Circuit Judge Rifle or Shotgun?

[ghosthunter]

I own a Circuit Judge. I hunt grouse with it. My buddy says it has to be plugged for grouse. I say on page  76 # 11 of the big game pamplet it exempts the judge because the Circuit Judge is a Rifle Carbine.

So I hunt with 3 shot loads and two 45 LC, but could have five shot shell if I wanted.

So lets here what everyone thinks.

You can hunt with a revolver and rat loads for grouse.

[callonetta]

3 shot restriction ONLY applies to Migratory Birds (waterfowl).

[runamuk]

3 shot restriction ONLY applies to Migratory Birds (waterfowl).

thats how I understand it

I hunt with 10-15 bullets if I am carrying my pistols when walking in woods looking for grouse

[ghosthunter]

3 shot restriction ONLY applies to Migratory Birds (waterfowl).

Grouse are game birds. Three shot applies on all shotguns. Same as pheasant.

[Ridgeratt]

I have been checked by WDFW for amount fo shells in a gun.

[callonetta]

Grouse is the only None Migratory game bird that you are allowed to shoot with rifle/pistol cartridge, I do not think that if you are in the woods carrying a...Ruger 10-22 with a full mag, the warden would write you a ticket, the Judge is a handgun.

[uplandhunter870]

pretty sure the three shotshell limit applies to all tubular magazine shotguns regardless of game type, quail ducks etc. ive been checked for a plugged shotty while quail hunting

[ghosthunter]

Grouse is the only None Migratory game bird that you are allowed to shoot with rifle/pistol cartridge, I do not think that if you are in the woods carrying a...Ruger 10-22 with a full mag, the warden would write you a ticket, the Judge is a handgun.

Just so we don't get off here. I have a Circuit Judge it is a rifle.

[deerslyr]

it doesnt need to be plugged for grouse

[Stilly bay]

So I hunt with 3 shot loads and two 45 LC, but could have five shot shell if I wanted.

So lets here what everyone thinks.

IF the three shot limit were in effect your ass would still be grass if the gamey checked you and you only had three shells loaded since your gun is still capable of holding and firing more than three shot shells    . that would be like having no plug in your pump shotgun but only loading the legal three shells when hunting ducks- or loading three steel shot loads and two slugs...if a gamey checks you, your going down no matter how good your intentions are.

luckily there is no shell limits for grouse.

[ghosthunter]

So I hunt with 3 shot loads and two 45 LC, but could have five shot shell if I wanted.

So lets here what everyone thinks.

IF the three shot limit were in effect your ass would still be grass if the gamey checked you and you only had three shells loaded since your gun is still capable of holding and firing more than three shot shells    . that would be like having no plug in your pump shotgun but only loading the legal three shells when hunting ducks- or loading three steel shot loads and two slugs...if a gamey checks you, your going down no matter how good your intentions are.

luckily there is no shell limits for grouse.

I agree except that there are shell limits for grouse if you are using a SHOTGUN.
The shell exemption is only for Rifle Or Handgun.
Thus my original question. With a rifle that can shoot .410?

[runamuk]

if it isnt a shotgun then shotgun rules dont apply

[scout/sniper]

if it isnt a shotgun then shotgun rules dont apply

The Circuit Judge is a crossover weapon. It is available as a smooth bore shotgun or a rifled barrel shotgun.
No matter how you look at it, it is a shotgun capable of shooting  .45 colt ammo. That is how Taurus marketed it.
You cannot hunt any game bird with a shotgun capable of holding more than 3 shells, regardless of cylinder or magazine style.
Sorry run, it's a shotgun at heart. 

[scout/sniper]

Thus my original question. With a rifle that can shoot .410?

It is a shotgun capable of shooting .45 Colt
It's not a rifle.

