collapse

Advertisement


Author Topic: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington  (Read 120235 times)

Offline robertg

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Tracker
  • **
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 63
Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #135 on: June 05, 2011, 08:40:16 AM »
Dale,
Judging by the public comments I heard at the meeting. Your group should be attending every meeting until this thing is finalized. 

My only suggestion is. When you guys speak to the commission. Make sure to leave out any emotion you may have pertaining to this issue. And make damned sure that all comments are fact based. If you let your emotions get out of check at these meetings. It just hurts any chance of being taken seriously. Comments to the commission should be well thought out and written out to stay on topic.

Unfortunately the wolf issue is what it is. They WILL be here to stay. The hurdle now will be. Countering the wolf lovers, to keep the numbers as low as possible. And the number of zones to thier current numbers.

You cannot keep the #s low because you are afraid the wolves are going to kill a lot of deer and elk. It needs to be based on science. The science says you need 15 breeding pairs to produce a sustainable wolf population in Washington. This is the science talking, not the emotion.

Offline bobcat

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 37084
  • Location: Rochester
    • robert68
Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #136 on: June 05, 2011, 08:45:36 AM »
Dale,
Judging by the public comments I heard at the meeting. Your group should be attending every meeting until this thing is finalized. 

My only suggestion is. When you guys speak to the commission. Make sure to leave out any emotion you may have pertaining to this issue. And make damned sure that all comments are fact based. If you let your emotions get out of check at these meetings. It just hurts any chance of being taken seriously. Comments to the commission should be well thought out and written out to stay on topic.

Unfortunately the wolf issue is what it is. They WILL be here to stay. The hurdle now will be. Countering the wolf lovers, to keep the numbers as low as possible. And the number of zones to thier current numbers.

You cannot keep the #s low because you are afraid the wolves are going to kill a lot of deer and elk. It needs to be based on science. The science says you need 15 breeding pairs to produce a sustainable wolf population in Washington. This is the science talking, not the emotion.


The wolf advocates were at the meeting and complained that the department's goal of 15 breeding pairs was much too low. I think that's why he said "countering the wolf lovers to keep numbers as low as possible". The WDFW has obviously done their homework and if they say 15 breeding pairs is good enough, then it is, and I have no doubt it's based on the best science available. But some people will never be happy with any number the WDFW comes up with, and they will always argue for a higher number. Reason for that- probably because they don't ever want to see wolves off the endangered species list in our state.

Offline robertg

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Tracker
  • **
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 63
Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #137 on: June 05, 2011, 08:51:24 AM »
Dale,
Judging by the public comments I heard at the meeting. Your group should be attending every meeting until this thing is finalized. 

My only suggestion is. When you guys speak to the commission. Make sure to leave out any emotion you may have pertaining to this issue. And make damned sure that all comments are fact based. If you let your emotions get out of check at these meetings. It just hurts any chance of being taken seriously. Comments to the commission should be well thought out and written out to stay on topic.

Unfortunately the wolf issue is what it is. They WILL be here to stay. The hurdle now will be. Countering the wolf lovers, to keep the numbers as low as possible. And the number of zones to thier current numbers.

You cannot keep the #s low because you are afraid the wolves are going to kill a lot of deer and elk. It needs to be based on science. The science says you need 15 breeding pairs to produce a sustainable wolf population in Washington. This is the science talking, not the emotion.


The wolf advocates were at the meeting and complained that the department's goal of 15 breeding pairs was much too low. I think that's why he said "countering the wolf lovers to keep numbers as low as possible". The WDFW has obviously done their homework and if they say 15 breeding pairs is good enough, then it is, and I have no doubt it's based on the best science available. But some people will never be happy with any number the WDFW comes up with, and they will always argue for a higher number. Reason for that- probably because they don't ever want to see wolves off the endangered species list in our state.

it needs to be based on science. Wolf lovers want more wolves and others want little to no wolves. Let the science do the talking. 15 breeding pairs is what the science says. If people want to disagree with what the science says, that's fine. Whether we agree with the science or not, the science is what it is.

