the pictures of the wolf kills. This is a side that the wolf lovers don't want  people to see.
I hope I can expand my knowledge of wolves as you have. I stand beside you brother and will help anyway I can once I retire..

We must all speak as one voice on this issue and come together to make our voices heard.

thanks again,
RTSPRING
I kill elk and eat elk, when I'm not, I'm thinking about killing elk and eating elk.

It doesn't matter what you think...

The Whiners suck!!

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #184 on: June 05, 2011, 02:39:11 PM »
educational video

Crying Wolf - Some quick facts about Wolves


livestock losses, soon Washington will be on this list.....
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline Huntnphish

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #185 on: June 05, 2011, 02:45:50 PM »
 Are these domestic sheep in the draft?

Offline DoubleJ

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #186 on: June 05, 2011, 02:49:38 PM »
I emailed the crying wolf guys a couple of weeks ago and begged them to send an expedited copy of their film to the Director of the WDFW, the Washington Legislature, and the Gov.'s office as soon as possible.

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #187 on: June 05, 2011, 02:51:02 PM »
Good job DoubleJ....

Huntnphish, the chart I posted is for livestock.

Nice story Dave....

Washington is new front in ‘Wolf war’

 Evergreen State hunting activists are sounding the alarm in the wake of Saturday’s Fish & Wildlife Commission discussion in Olympia on the revised wolf management plan.


http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/washington-is-new-front-wolf-war
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

http://bearpawoutfitters.com Guided Hunts, Unguided, & Drop Camps in Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Wash. Hunts with tags available (no draw) for spring bear, fall bear, buffalo, cougar, elk, mule deer, turkey, whitetail, wolf! http://trophymaps.com DIY Hunting Maps are also offered.

Offline DoubleJ

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #188 on: June 05, 2011, 02:53:52 PM »
Never got a response so, others should do the same.  www.cryingwolfmovie.com

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #189 on: June 05, 2011, 03:00:03 PM »
Montana 2010 - Wolves killed or injured $512,981 worth of cattle, calves, sheep, goats, horses, llamas guard dogs and pet dogs. Four years ago, wolves damaged $73,269 worth of livestock, pets and working dogs. Predator increases have been caused by several factors...(the full story below)


Wolves impact predator damage in many ways
By Bill Brewster
http://www.tsln.com/article/20101228/TSLN01/101229957

The predator control landscape in Montana is changing in part due to increased wolf populations and limited regulations created by the Endangered Species Act. Evidence of the change can be seen in the way the USDA APHIS Wildlife Service (WS) agency controls other long-time predators, including coyotes, bears and mountain lions.

Predator damage costs in 2010 are up across the board from 2006 WS data in Montana.

In 2010, predator damages from coyotes, wolves, grizzly bears and black bears totaled $1,288,635. The 2006 figure was just $294,083.

John E. Steuber, Montana WS state director, said more personnel time and department funds are spent dealing with the ramifications of an increasing wolf population and range.

Grizzly bear range along the front range has also increased, expanding to the south and east with more than 700 bears estimated. Because grizzly bears are omnivorous, Steuber said, bears don't always kills livestock the way wolves do when present in ranch country.

Predator price tag
The highest livestock predator price tag was caused by coyotes. They killed or injured $634,008 worth of cattle, calves, sheep, lambs goats, chickens, geese and turkeys. In 2006, the total was $174, 492.

Wolves created the second highest figure in 2010. They killed or injured $512,981 worth of cattle, calves, sheep, goats, horses, llamas guard dogs and pet dogs. Four years ago, wolves damaged $73,269 worth of livestock, pets and working dogs.

Black bears caused livestock damage totaling $75,785 in 2010, compared to $23,450 in 2006. Besides killing or injuring cattle, calves, sheep, goats, pigs, llamas and chickens, black bears destroyed a large number of beehives. Steuber said beehive damage is greater during years when the berry crop is lower.

Grizzly bears caused $21,481 worth of damage in 2010 and $5,126 in 2006. Grizzlies killed cattle, calves, sheep, lambs, goats and kid goats. Steuber said the increase could be caused by several factors, including pinecone and berry crop changes. Another interesting factor, he said, has been the expansion of their range on northern rocky mountain from mountainous terrain back to the prairie where they roamed more than a century ago.

Mountain lions caused $12,975 in damage in 2006, with the price tag climbing to $31,419 in 2010, Steuber noted. The reported damage costs in 2010 included $5,665 from red fox predation plus $3,735 from ravens and $3,5570 from eagles. Red fox damages in 2006 were $2,071 and $2,000 from ravens and $700 from eagles, the report stated.


Wolf-related complications
Predator increases, Steuber said, have been caused by several factors, all of which relate to wolves.

“We have not received any additional funding since the time the population and range of wolves has expanded,” Steuber said. He explained that the “ground tools” government trappers can use to control predators are limited because of federal laws designed to protect wolves in the area.

Steuber said poison, like M44, can't be used to control coyote populations in many cases. In addition, trappers can't use snares because they might catch wolves in many regions.

Ground tools are the cheapest method for control, but are difficult to use because of regulations, Steuber said. The alternative is to use helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft, the use of which is limited because of budget restrictions.