[runamuk]

if it isnt a shotgun then shotgun rules dont apply

The Circuit Judge is a crossover weapon. It is available as a smooth bore shotgun or a rifled barrel shotgun.
No matter how you look at it, it is a shotgun capable of shooting  .45 colt ammo. That is how Taurus marketed it.
You cannot hunt any game bird with a shotgun capable of holding more than 3 shells, regardless of cylinder or magazine style.
Sorry run, it's a shotgun at heart. 

I will never own one so wont be an issue for me my 410 is a break action single shot, one day i may upgrade to a old tooled side by side .....but wont be having one of those judge thingys....I dont really find them attractive....

[Bofire]

Page 16 Grouse are NOT upland game birds. Page 76 "It is illegal to: hunt game birds wioth a shotgun capable of holding more than three shells."

Carl

[ghosthunter]

if it isnt a shotgun then shotgun rules dont apply

The Circuit Judge is a crossover weapon. It is available as a smooth bore shotgun or a rifled barrel shotgun.
No matter how you look at it, it is a shotgun capable of shooting  .45 colt ammo. That is how Taurus marketed it.
You cannot hunt any game bird with a shotgun capable of holding more than 3 shells, regardless of cylinder or magazine style.
Sorry run, it's a shotgun at heart. 

All the manufacture adds state that it is a rfle Carbine capabale of shooting .410. It has iron sights and a rifled barrel with a revolver action.

It is exactly the same as a judge revolver so how can it be a a shotgun?

http://gunsforsale.com/rossi-circuit-judge-scj4510

http://www.rossiusa.com/pdf/warning_notice_circuit_judge.pdf

[bobcat]

If it has a rifled barrel it's not a shotgun. So I don't believe the 3 shot limit would apply.

And yes, the 3 shot limit for shotguns does apply to grouse hunting. At least that is the way I have always understood it to be.

[CP]

Use the plug:

Details
No amount of awesome can describe the Rossi Circuit Judge carbine! Based on the incredibly popular Taurus Judge line of handguns, this rifle is chambered for both .45 Colt and .410 shotshell. The Circuit Judge chambers 3" Magnum and standard 2 1/2" .410 shells.

The revolving cylinder holds five rounds, loaded in any manner you wish. The carbine also comes with a plug to limit the capacity to three shells to comply with certain hunting regulations.

The Circuit Judge delivers amazing versatility, accuracy and simplicity. It comes finished in a beautiful hardwood stock and includes the latest in modern features like a red fiber optic front sight, yoke detent, transfer bar and the Taurus Security System.

[ghosthunter]

SERVICE BULLETIN
ROSSI CIRCUIT JUDGE RIFLES AND SHOTGUNS
WARNING
1. The Rossi .45/.410 Circuit Judge is sold in North America only as a rifle.
2. No smooth bore versions of the Rossi .45/.410 Circuit Judge are imported or sold in North America.
3. Conversion of the Rossi .45/.410 Circuit Judge Rifle to a Smooth Bore Shotgun is impossible because there are
no parts available in the United States.
4. Due to the complexity of the firearm any conversion from its original configuration would have to be under the
supervision of a highly competent gunsmith.
5. Any changes made to any Rossi Firearm by anyone other than BrazTech LC, voids the warranty, and may prove
to be dangerous including serious injury or death.
6. Please note that the Rossi 28 Gauge Shotgun is sold as a smooth bore shotgun only. It may be illegal to sell in
various states or jurisdictions since it is a revolving cylinder shotgun – and is not rifled as is the Rossi .45/.410
Rifle.

[ghosthunter]

Use the plug:

Details
No amount of awesome can describe the Rossi Circuit Judge carbine! Based on the incredibly popular Taurus Judge line of handguns, this rifle is chambered for both .45 Colt and .410 shotshell. The Circuit Judge chambers 3" Magnum and standard 2 1/2" .410 shells.

The revolving cylinder holds five rounds, loaded in any manner you wish. The carbine also comes with a plug to limit the capacity to three shells to comply with certain hunting regulations.

