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Author Topic: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington  (Read 120321 times)

Online Bob33

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Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline mulehunter

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #541 on: June 10, 2011, 08:29:08 PM »
Thanks bob33.  It would be a while to do math and divide each unit of three.

Mulehunter.




Online Bob33

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #542 on: June 10, 2011, 08:31:58 PM »
Thanks bob33.  It would be a while to do math and divide each unit of three.

Mulehunter.
I wish I could find a summary. I will keep looking.
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Offline mulehunter

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #543 on: June 10, 2011, 08:48:25 PM »
I believe bobcat post this.  Its hard to find est of Elk in Steven county, tennanway, Hanford, Fork county and there is lists of 6 areas in WDFW but not enough infos,  we need find all good Est of each Unit.  I wonder if someone ask WDFW to set up number on each units and we will watch those populations and wolves growth. Its best idea to do now than later, when they try to bulls!t on those numbers in future by Saying different stories  :dunno:

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Offline sebek556

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #544 on: June 10, 2011, 09:14:45 PM »
stevens county has atleast 5 elk by springdale area :chuckle: trail cams are great lol. as far as the herd I dunno I know there is a large one to the east south of 49 north but dont know sizes hope to do some camping up there this summer maybe I could find out what i need from wdfw to get herd number est. while I am there

Offline uncoolperson

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #545 on: June 11, 2011, 07:58:41 PM »
These ladies live in Eagle River near Anchorage.

I think I used to walk that road with my mom when I was younger... crazy

just got back from my moms... yeah we used to walk that road.

Offline Ridgeratt

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #546 on: June 11, 2011, 09:25:28 PM »
here is the trend status report for last year. Elk info starts on page 68.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/01159/wdfw01159.pdf

Online bearpaw

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #547 on: June 12, 2011, 11:14:23 AM »
thought I should post this in this topic too...
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greenspace/2011/06/new-mexico-wolf-recovery.html

New Mexico abandons efforts to restore Mexican gray wolves

June 10, 2011 |  4:26pm

New Mexico's Game Commission on Thursday night voted to stop assisting the federal effort to restore Mexican gray wolves in the Southwest, the latest step by new Republican Gov. Susana Martinez's administration to reverse her state's green course.
 
Martinez appointed four new members to the six-member commission. Its vote is expected to have a mainly symbolic impact in the beleaguered attempt to reintroduce the wolf, which was once endemic to the state before government trapping pushed it to the brink of extinction.
 
Federal biologists supervising the reintroduction have found less than 50 wolves in both New Mexico and Arizona after the species was returned to the region in the late 1990s. Martinez's Democratic predecessor, Bill Richardson, ordered an end to government trapping of the wolves in 2007.
 
The state's Fish and Game Department is still required to conduct surveys of the wolves and protect them as an endangered species. The state has spent only $1.9 million on the program since 1999, with most of that paid by the federal government, and dedicated two employees to it.
 
Ranching groups, who complained the predators damaged their cattle and threatened children, were cheered. “It shows support for the rural industries that are under siege right now," said Laura Schneberger, president of the Gila Livestock Growers Assn. “But I don’t know how it will affect us immediately.”
 
Environmental groups were outraged. "New Mexico's governor sided with an intransigent, wolf-hating livestock industry," said Michael Robinson of the Center for Biological Diversity.
 
Republicans in Congress have separately proposed legislation to end the wolf re-introduction program, following their successful attempts to end federal supervision of the gray wolf in the northern Rockies.
 
Martinez has made a point of distancing herself from Richardson's environmental record, which she contended hurt business.
 
Shortly after taking office this winter, Martinez removed all members of an environmental board which formulated rules limiting emissions.  She also overturned regulations that required a 3% cut in industrial greenhouse gas emissions and regulated waste on dairy farms, though the state Supreme Court later overturned those moves, ruling Martinez exceeded her power.
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Offline Curly

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #548 on: June 12, 2011, 11:24:43 AM »
Now that is some good news.  Glad to see the new governor doing good things for New Mexico.  Wish we could get a decent governor in this state.........
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Offline villageidiot

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #549 on: June 12, 2011, 09:32:16 PM »
One good solution to the ranchers   vs the wolf lover groups to end all dispute.    One of their groups can vow to pay every livestock owner    DOUBLE market price of any livestock killed by a wolf.  The local wildlife officer and the rancher can be the people making the investigation.  If this was done then all ranchers would be in favor of letting the wolves take their stock.  They sell them to people to eat and if the wolf will pay twice as much then he would sell them to the wolf gladly.   Problem solved.   Then we would have to come up with a solution for the hunters loseing deer and elk.   Might not ever get that one solved because theres' not enough money to pay for all the deer and elk they will eat.

Offline danderson

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #550 on: June 12, 2011, 10:21:12 PM »
Thats a good point, when the wolves whipe out the mule deer populations, the people that pushed so hard to force them on us should  be held accountable for the reintroduction, after all the hard work that sportsman have put into getting them recovered from the harsh winters of 1996-1997 all progress made will be lost, the mule deer populations will drop to a endangered level, whats the value of the average trophy mule deer buck, lets say 5000.00, thats the fine for poaching one, tell me whats the difference?

Offline Wenatcheejay

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #551 on: June 13, 2011, 08:16:05 AM »
What is important is our Government in this State does not value us or the revenue that we create. They think they can tax around us. It is not just tags and licences. The Discovery Pass is one example. If you buy one you prove their point. I for one will not. I would much rather force them to hire LE, find me. I don't need to be in Parks or in BLM/DNR land. The program has not worked to well to get us out of recession. What they are doing will make all things worse not better. But, perhaps I am wrong. Maybe if we keep cutting services, raising fees and taxes, cutting out opportunities to recreate, and pay for programs that will reduce all of the above and cost more than we can imagine to Cattle and Ranching industry things will be Rosie. I really don't think there is a chance of things improving at all until we have a change in Government.
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Offline Wenatcheejay

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #552 on: June 13, 2011, 08:26:26 AM »
Tuck said good science, not hunting opportunity, was the management plan's mandate.

