Hunters safety Frustration

[tmtimestwo]

Not sure if this is really the right place to post but... I have taken Hunters education as well as Bowhunters education in the state of Montana and now live here in WA. My oldest daughter is now ten and is ready to persue hunting afting many years of just being my shadow in the woods. So to make a long story short we signed her up for hunters education and have had our first two classes. My frustration and general poll I guess is I think that she is being short changed for two reasons, first off the class has 22 students which only four of are under 18.... I think that there should be two classes one for younger kids and one for adults as learning curves and styles very greatly between the two. My second is it seems as hunters safety has watered down the stewardship, ethics, morales, sportsmanship and fair chase portions and focused much more on general firearm training as it pertains to a non hunting citizen. Feels to politically driven and something that is more suited for a basics firearm class not hunters ed. I understand the safety aspect of it but do I really need 6 hours of the 9 hours of instruction to be based soley on safety, operation, function, types, familiarization of every firearm out there to get the point that you must be familiar with your weapon, be compfortable with it and practice to become proficient especially for a hunting device. Just my oppinion and was looking for some input from as I really would like to write a letter to the state to submit with my critique sheet but do not want to put any of the volunteers on blast or over step my bounds if I am missing abigger point here. Feedback please.

[DoubleJ]

Have you checked out the online class?  I always recommend that for a youngster because you can learn at your own pace and quit the program whenever and pick it back up where you left off.  My kids didn't have the attention span to sit in a class for 4 hours at a time.  The online was great.  They could sit down when they were focused and when that focus waned, we could shut it down and come back another time.

[newbie76]

I just took it as well and don't feel the same.  It must somewhat depend on the instructors. Mine took every opportunity to tell stories etc  that highlighted ethical hunters and good pointers on going above and beyond the rules.  Saying that...the class is about safety and basic information.  I believe it should  help each person develop their own moral code since that is going to vary between different people.  Coming from a family that does not hunt at and trying to get into the sport with no background at all it was informative and gave me a good framework to helping me make choices I want to make out in the field.

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[Bob33]

I'm an instructor; this is my perspective.

Our classes typically have a higher ratio of young students that the one you referenced. We often have several students under 12, and some classes we've had four under age ten. Some of these students do exceptionally well: better than adults in some instances. They are attentive and eager to learn. If they are too small to safely handle firearms, that's an issue.

The state mandates the curriculum, but every one of our instructors feels very strongly about ethical hunting and sportsmanship, and we do emphasize it throughout the course.

Ethics is somewhat of a delicate subject because one person's ethics may not match another's. The classic example is often shooting a duck on the water. It's legal, but is it ethical? Most would say not, but what if the duck is crippled? Do you tell students to never shoot a duck on the water? Is baiting a deer ethical? Should I tell you or your children never to do it? I'm sure some instructors would say that using a GPS and a laser rangefinder is not ethical. Some would say that shooting a deer at more than 300 yards is not ethical. Where do you draw the line, so that every instructor provides a consistent message?

Yes, the primary emphasis is firearm safety. Having a hunter shoot someone has severe consequencs, not only for the shooter and the victim, but every hunter. The story of the Washington bear hunter that shot and killed the hiker a few years back because he mistook her for a bear has echoed around the world, and nearly resulted in shutting down a month of bear season.

It's important to remember that the hunter education program in Washington is not designed to teach everything there is to know about hunting. The program would be far too long. There is some thought being given to offering some courses / training beyond the basic program. Several states are doing that.

I do hope that you find a course that your daughter enjoys. If she were in my area (King County) I'd encourage you to enroll her in one of our courses.

Best of luck to you and your daughter.

[ctwiggs1]

Look man, maybe this it my military roots coming out but here's how I see it:

The mandated gun safety is a croc anymore, all you're doing is checking the box.  There are some instructors who are downright passionate, and some who are just there to be there.  My wife took a class at the bow range in Enumclaw and it was great for her.  My neighbors kids took a class elsewhere - it was a terrible experience.  The state has watered it down horribly and it's almost 100% on the instructor to make it interesting and relevant.

In the end though.... It's on YOU to teach your daughter safety and on YOU to teach her good stewardship. 

Because of your concern, we all know she's going to turn to be a great hunter

[CP]

My   


It is up to you as the parent to fill in what you perceive as the gaps in the formal education.   Formal Hunter’s ed can only address the very basics and should be a supplement to a much broader education instilled by the parent.