The Circuit Judge delivers amazing versatility, accuracy and simplicity. It comes finished in a beautiful hardwood stock and includes the latest in modern features like a red fiber optic front sight, yoke detent, transfer bar and the Taurus Security System.

The plug does not meet Federal standards for Waterfowl because it can be easily removed without tools. Already had a federal agent tell me that.

[CP]

Well then you’re kind of at the mercy of whoever checks you in the field.  You can try the rifle argument on them, they may buy it.  But then again they may cite you.  A real judge might find in your favor, or not.

[ghosthunter]

Page 16 Grouse are NOT upland game birds. Page 76 "It is illegal to: hunt game birds wioth a shotgun capable of holding more than three shells."

Carl

grouse are GAME birds just not UPLAND.

The ciruit Judge is a rifle.

[fly-by]

Always assumed that the plug was too easy to remove to make it legal.  Interesting to hear someone has verified this.

Aside from the legality, how does it pattern? 

I got a Judge, sent it off the Ahlmans to have a choke tube put in it, and still didn't like the pattern.  Traded  it and got a scoped Ruger Mk I for grouse.  Been wondering if a Circuit Judge would have been a better choice and am still kind of interested in one versus a traditonal .22/.410 combo gun.  How do you like it?

[ghosthunter]

Well then you’re kind of at the mercy of whoever checks you in the field.  You can try the rifle argument on them, they may buy it.  But then again they may cite you.  A real judge might find in your favor, or not.

For me it seems clear. The manufacture has said it has sold no Circuit Judge .410/45 as Shotguns with a smooth bore in this country. All have been sold as a rifle.
Many handguns shoot shot loads, does that make them shotguns?

My whole reason for the post was to get this discussion started.

[ghosthunter]

Always assumed that the plug was too easy to remove to make it legal.  Interesting to hear someone has verified this.

Aside from the legality, how does it pattern? 

I got a Judge, sent it off the Ahlmans to have a choke tube put in it, and still didn't like the pattern.  Traded  it and got a scoped Ruger Mk I for grouse.  Been wondering if a Circuit Judge would have been a better choice and am still kind of interested in one versus a traditonal .22/.410 combo gun.  How do you like it?

I love my Judges , I own a Circuit Judge Stainless and a 2 1/2 Revolver, My son owns a Public Defender and carrys it daily.

For picky pattern guys the Circuit Judge will never win your heart. It is what it is a great camp gun or behind the truck seat gun. And will handle any small game or bad folks that come along.

I have killed grouse with it out to 70 or 80 feet with the shot tube in it. The .410/45 LC tube you have to be a little closer.

A .22 /.410 is a better choice if your only intent is to hunt grouse.
For me I wanted a rifle, that could be used as a light weight,camp,boat and home defense weapon. And I like the fact that I have a rifle and handgun that shoot the same ammo.

[sirmissalot]

I just want to know how it shots. Always thought they would be cool but the rifling has me wondering how it patterns

[fly-by]

[
I love my Judges , I own a Circuit Judge Stainless and a 2 1/2 Revolver, My son owns a Public Defender and carrys it daily.

For picky pattern guys the Circuit Judge will never win your heart. It is what it is a great camp gun or behind the truck seat gun. And will handle any small game or bad folks that come along.

I have killed grouse with it out to 70 or 80 feet with the shot tube in it. The .410/45 LC tube you have to be a little closer.

A .22 /.410 is a better choice if your only intent is to hunt grouse.
For me I wanted a rifle, that could be used as a light weight,camp,boat and home defense weapon. And I like the fact that I have a rifle and handgun that shoot the same ammo.
[/quote]

That sounds a lot better than the Judge, even with the straight rifled tube installed.  I could have lived with 25 yards for grouse.  I was gettting grouse sized holes in the pattern at 15 yards and 7 1/2 shot.

[ghosthunter]

Some loads shoot better than others.

