Wolf Wars have moved to Washington

[danderson]

One can make the argument that true mule deer are becomming rare to find, and if wolf populations are allowed to grow the mule deer will become endangered also, shouldnt we be protecting the fragle deer populations rather than adding to there hardship.

[Elkaholic daWg]

 The anti people have this as a goal also. We can't hunt an endangered species.

[danderson]

And it is also a crime to knowingly cause a species to become endangered.

[Special T]

Arguing the facts with robertg and his ilk may be interesting or fun. It MAY help sharpen our argument against the Govs wolf plan, however it is a read herring. It consumes our thoughts and efforts into less productive efforts. $$$ is the root of this issue. If we want something constructive we need a list of points to hammer WDFW with at each public meeting. Organized, Concise message repeated over and over pounding it into the public's head. That is the strategy that the Nonprofits are using and the are  in their organization... Form letters suck, but reinforce specific points which is good for gov bureaucrats. I think the main point to hammer at the WDFW AND the public is the Miss management of $$$ that topic resonates TODAY because we are much more focused on it as a general population. 

[bearpaw]

I am told the WDFW recieved thousands of draft letters from out of state supporting wolves and they carry just as much weight as in state letters because the WDFW gets federal money.

We need to work on a from letter with specific points that everyone can send in. Maybe something in petition form that we can pass around and have sent in by whomever we can get to send it in. 

[Wenatcheejay]

One thing that is very concerning is that the "Pro-Wolf" side of this debate. In it's "Association/Organization" form is financially dependent on keeping this controversy alive. Once Wolves are recovered their revenue stream will cease. I have seen to many groups like this who have a vested interest in finding scientific reasoning (AKA financial reasons) to keep studying and keep looking for evidence. I am also concerned about a Federal Government or a Federal Judge that wants to force States to enact erroneous laws or face financial ruin. (And those laws also create financial ruin.) Again, look to Idaho and their sale of Elk Tags to understand my point. Simply put, this needs to stop. 

[Special T]

Wen J, and just like a parasite they will find another host that will do their bidding... Mabe the wolverine, or some other animal... When the wolf outlives its usefulness then they will just pick another. 

[jmoyer2]

What scares me the most about this whole situation is how the government has stifled our ability to protect personal property and our way of life. I can't believe that the USFWS would have the balls to tell anyone that the only thing they can do if a wolf attacks their pet is watch. And then tell ranchers "oh yeah sorry about that, our bad, here is some money to help cover you loses. Oh and by the way there is gonna be alot more of them coming your way because people in NY and SF like the idea of wolves in their country." I'm not a rancher, but if I was I would want to sue USFWS for ruining my livelihood. I know this is horrible to say, but I really think that someone is going to have to be hurt or killed in the lower 48 before anybody realizes how bad of a mistake this was, and the most unfortunate part is that it will probably be a child. Mark my words, this will eventually happen, and when it does, I hope the family of the victim sues the living sh*t outta the USFWS and community members go on a wolf killing spree.

In nature, predators kill their competition. It happens all the time. Wolves are our competition, so let em fly.....
 

Oh and one more thing, props to Wyoming for not bending to the USFWS propaganda bullsh*t. They will be receiving funds from me to hunt in their state, ID and MT will not.

[Dave Workman]

My latest entry:

Washington’s wolf war heating up fast   

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/washington-s-wolf-war-heating-up-fast

[WA hunter14]

What scares me the most about this whole situation is how the government has stifled our ability to protect personal property and our way of life. I can't believe that the USFWS would have the balls to tell anyone that the only thing they can do if a wolf attacks their pet is watch. And then tell ranchers "oh yeah sorry about that, our bad, here is some money to help cover you loses. Oh and by the way there is gonna be alot more of them coming your way because people in NY and SF like the idea of wolves in their country." I'm not a rancher, but if I was I would want to sue USFWS for ruining my livelihood. I know this is horrible to say, but I really think that someone is going to have to be hurt or killed in the lower 48 before anybody realizes how bad of a mistake this was, and the most unfortunate part is that it will probably be a child. Mark my words, this will eventually happen, and when it does, I hope the family of the victim sues the living sh*t outta the USFWS and community members go on a wolf killing spree.

In nature, predators kill their competition. It happens all the time. Wolves are our competition, so let em fly.....
 

Oh and one more thing, props to Wyoming for not bending to the USFWS propaganda bullsh*t. They will be receiving funds from me to hunt in their state, ID and MT will not.

the sooner that happens the better, before to many deer/elk are lost

[greenhead_killer]

What scares me the most about this whole situation is how the government has stifled our ability to protect personal property and our way of life. I can't believe that the USFWS would have the balls to tell anyone that the only thing they can do if a wolf attacks their pet is watch. And then tell ranchers "oh yeah sorry about that, our bad, here is some money to help cover you loses. Oh and by the way there is gonna be alot more of them coming your way because people in NY and SF like the idea of wolves in their country." I'm not a rancher, but if I was I would want to sue USFWS for ruining my livelihood. I know this is horrible to say, but I really think that someone is going to have to be hurt or killed in the lower 48 before anybody realizes how bad of a mistake this was, and the most unfortunate part is that it will probably be a child. Mark my words, this will eventually happen, and when it does, I hope the family of the victim sues the living sh*t outta the USFWS and community members go on a wolf killing spree.