[snowshoes22]

I'll give my take on it next week. I'm taking my little cousin to a course the 10th thru the 14th.  His parents have told him the last 3 years he could take it and never signed him up. So this year i just signed him up myself so he wasn't broken hearted for the 4th year in a row.

[longashes]

Remember, this is a state mandated program and does well do make sure that all hunters have at least been briefed on the basic rules of hunting and handling firearms. My boys have all been through HS when they reached age 9 and I sat through the classes each time.

Although I can appreciate the state mandating HS, they're the last place I would want or trust my children's ultimate hunting safety to ... That's what I'm for! 

[tmtimestwo]

appreciate all the feedback folks. I would tend to agree with most of your statements and trust me hunters safety is just a check in the block, eithics and fair chase and conservation will be learned in the field and at home with a great group of family mentors. I would definately agree on that. I just feel that a large part of our heritage, tradition and way of life is falling to the wayside due to the *censored* that screws it up for everyone and think that this would be and has been in the past the place to emphasise conservation, the reason for hunting and the respect that must be had for not just human life but taking the life of an animal. I do not believe in calling it a sport as it is not something you win or lose but something learned, lived and shared as being part of this world and part of nature as an animal ourselves. Again thank you and can only hope that those who take this class and do not have mentors to learn the fine points get what they need to keep the tradition alive. I guess I just keep reliving the post about the guy that lost his deer this year and reguardless of the scenario or others oppinions I beleive that he did the right thing in putting in that effort to find it and would only hope that others would do the same for those who don't are bound to do far worse than just walk away from a wonded animal and let it go to waste without giving it the respect and effort something like that deserves. I want to preserve this heritage to it's fullest.

[newbie76]

appreciate all the feedback folks. I would tend to agree with most of your statements and trust me hunters safety is just a check in the block, eithics and fair chase and conservation will be learned in the field and at home with a great group of family mentors. I would definately agree on that. I just feel that a large part of our heritage, tradition and way of life is falling to the wayside due to the *censored* that screws it up for everyone and think that this would be and has been in the past the place to emphasise conservation, the reason for hunting and the respect that must be had for not just human life but taking the life of an animal. I do not believe in calling it a sport as it is not something you win or lose but something learned, lived and shared as being part of this world and part of nature as an animal ourselves. Again thank you and can only hope that those who take this class and do not have mentors to learn the fine points get what they need to keep the tradition alive. I guess I just keep reliving the post about the guy that lost his deer this year and reguardless of the scenario or others oppinions I beleive that he did the right thing in putting in that effort to find it and would only hope that others would do the same for those who don't are bound to do far worse than just walk away from a wonded animal and let it go to waste without giving it the respect and effort something like that deserves. I want to preserve this heritage to it's fullest.

Well said!!!!

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[deerhunterdes13]

The class is political, everything she learns and does is because of you! Keep up the good work with safety and ethics, and just bear with it.

[dfresh96]

i just took my then 13 now 14 year old through the west seattle class in april, the same i took 6 years prior same instructors ...i even sat through it with her....i appreciate that these are volunteers who find time from there busy schedules to teach safety to all kinds hunters & nonhunters alike who were in class....

they also like to see 100% scores and give you every chance to achieve it no matter the age....

also remember when a hunting incident occurs it does go back on the instructor if they took hunter safety...

i just feel there are far more important things to worry about as a hunter than a free safety class....

[CAMPMEAT]

I think hunters ed is a croc. Have the parents teach their kids and give them a pass or fail. Geeze, you can home school your kids, so whay not be able to home school them on hunters ed ? When our State Patrolman showed up here 10 years ago I asked him if he hunted, he said, "no I have to take the hunters ed course". But he can arrest you, he can shoot you, but he can't hunt.............STUPID  !!!

[hrd2fnd]

I think hunters ed is a croc. Have the parents teach their kids and give them a pass or fail. Geeze, you can home school your kids, so whay not be able to home school them on hunters ed ? When our State Patrolman showed up here 10 years ago I asked him if he hunted, he said, "no I have to take the hunters ed course". But he can arrest you, he can shoot you, but he can't hunt.............STUPID  !!!

[KFhunter]

we had a long time deputy in the class when I took my boy through - he kept quite and didn't talk a whole lot, did his test and checked the box off.

Funny part he was armed the whole week, in the school lunchroom where we took the class.
Seems so stupid to have to waste this guys time with hunters safety.


Same with LE having to get CWP to buy a handgun or wait 5 days, I've seen armed LE with a duty gun on their hip not allowed to buy a handgun and walk out with it