Offline robertg

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Tracker
  • **
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 63
Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #138 on: June 05, 2011, 08:57:09 AM »
Dale,
Judging by the public comments I heard at the meeting. Your group should be attending every meeting until this thing is finalized. 

My only suggestion is. When you guys speak to the commission. Make sure to leave out any emotion you may have pertaining to this issue. And make damned sure that all comments are fact based. If you let your emotions get out of check at these meetings. It just hurts any chance of being taken seriously. Comments to the commission should be well thought out and written out to stay on topic.

Unfortunately the wolf issue is what it is. They WILL be here to stay. The hurdle now will be. Countering the wolf lovers, to keep the numbers as low as possible. And the number of zones to thier current numbers.

You cannot keep the #s low because you are afraid the wolves are going to kill a lot of deer and elk. It needs to be based on science. The science says you need 15 breeding pairs to produce a sustainable wolf population in Washington. This is the science talking, not the emotion.


The wolf advocates were at the meeting and complained that the department's goal of 15 breeding pairs was much too low. I think that's why he said "countering the wolf lovers to keep numbers as low as possible". The WDFW has obviously done their homework and if they say 15 breeding pairs is good enough, then it is, and I have no doubt it's based on the best science available. But some people will never be happy with any number the WDFW comes up with, and they will always argue for a higher number. Reason for that- probably because they don't ever want to see wolves off the endangered species list in our state.

it needs to be based on science. Wolf lovers want more wolves and others want little to no wolves. Let the science do the talking. 15 breeding pairs is what the science says. If people want to disagree with what the science says, that's fine. Whether we agree with the science or not, the science is what it is.

And I believe wdfw is going to listen to with what the science says and that is 15 breeding pairs. Wolf lovers are going to want more and others are going to want less. Some even want none. Science will reign supreme, not how many wolves some want and don't want in Wa.

Online Bob33

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 19212
  • Groups: SCI, RMEF, NRA
Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #139 on: June 05, 2011, 09:01:40 AM »
If "science reigns supreme" why are elk herds in Idaho and Montana being destroyed?  Do they need different scientists?
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline huntnfmly

  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (+17)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2007
  • Posts: 3494
Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #140 on: June 05, 2011, 09:02:55 AM »
If "science reigns supreme" why are elk herds in Idaho and Montana being destroyed?  Do they need different scientists?
:yeah:
I'm your dam tour guide arty...
Take as many dam pictures as you want ....
Are there any dam questions ..

Offline Elkaholic daWg

  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2009
  • Posts: 5516
  • Location: Arlington Wa USA
Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #141 on: June 05, 2011, 09:06:09 AM »
If "science reigns supreme" why are elk herds in Idaho and Montana being destroyed?  Do they need different scientists?
:yeah:


X2
Blue Ribbon Coalition
WSSA
NRA                        
Go DaWgs!!

Offline bobcat

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 37084
  • Location: Rochester
    • robert68
Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #142 on: June 05, 2011, 09:14:54 AM »
What I don't get is if it so important to restore wolves in this state, and other western states, why are they not restoring bison? At least people can eat bison. And, you'd think the wolf lovers would be pushing for it, since bison would provide a good food source for their beloved wolves.

Offline stumprat

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Posts: 1150
  • Location: Chehalis
Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #143 on: June 05, 2011, 09:26:27 AM »
Trust me. I am no fan of the wolf. I don't want any wolves here!!!!!!
I am just warning those of you that were not at the meeting. 2 of the people that commented. Brought up the fact that 15 breeding pairs was a low number. My fear is that the attacks on the WDFW's scientific integrity could add more numbers. Like it or not they are very concerned about public image. And the wolf lovers are not afraid to be heard.

If you want some viable input. Complaining on a website won't direct anything. You will need to be at these meetings. And signed in for public comment. Also make sure that you have done your research ahead of time.

