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Author Topic: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington  (Read 120331 times)

Offline DoubleJ

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2011, 11:17:12 AM »
Here we go  :rolleyes:

Offline DoubleJ

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2011, 11:17:43 AM »
its one of the worst ideas they have ever had. the wolves have been gone for so long that to reitroduce them is going to be MORE damaging to wildlife than if they never came here. it almost calls for a need to cut the state in half. westsiders are trying to make rules and implement things on the eastside, quite frankly i think because they will never have to personally deal with anything that passes. why are they so intent on placing wolves on the eastside? they have been found on the westside. why not plant 6 breeding pairs between bellevue and north bend? that way there, people who are pushing this will have to deal with the consequences of their actions. vote wolves in, they get dropped in YOUR backyard. you want them, perfect, you deal with them. dont try to push them on everyone else in the state where you will never deal with them. i think that with the ranchers and farmers, raising the prices of their goods would come as well. they start losing cattle, sheep, horses, pigs etc, the price per animal is going to have to go up so they can maintain their profit margin. we have plenty of predators with plenty of overbearing laws on them as it is, why add another, non- native species mind you, of predator that will make the current preds seem like kittens. they will destroy and decimate everything that people have worked for the last 60 years in the wildlife world. antelope, cya. bhs, cya. moose, cya. elk, deer, you guessed it, cya. we will go on outdoor hikes to look at bronze statues of what these animals looked like becuase there wont be any if these pukes have their way

I don't know where you are getting your misinformation from, but gray wolves are a NATIVE species and always have been.

And they were exterminated for a reason

Offline robertg

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #47 on: June 04, 2011, 11:19:07 AM »
I don't want wolves in this state, especially a non native species.  But lets be honest here, there is no way in hell that we are gonna be able to go back to having zero any more.  I think now, we need to push for a managed population.  What that would be?  I don't know, but we need to treat them like any other species, and manage them.

Aren’t the wolves that were re-introduced in other places non-native or different from earlier wolves?

No. The belief that the wolves reintroduced in the mid-1990s to Idaho and Yellowstone National Park from west-central Alberta and east-central British Columbia differed (being larger and more aggressive) from the wolves that originally occurred in the northern Rocky Mountain states is erroneous for several reasons.

First, wolves from the Canadian and northern U.S. Rockies, interior British Columbia, Northwest Territories, and nearly all of Alaska are closely related and belong to a single subspecies known as Canis lupus occidentalis. This conclusion is based on the examination of historical and recent wolf specimens collected throughout North America. Those originating from the region described above have proven to be genetically and morphologically similar. Examples of this are seen in the wolves harvested during the 2009 hunting seasons in Montana and Idaho. Adults from Montana weighed an average of 97 lbs with a maximum of 117 lbs, whereas adults from Idaho weighed an average of 101 lbs with a maximum of about 130 lbs. These weights are similar to the sizes of the wolves that occurred in these states in the 1800s and early 1900s.

Second, wolves are well known for their ability to disperse long distances from their birth sites. Radio-tracking data show that wolves from southeastern British Columbia and southwestern Alberta mix both with wolves from Idaho and Montana, and with wolves from farther north near the source locations of the animals used in the Idaho and Yellowstone reintroductions. When combined with recent research that reveals considerable genetic mixing among wolf populations in Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming, this information shows that wolves form a single population across the Rocky Mountains of the northern U.S. and southern Canada.

Third, recent genetic research involving hundreds of wolves sampled from Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming in the 1990s and 2000s found no evidence that the remnant native population of wolves that differed from the reintroduced wolves. Thus, the wolves present in these states before wolf recovery began were genetically similar to those used in the reintroductions.

Offline DoubleJ

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #48 on: June 04, 2011, 11:21:01 AM »
So, if they migrate so well, why plant them?

Offline robertg

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washingtonhey
« Reply #49 on: June 04, 2011, 11:23:38 AM »
So, if they migrate so well, why plant them?

Wolves were never planted in Washington. They came over naturally from Idaho and other states. There is no reason to reintroduce wolves to Washington when they are already come over naturally from places like Idaho and Canada.

Offline DoubleJ

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #50 on: June 04, 2011, 11:24:42 AM »
So, if they migrate so well, why plant them?

Wolves were never planted in Washington. They came over naturally from Idaho and other states. There is no reason to reintroduce wolves to Washington when they are already come over naturally from places like Idaho and Canada.

Really?  I think you are the one who has mistaken info

Offline 3nails

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #51 on: June 04, 2011, 11:26:34 AM »
So, if they migrate so well, why plant them?

Wolves were never planted in Washington. They came over naturally from Idaho and other states. There is no reason to reintroduce wolves to Washington when they are already come over naturally from places like Idaho and Canada.
Hmmm.... I wonder how those WDFW radio collars got around thier necks.
Is He worthy?