"Will there be impacts on ungulates (deer and elk) that certain people hunt? Probably. As a deer and elk hunter, that would be me," Tuck said. "But ecosystems are not vending machines. I don't need to put in my quarter -- ka-chunk -- and have a trophy elk pop out. That's not what this is all about."               :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:

could someone fact check the 8000 elk harvest number, sounds high too me ?

http://www.yakima-herald.com/stories/2011/06/09/some-panelists-say-population-cap-needed-for-wolves-in-state


Here is the responce the Herold gave to me. They were very polite.

Bob Crider, editor of the Herald-Republic, forwarded your question regarding the reference in my wolf-management story to the annual elk harvest being inconsistent with the 7,060 that were harvested in 2010.

The number I used in the “about 8,000” harvest referred not to a single year’s harvest but the average over the long haul, and the 10-year average is just a few dozen shy of 8,000. The wolf management plan used the number of “about 7,900” as the annual elk harvest, and in going back year-by-year through the past six years I noted that the harvest ranged from a low of 6,826 in 2008 to a high of 8,665 in 2005, with the harvest exceeding 8,000 in three of the six years. I went with the “about 8,000” in the interests of brevity in an otherwise not-brief story, and because I felt it was consistent with the historic averages.

I appreciate your taking the time to follow up on the story. Wolves are certainly a fascinating subject.

-- Scott Sandsberry

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Offline Special T

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #553 on: June 13, 2011, 08:57:36 AM »
Sounds like a fair explanation.
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Online bearpaw

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #554 on: June 16, 2011, 06:29:56 PM »
more info from Idaho, this should be a learning process for Washington viewing what has happened in idaho....

County, state talk wolves

By Summer Crosby
Published: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 4:40 PM PDT

Hunting and trapping seasons aren’t going to do the job if the goal of Idaho Fish and Game is to reduce wolf populations in the state, Rod Halvorsen, of the Benewah County Natural Resource Team, told IDFG officials.

The two groups met before the county commissioners Monday.

“We have methods for controlling lions and bears, but we don’t have methods today to control wolves that work,” said Mr. Halvorsen. “Wolves are a moving target. Utilizing traditional sport methods inside a short three-month hunting season is not going to reduce numbers.”

Regional Wildlife Manager Jim Hayden said no one knows an exact number of the wolves within Panhandle Region. He said it’s probably somewhere between 100 and 200 wolves, with fewer than 50 inside of Benewah County.

IDFG Director Virgil Moore said one of the largest questions facing the department and the commission is how the wolves should be distributed among the landscape. Part of the argument from the Benewah County Natural Resource Team was that wolves are causing a negative impact to the heritage, custom and culture of the county.

“They’ve impacted the livestock, the lifestyle of the people in our county,” Mr. Halvorsen said. “They are changing the behavior of other wildlife. You can’t manage them, you have to control them.”

Chip Corsi, Panhandle regional supervisor for IDFG, said that the commission will start hearing recommendation on managing wolves. He said it’s likely that will be accomplished through a variety of means.

“(People) are expecting us to go beyond the effort we made a couple years ago when we were just sticking tags in people’s pockets,” Mr. Corsi said. “We need to be aggressive and we need to have a broader range of tools. We have a low tolerance for bears that cause problems for people and when mountain lions show up in Lewiston, they don’t last long.”

Tony McDermott, IDFG commission, agreed. He said that hunting is something that “makes them feel better.” During the last hunting season, the period was extended. In a six month period, only 23 wolves were killed.

Mr. Halvorsen said that if the IDFG is serious about reducing wolf numbers, they need to look at some methods that will certainly not make them popular with the environmentalists.

The county’s policy on wolves recommends denning wolves, using bait to lure them into an area and shooting them, using electronic predator calls and no closed season. Mr. Corsi said they do have to be aware of some things socially.

“We’ve got, in Idaho, about 25 percent of people who pick up a gun and go hunting. We have another five to 10 percent of people who hate hunting and then the rest, 60 to 70 percent don’t hunt, but they support it. You have to be careful in the process of achieving that goal that you don’t flip those numbers around and have 60-70 percent of people become anti-hunters,” he said.

Mr. Halvorsen said many people need to be educated on the facts of what the wolf does as a predator.

“Let’s face it. Everyone thinks the wolf is beautiful, but what does that wolf have to do to become fat, sleek and shiny? There’s a grim reality of what wolves do as a predator,” he said. “And when people understand that, even those who are pro-wolf, they’ll take a step back and say �hey, maybe we need to do something a little differently here.’”

Mr. Moore expressed that they understand the frustration. He asked the Natural Resource Team and the commissioners to give the commission some time and a chance to get something put together.

Mr. McDermott added that if he had his way wolves do not belong in settled areas at all. But right now, the question is how do they manage the wolf?

“And it (the plan) is going to have be adaptive,” Mr. McDermott said.



Story:
County, state talk wolves

Hunting and trapping seasons aren't going to do the job if the goal of Idaho Fish and Game is to reduce wolf populations in the state, Rod Halvorsen, of the Benewah County Natural Resource Team, told IDFG officials.

The two groups met before the county commissioners Monday.

For more of this story, click on or type the URL below:

http://www.gazetterecord.com/articles/2011/06/15/news/news04.txt
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