Offline Jack Diamond

  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Nov 2010
  • Posts: 389
  • Location: Grant County
  • Groups: N.R.A., D.U.
Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #144 on: June 05, 2011, 09:39:03 AM »
Every time I review this thread,I just have to wonder if I am the only one who read the "novel" The Buffalo Commons. 
And I do not know if it is beneficial to attack the "science", but the science has been flawed here in this state before, simply to promote the "scientist" theory.
Adapt, improvise,overcome

Enjoy American Lamb, 10,000 coyote's can't be wrong!

Offline bearpaw

  • Family, Friends, Outdoors
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 33064
  • Location: Colville
  • "Rather Be Cougar Huntin"
    • http://www.facebook.com/DaleDenney
    • Bearpaw Outfitters
  • Groups: NRA, SCI, F4WM, IOGA, MOGA, CCOC, BBB, RMEF, WSTA, WSB
Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #145 on: June 05, 2011, 09:47:01 AM »
Dale,
Judging by the public comments I heard at the meeting. Your group should be attending every meeting until this thing is finalized. 

My only suggestion is. When you guys speak to the commission. Make sure to leave out any emotion you may have pertaining to this issue. And make damned sure that all comments are fact based. If you let your emotions get out of check at these meetings. It just hurts any chance of being taken seriously. Comments to the commission should be well thought out and written out to stay on topic.

Unfortunately the wolf issue is what it is. They WILL be here to stay. The hurdle now will be. Countering the wolf lovers, to keep the numbers as low as possible. And the number of zones to thier current numbers.

You cannot keep the #s low because you are afraid the wolves are going to kill a lot of deer and elk. It needs to be based on science. The science says you need 15 breeding pairs to produce a sustainable wolf population in Washington. This is the science talking, not the emotion.


The wolf advocates were at the meeting and complained that the department's goal of 15 breeding pairs was much too low. I think that's why he said "countering the wolf lovers to keep numbers as low as possible". The WDFW has obviously done their homework and if they say 15 breeding pairs is good enough, then it is, and I have no doubt it's based on the best science available. But some people will never be happy with any number the WDFW comes up with, and they will always argue for a higher number. Reason for that- probably because they don't ever want to see wolves off the endangered species list in our state.

it needs to be based on science. Wolf lovers want more wolves and others want little to no wolves. Let the science do the talking. 15 breeding pairs is what the science says. If people want to disagree with what the science says, that's fine. Whether we agree with the science or not, the science is what it is.

Here is the problem with "your science", your science is based on biologists who love wolves and studies scewed in favor of wolves. There are also scientists opposed to wolves, but the state F&G and media choose to ignore their warnings.

We have all seen the results of too many wolves in YNP, Idaho, MT, WI, MN, and WY. The "proven" science from those states now indicates the F&G and wolf lovers all want too many wolves for the land to support and that will cause great losses of other animal populations resulting in impacts to citizens and livestock as hungry wolves are forced to invade populated areas.

This scenario "wolf science" is already being orchestrated in Washington exactly as it was done in the other states, it started with the wolf lovers promoting wolves and infiltrating the F&G programs. Then the past WDFW director appointed a Wolf Working Group that was weighted heavy to wolf supporters, no wonder the working group recommended 15 bp's. The minority position recommended half as many wolves. FACT (its in the draft wolf plan)

You know that with the current wolf plan there will be far more than the 15 bp's on the ground (that you say you desire). For every "documented" breeding pair, there will most likely be two or thee bp's (packs) of wolves eating elk, deer, and moose. The WDFW can't even spray noxious weeds on their small holdings, or respond to all the cougar complaints, how can we think they will possibly find and document all the wolves in Washington. Then to top it off, you already know that wolf groups will sue in Washington courts to stop any management and that wolves will continue to populate.

That is the "proven" science of wolves in a NUTSHELL and you know all that is true.

Let's hear some more of your "false" wolf propaganda!
I want to thank you for helping to educate our members who have not been exposed to the same lies and deceit that occurred in ID/MT/WY/MN/WI/MI.  :twocents:
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

http://bearpawoutfitters.com Guided Hunts, Unguided, & Drop Camps in Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Wash. Hunts with tags available (no draw) for spring bear, fall bear, buffalo, cougar, elk, mule deer, turkey, whitetail, wolf! http://trophymaps.com DIY Hunting Maps are also offered.