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Offline greenhead_killer

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #52 on: June 04, 2011, 11:26:55 AM »
So, if they migrate so well, why plant them?
thats what i was thinking. if they are meant to be, then let them move themselves. why is it that we feel the need to undo things that are forefathers did 200 years ago? why is it our responsibility to undo it all? there was a reason they were removed in the first place and just b/c they once were here before, doesnt mean that they need to be brought back. and sorry about the non-native species, i dont really care what species, they dont need to be brought back. PERIOD.
IBEW 46

Offline robertg

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #53 on: June 04, 2011, 11:27:15 AM »
There are those who say we brought the wrong wolves into Idaho in 1995 and 1996, that they’re bigger wolves than the ones that were here.
I have to support the science again, and specialists in morphology and genetics on wolves indicate that the wolf that was brought down from Canada is the same wolf that lived here previously. And I did some research into books on early wolves that were captured in the Northern Rockies, even as far south as Colorado during the days that wolves were being hunted down in the 1930s; and the body weights were very much the same.

So I feel that this wolf that was brought from Canada is the same species and genetics as the wolves that lived here once upon a time. I think people have to remember that the northern Rockies -- we call it the northern Rockies in Idaho and Montana, but actually we’re a southern extension of the northern Rockies out of Canada -- and all of those wolves in Canada have the potential and the ability to disperse. I believe what happened over the last 50-60 years is that individual wolves have come from Canada following the Rocky Mountain chain and ended up periodically in places like Montana and Idaho.-Carter Niemeyer

Offline robertg

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #54 on: June 04, 2011, 11:31:04 AM »
So, if they migrate so well, why plant them?

Wolves were never planted in Washington. They came over naturally from Idaho and other states. There is no reason to reintroduce wolves to Washington when they are already come over naturally from places like Idaho and Canada.
Hmmm.... I wonder how those WDFW radio collars got around thier necks.

They captured the wolves in WA and put radio collars on them to monitor their movements and survival. These wolves were in Washington already. Naturally coming over from places like Idaho and Canada. Given the fact that wolves travel a lot of miles, it is not a shock for them to come over to Washington.

Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #55 on: June 04, 2011, 11:31:14 AM »
I haven't seen a lot either from or against WDFW regarding the wolves.  Maybe it's because of the part of the state I'm in.  Seems like the people making the case and doing all the prep work for the wolves are at the federal level, and to go even further...the national park service.  Most of what I've seen from WDFW about wolves, is they're not really even sure how to respond; but they are trying to please everyone--feds, huggers, and hunters.  Seems like they haven't come up with their own plan for wolves.  The National Park Service seems to be very agenda oriented--proactive, and WDFW is being reactive to it. 

Offline robertg

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #56 on: June 04, 2011, 11:32:35 AM »
So, if they migrate so well, why plant them?
thats what i was thinking. if they are meant to be, then let them move themselves. why is it that we feel the need to undo things that are forefathers did 200 years ago? why is it our responsibility to undo it all? there was a reason they were removed in the first place and just b/c they once were here before, doesnt mean that they need to be brought back. and sorry about the non-native species, i dont really care what species, they dont need to be brought back. PERIOD.

That is how you personally feel. Others in Washington feel like they should be brought back. I'm just telling you how it is.

Offline DoubleJ

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #57 on: June 04, 2011, 11:34:27 AM »
So, if they migrate so well, why plant them?
thats what i was thinking. if they are meant to be, then let them move themselves. why is it that we feel the need to undo things that are forefathers did 200 years ago? why is it our responsibility to undo it all? there was a reason they were removed in the first place and just b/c they once were here before, doesnt mean that they need to be brought back. and sorry about the non-native species, i dont really care what species, they dont need to be brought back. PERIOD.

That is how you personally feel. Others in Washington feel like they should be brought back. I'm just telling you how it is.

Anyone in Washington that feels they should be brought back have no vested interest in them being here

Offline jackelope

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #58 on: June 04, 2011, 11:44:21 AM »
So, if they migrate so well, why plant them?

Wolves were never planted in Washington. They came over naturally from Idaho and other states. There is no reason to reintroduce wolves to Washington when they are already come over naturally from places like Idaho and Canada.

Really?  I think you are the one who has mistaken info

DoubleJ-
Do you have information showing they were planted in Washington?
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Offline Kain

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Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #59 on: June 04, 2011, 11:46:28 AM »
Im going to start calling anyone who says wolves are endangered a liar.  There somewhere around 70,000 wolves in North America.  Personally I dont have a problem with a few wolves in WA that migrate here naturally but they need to be managed as soon as they cross the border.  They cannot be allowed to leave a path of destruction in their wake as they work their way to the ocean.  The fed has delisted the wolf in almost one third of the state.  I say we demand that any money going towards wolves is cut by one third.  If wolves can adapt to modern landscapes and human populations then they belong here.  They will live and survive where there is the fewest conflicts.  That is natures way.

 


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