In addition, government trappers need to set traps every day, which isn't always possible when personnel have large control areas that cover several counties.

The equation, Steuber said, is also complicated because of the time now spent investigating potential wolf kills and the ground work which is necessary to authenticate predator kills.

“It's time consuming and it takes up a lot of our time,” he said. “Besides, expenses have gone up with salaries and fuel, so it limits what we can do with our budget.”

The agency has an annual budget for predator control of about $3 million, and a manpower force of 20 personnel to handle the entire state.

Steuber said an ongoing challenge is when producers find missing calves from their herds but aren't able to determine what actually killed them.

“With our limited budget, we can't do preventative work, so we are really reacting to damage,” he added.

As expected, Steuber said the WS program in Montana focuses most of its efforts on managing the interface between livestock and wildlife. The recovery of two threatened and endangered species, the grizzly bear and the gray wolf, both predators of livestock, add a significant measure of complexity to their job. WS cooperates with the Montana Department of Livestock; the Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks; and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, as well as various livestock organizations to protect livestock from a variety of large predators, including threatened and endangered species.
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline DoubleJ

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #190 on: June 05, 2011, 03:02:25 PM »
« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 03:16:59 PM by bearpaw »

Offline bearpaw

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Offline Dave Workman

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #192 on: June 05, 2011, 03:57:55 PM »
Trust me. I am no fan of the wolf. I don't want any wolves here!!!!!!
I am just warning those of you that were not at the meeting. 2 of the people that commented. Brought up the fact that 15 breeding pairs was a low number. My fear is that the attacks on the WDFW's scientific integrity could add more numbers. Like it or not they are very concerned about public image. And the wolf lovers are not afraid to be heard.

Essentially what I said here:


Washington is new front in ‘Wolf war’

 Evergreen State hunting activists are sounding the alarm in the wake of Saturday’s Fish & Wildlife Commission discussion in Olympia on the revised wolf management plan.


http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/washington-is-new-front-wolf-war

The pro-wolf movement is like the gun prohibitionist movement, and anybody who says different is  :liar:

The target population of 15 breeding pairs hides the true fact about the number of wolves actually that will be present. We're talking packs of wolves with a breeding pair of alphas in each bunch.

No matter how many pairs we achieve and how many wolves show up (they coming by Greyhound bus or what?) it will never be enough to satisfy the wolf lovers, and they will fight every attempt at population control by filing lawsuit after lawsuit. 

They don't give a rat's as about the elk population and they certainly don't care about hunting. Indeed, I predict that one day, wolf advocates will start filing federal lawsuits to prevent state agencies from setting hunting seasons because it would cut too deeply into the wolves' prey base. 

It's like the gun prohibitionists...no matter what law you pass, it is not good enough. we always need another law, an other restriction. 

You can trot out that argument about scientific management all you want. The wolf lovers will dispute your science, they will declare it fraudulent, they will haul you and your agency into court. 

Read my column from today (click the link above) and this one from Friday:

Alarmed WA hunters doing the math on wolf program

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/alarmed-wa-hunters-doing-the-math-on-wolf-program



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Offline Huntnphish

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #193 on: June 05, 2011, 04:07:49 PM »
 Well said Dave. :tup:

Offline SemperFidelis97

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #194 on: June 05, 2011, 05:19:25 PM »
its one of the worst ideas they have ever had. the wolves have been gone for so long that to reitroduce them is going to be MORE damaging to wildlife than if they never came here. it almost calls for a need to cut the state in half. westsiders are trying to make rules and implement things on the eastside, quite frankly i think because they will never have to personally deal with anything that passes. why are they so intent on placing wolves on the eastside? they have been found on the westside. why not plant 6 breeding pairs between bellevue and north bend? that way there, people who are pushing this will have to deal with the consequences of their actions. vote wolves in, they get dropped in YOUR backyard. you want them, perfect, you deal with them. dont try to push them on everyone else in the state where you will never deal with them. i think that with the ranchers and farmers, raising the prices of their goods would come as well. they start losing cattle, sheep, horses, pigs etc, the price per animal is going to have to go up so they can maintain their profit margin. we have plenty of predators with plenty of overbearing laws on them as it is, why add another, non- native species mind you, of predator that will make the current preds seem like kittens. they will destroy and decimate everything that people have worked for the last 60 years in the wildlife world. antelope, cya. bhs, cya. moose, cya. elk, deer, you guessed it, cya. we will go on outdoor hikes to look at bronze statues of what these animals looked like becuase there wont be any if these pukes have their way

I don't know where you are getting your misinformation from, but gray wolves are a NATIVE species and always have been.
you are what I refer to as a hippy, and supporting a invasive species is far worse than SSS :twocents:

Someone is a hippy because they speak the truth? Once again, gray wolves are very much a native species. You can keep on believing they are a non native species all you want, but that doesn't change the facts. Wolves are going to be in WA whether you want them or not. Shouting "sss" is not doing the hunters side any good.

Anyone notice how Robertg completely ignores any scientific argument, and continues to respond to posts like this.  I am not an expert on the wolf situation all I can speak to is my experience with the destruction of the mule deer population in the Frank Church.  I learned a long time ago not to trust any government agency who tells me they are doing things for the greater good.

 


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