Offline jackelope

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+23)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 42735
  • Location: Duvall, WA
  • Groups: WSB RMGA NRA RMEF BHA
Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #146 on: June 05, 2011, 09:47:43 AM »
Dale,
Judging by the public comments I heard at the meeting. Your group should be attending every meeting until this thing is finalized. 

My only suggestion is. When you guys speak to the commission. Make sure to leave out any emotion you may have pertaining to this issue. And make damned sure that all comments are fact based. If you let your emotions get out of check at these meetings. It just hurts any chance of being taken seriously. Comments to the commission should be well thought out and written out to stay on topic.

Unfortunately the wolf issue is what it is. They WILL be here to stay. The hurdle now will be. Countering the wolf lovers, to keep the numbers as low as possible. And the number of zones to thier current numbers.

Well said, Adna...
That is 99% of the reason for whats behind my posts and thoughts on this topic.
We can't just take the ..."wolves suck, kill them all" route.
We need some serious backbone to our argument.
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline stumprat

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Posts: 1150
  • Location: Chehalis
Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #147 on: June 05, 2011, 09:53:44 AM »
Trust me Dale,
I am on your side on this. I am just offering fair warning. Of what was said at the meeting.

Offline Elkaholic daWg

  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2009
  • Posts: 5516
  • Location: Arlington Wa USA
Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #148 on: June 05, 2011, 09:55:04 AM »
How about hytadid science?. Not sure the exact spelling
Blue Ribbon Coalition
WSSA
NRA                        
Go DaWgs!!

Offline jackelope

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+23)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 42735
  • Location: Duvall, WA
  • Groups: WSB RMGA NRA RMEF BHA
Re: Wolf Wars have moved to Washington
« Reply #149 on: June 05, 2011, 09:59:00 AM »
How about hytadid science?. Not sure the exact spelling
Just make sure you have the facts...not a bunch of he said she said stuff.
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

 


* Advertisement

* Recent Topics

2020 bears by HillHound
[Today at 07:19:30 AM]


WTS/WTT 16' Canoe by timberghost72
[Today at 06:33:22 AM]


F/S: 2008 BMW R1200GS adventure bike by Zuus
[Today at 06:31:02 AM]


2006 Duramax - PICS ADDED!!!! by trophyhunt
[Today at 06:16:36 AM]


Kuiu icon pro 5500 by jakeweb
[Today at 06:02:20 AM]


No Kettle Range tag holders? by Onewhohikes
[Today at 05:30:34 AM]


Hoyt Buffalo recurve two pairs of limbs by BigBullDreamer11
[Today at 05:05:57 AM]


Bear tooth age lookup wdfw? by BlackBellyHumpBack
[Today at 12:52:21 AM]


Tacoma Cerakote by dreadi
[Yesterday at 11:43:23 PM]


Play Free: Hunting-Washington $100 Monthly Lotto! by northwesthunter84
[Yesterday at 11:43:19 PM]


Leftover Multi-Season by robodad
[Yesterday at 11:02:47 PM]


RIP 180-GRAIN by MtnMuley
[Yesterday at 11:00:40 PM]


Vortex Strike eagle by Mulie87
[Yesterday at 10:40:29 PM]


Any funny trail cam pics out there? by Mfowl
[Yesterday at 10:35:41 PM]


WTS ruger red label by reloadxl650
[Yesterday at 10:11:15 PM]


Pay it Forward by Tiger1358
[Yesterday at 10:05:27 PM]


PSE Brute Force setup w/case $425 by occowboy79
[Yesterday at 10:01:05 PM]


OTC Brooks Range Dall sheep info. by Jonathan_S
[Yesterday at 09:48:47 PM]


Opening Weekend by stew pidasso
[Yesterday at 09:06:48 PM]


Who's hunted Green River 485? by westside bull
[Yesterday at 09:01:31 PM]