[scout/sniper]

For me it seems clear. The manufacture has said it has sold no Circuit Judge .410/45 as Shotguns with a smooth bore in this country. All have been sold as a rifle.
Many handguns shoot shot loads, does that make them shotguns?
My whole reason for the post was to get this discussion started.

Here is the sales advertisement. Call it whatever you want to and take your chances. Just trying to help. 

Rossi is excited to introduce the new Taurus Circuit Judge, taking the most overwhelmingly successful revolver in recent history and extending its range for great hunting and shooting. This shotgun/rifle crossover offers the ability to shoot .410 gauge 3-inch magnum shotshells, .410 2.5-inch shotshells or .45 Colt ammunition in any order, without changing barrels.

Available in smooth bore shotgun or a rifled barrel shotgun, the Circuit Judge delivers amazing versatility, accuracy and simplicity. The Circuit Judge is offered in a blued finish with a beautiful hardwood Monte Carlo stock and includes the latest in modern features such as a single-action/double-action trigger, fiber optic front sight, yoke detent, cushioned recoil pad, transfer bar and the Taurus Security System®.

The Circuit Judge's barrel measures 18.5 inches long with an overall length of 38 inches and weighs 4.75 pounds.

This is from a dealer in Miami Florida, USA

[ghosthunter]

For me it seems clear. The manufacture has said it has sold no Circuit Judge .410/45 as Shotguns with a smooth bore in this country. All have been sold as a rifle.
Many handguns shoot shot loads, does that make them shotguns?
My whole reason for the post was to get this discussion started.

Here is the sales advertisement. Call it whatever you want to and take your chances. Just trying to help. 

Rossi is excited to introduce the new Taurus Circuit Judge, taking the most overwhelmingly successful revolver in recent history and extending its range for great hunting and shooting. This shotgun/rifle crossover offers the ability to shoot .410 gauge 3-inch magnum shotshells, .410 2.5-inch shotshells or .45 Colt ammunition in any order, without changing barrels.

Available in smooth bore shotgun or a rifled barrel shotgun, the Circuit Judge delivers amazing versatility, accuracy and simplicity. The Circuit Judge is offered in a blued finish with a beautiful hardwood Monte Carlo stock and includes the latest in modern features such as a single-action/double-action trigger, fiber optic front sight, yoke detent, cushioned recoil pad, transfer bar and the Taurus Security System®.

The Circuit Judge's barrel measures 18.5 inches long with an overall length of 38 inches and weighs 4.75 pounds.

This is from a dealer in Miami Florida, USA

That is not a quote frm the manufacture. It is a statement written by a company trying to sell the gun. 2ND Party.

I posted a statement from the Rossi site earlier.
Which says there were no shot gun models sold in North America. Only rifle models.

http://www.rossiusa.com/pdf/warning_notice_circuit_judge.pdf

[scout/sniper]

Good luck!

[Bofire]

  here is teh washington state RCW defiition of "shotgun"

19) "Shotgun" means a weapon with one or more barrels, designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.

Note the words "smooth bore"

so looks like you have a rifle!

[CP]

So then what would this be:

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?fid=024B&cid=011&tid=620

[rock]

It technically wouldn't be a shotgun, by WDFW standards, but could be used in firearm restricted areas for big game because a shotgun with a rifled barrel is allowed.

[ghosthunter]

It technically wouldn't be a shotgun, by WDFW standards, but could be used in firearm restricted areas for big game because a shotgun with a rifled barrel is allowed.

 

I would also note that the manufacture in that case  is not saying it is a rifle but that it is rifled.

Rossi has said they only sold rifles in North America.

[Special T]

I don't think the plug argument Flies... You can put in/ take out the plug on many pump shot guns with just the twist of a cap, so how would a couple of blanks in the revolver be any different?

This discussion just goes to show that thelaws are extremely convoluted and you are likely guilty unless you can prove to the gamie that you are in the clear.    I would argue that you are good to go however.

[Curly]

Yeah.............no plug required since it is a rifle.