In nature, predators kill their competition. It happens all the time. Wolves are our competition, so let em fly.....
 

Oh and one more thing, props to Wyoming for not bending to the USFWS propaganda bullsh*t. They will be receiving funds from me to hunt in their state, ID and MT will not.

hopefully it happens to one of the fuks that is a hard core advocate. i think that most prowolf people like the idea sitting at their couch and have no idea of what they are potentially supporting. like was stated earlier, it not 15 bp, 30 wolves, but 15 breeding packs of wolves. i think that if they are going to transplant wolves here and force it on everyone that doesnt want them or would like them to stay where they are currently at while letting nature take its course, wolves moving on their own, then we should be able to drop them where the majority of these groups are at so they can personally enjoy them on a daily basis, somewhere like discovery park, or greenlake in seattle. im sure they woiuld love to see them in their historical range. thats what they are really fighting for isnt it? also was stated earlier, why are we not trying yo bring the bison back, that would be beneficial every which way

[bearpaw]

I posted a wolf poll here:  http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,77393.msg950308/topicseen.html#new

[Gringo31]

This whole thing from top to bottom makes little sense to me.  Actually, it makes perfect sense with the way this country is going.

Endangered?  Hell no, the SPECIES is alive and well.  They are much like coyotes, and require serious measures to control populations.  Ah....but that is the real question!  Do they want the population controlled by humans?  Are we somewhat all screwed up in thinking that we humans should morally have any say in other "lives"?  The push is gotten flat out crazy!  This all fits in with organic food production, no vaccinating of children, drinking bottled water, wind power, "undocumented" workers and the like.  It just doesn't make any damn sense.  Someone else's ideas of how we are now better people and very little "science" is used.  I think we as a country are just lost.  Period.

So lets take another look at this.  Wolves are here and here to stay.  That won't change.  We have the CHOICE to manage them (and a kill all you see, 365 day season, bounty or whatever will not eradicate them).  We can choose to manage all of our natural resources or to even prioritize specific species, or we can do the opposite and let nature take it's course. 

This is no different than animal rights groups thoughts on a dairy cow.  They get the idea that we horrible humans have genetically mutilated the poor cow and now they give much more milk than they should.  Weirdo's like myself say we've done well.  We now have an animal that makes enough milk for both her calf and for us.

$$$$$$$
This state has no money.  It pisses me off that they will take a large part of their budget to screw with these wolves putting years of research and progress back for other species they have been working on.  People want to talk about sustainability.  That is what we are after as well!  We crazy hunters just want to harvest the excess. 

I would like WDFW to explain to us what they are going to cut to make wolf recovery fit in their budget.  Ah....but the fact is they don't.  They know they'll get federal $$$ but don't like us hunters pointing out that this will remove resources and reduce the opportunities we have............the same ones we pay out the nose to conserve.

Most of these problems come from someone sitting at their desk or in Portland (or any other big city) coming up with just how those of us that live out here need to be living our lives.  How we should be protecting our livelihoods etc.

Frankly, I think our state and gov't is not this stupid.  I think it's intentional.  This outcome is too predictable.  Who wants in Wa what they have in Idaho? 

Who?

[Jack Diamond]

Actually,they are not much like coyotes,coyotes are pikers compared to wolves, in fact wolves eat and or run coyotes out. rather have coyotes myself. been dealing with them for forty years.
Wolf management should consist of any depredation they are shot on site, If someone believes that they should live in a "wilderness area" then fine with me, however when they stray away from "the  Wilderness" then they are considered to be escaped, and need to be radically managed, just my 

[bearpaw]

Gringo I share your thoughts and frustrations. But we are in a situation where the Commission is going to approve a wolf plan whether we comment or not. The way i see it, we must do our best to convince them with the best arguments possible to keep this wolf plan as reasonable as possible. We must pick the areas that we might make a difference without sounding too redneck or our message will not even be heard, this is simply what we are up against.

We are outnubered by emotion and by sheer numbers of wolfers. The wolfers claim they have the science but that is a lie and we must keep pounding it into the commission what the "new" science is that is coming out of Idaho, MT, and YNP. The new science says the herds will not support the number of wolves that the wolfers want.

Jack D, I agree completely with your remarks. I think we can show reason for requesting that wolves be managed as predators in populated areas. I don't like giving up our wilderness areas, but there is no way we can win that one, we all know that. We also can show good reason to protect ourselves, pets, and livestock whereever we are at.

The wolfers are still using the same politics here in WA that they used in the other states, but new science is on our side, we must use the info that is coming from Idaho, MT, and YNP to our advantage.

Remember, twice now the feds have delisted eastern WA wolves. This is proof the federal gov does not consider that WA wolves must be a self sustaining stand alone population. The feds and the WDFW have proven that WA wolves are members of a greater and growing population of wolves. FACT

Good discussion, lets keep it going....