Where did the grouse go?

[dreamunelk]

brush pickers dont help either they kill everything they can  legal or not.

Please state your source or is this just and opinion based on ignorance or racism?  Something that is not needed on this forum!  Comments like this make hunters & fishermen look bad.

I know WDFW officers, DNR, USFS, Tribal, & most of the timber security people.  In fact I have the privilege of working with them.  Guess what!  None would agree with your statement.  In fact it is rare to even find a firearm.  They search the rigs completely.  No blood, no fur, & no feathers!  Not saying it does not happen but, it is so rare that it does not even register.  They are not going to risk loosing their permit.

not all brush pickers are legal. have you been to gracys harbor lately and who the hell are you to judge me? i spend ever min i can in the woods.  I have seen them come out if the woods with 2 or 3 deer in there van. why does everyone always use the race card? are you one of the brush pickers who rape the land why us the tax payers pay for your rent and food while you clam you cant work but your really picking brush. it happens alot around gracys harbor ask any hunter who spends time scouting.

I live and work in Grays Harbor.  In fact I work and play in the woods!  I can guarantee you I spend more time in the woods than you.  I am all over the county and there is not many gates I don't have a key for.  You claim to have seen 2 or 3 deer in their van.  How did you see in the van?   How do you know they are illegal?  Did you report to the WDFW?  If so let me know the name of the officer.  I will check with them as I know them all!

[Fishaholic]

maybe you and your budys should go drive around promise land after you do that then we will talk. wdfw has never done but once when i called in someone shooting a duck at lake swano.

[Stump]

Spent a lot of time out in Swwashington high country, only saw 1 hatch this year. Most years 2 at least.

[Fishaholic]

anyways my favorive grouse hunting spot was shut down due to people dumping.

[AspenBud]

I suspect it's a habitat problem. Older growth forest and grouse do not go well together, they need mixed age forest. We don't log like we used to and that has led to older forests and changing cover for the birds.

If you take a look at the lakes states there is a lot of emphasis on cutting Aspen every so often to ensure there is habitat for them.

If herbicides are being used that probably means more cover and food sources for the birds is dying and as a result the grouse die too.

One other thing to consider is that grouse move on. If the habitat in one area changes you can bet that they will seek out something better. Covers age and become less productive. A good strategy for grouse is to always be looking for new covers and get out of the truck and beat the brush with a good dog.

[AspenBud]

http://www.fieldandstream.com/articles/hunting/birds/2006/10/true-cause-grouse-cycles

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/volunteer/sepoct10/grouse_cycle.html

I think in western Wa it mainly has to do with habitat: areas that hold many grouse for a few years will mature and not attract them, time to find a new spot.

predators are big reason: when rabbits have a boom in population the predators focus on them allowing the grouse numbers to build back up. the rabbit pop crashes and the predators go back to grouse.

Poor habitat and predation go hand in hand. Poor habitat for the birds exposes them to airborne predators like hawks and owls.

Bare forest floors are bad news. No food and no place to hide.

I've heard the rabbit theory before and know some guys who buy into it. Generally if you see more rabbits you can expect grouse numbers to crash and vice versa. I've also seen some talk about snowy owls moving south when their traditional prey gets depeleted every so often. If you see more of them you can expect grouse to take a hit for a while. It really is a cyclical thing in some ways on that front.

But again, what was a good cover ten years ago might well be trash today as far as the birds are concerned. A guy wanting to grouse hunt really needs to be constantly scouting for new areas. It's about boot leather, gas, and maybe putting the .22 away and buying a good dog and shotgun.

[PolarBear]

Grouse are very territorial.  If you shoot out a bunch in an area it might take many years for them to come back.  They end to stay in the same area their whole life and not venture off.  Between over harvest, fertilizers and poor chick survival many areas have gotten decimated. 

[Fishaholic]

cound to much under brush maybe a cause to i mean they use to let things burn now they put it out as fast as they can. nature has a way of taking care of her self.  not trying too sound like a hippy at all becasue i an not

[AspenBud]

cound to much under brush maybe a cause to i mean they use to let things burn now they put it out as fast as they can. nature has a way of taking care of her self.  not trying too sound like a hippy at all becasue i an not

Underbrush is something grouse like. But if I understand what you're getting at correctly then yes, the lack of burning is part of the problem. The Ruffed Grouse Society battles the Sierra Club all of the time over clear cutting Aspen in other parts of the country and it's in large part because we don't let forest fires burn. In the absence of fire, logging is the best way to create habitat for grouse and deer etc. Aspen will die after a certain amount of time but it will regenerate when it is cut. If that doesn't happen grouse lose habitat that they need. While Aspen isn't as big a player here on the west side, mixed age forest is, or rather we're losing it over time as logging has gotten more restricted and timber companies favor a monoculture of trees.

[AspenBud]

These guys are in the Midwest so the terrain is a little different, but ask yourself if the areas you're hunting have vegetation like this. I remember seeing something similar here back in the 80's, but how often do you see early successional forest like this anymore? For that matter, how much food (berries etc) do you see where you hunt them? If you're just road hunting you probably won't know, but if not, look around.

Ruffed Grouse Hunting

[Stilly bay]

But again, what was a good cover ten years ago might well be trash today as far as the birds are concerned. A guy wanting to grouse hunt really needs to be constantly scouting for new areas. It's about boot leather, gas, and maybe putting the .22 away and buying a good dog and shotgun.

exactly

Aspen bud, we need more serious grousers like you on this board to show everyone how its done. you got a chair in my camp any day.

[AspenBud]

In some ways it's a simple proposition. Looking for new covers with a bird dog is a net gain. On one hand you increase your odds of filling your game bag by finding new honey holes and on the other your dog learns to handle in the woods and how to handle grouse. Just make sure you buy a Garmin Alpha or Astro before doing so. 

It's really a shame that the RGS isn't more active here. Timber companies will do whatever they need to do to make a profit and if that includes less than ideal habitat so be it. That leaves state and federal forest land for the rest of us, and the Sierra Club and other misguided organizations have caused no small amount harm with their no logging stance and no opposition based in science against them.

That's how I see it at least.

[Stilly bay]

In some ways it's a simple proposition. Looking for new covers with a bird dog is a net gain. On one hand you increase your odds of filling your game bag by finding new honey holes and on the other your dog learns to handle in the woods and how to handle grouse. Just make sure you buy a Garmin Alpha or Astro before doing so. 

Astros are great investments, I can't figure out how we did without them so long... huge game changers.

It's really a shame that the RGS isn't more active here. Timber companies will do whatever they need to do to make a profit and if that includes less than ideal habitat so be it. That leaves state and federal forest land for the rest of us, and the Sierra Club and other misguided organizations have caused no small amount harm with their no logging stance and no opposition based in science against them.

That's how I see it at least.

granted if we managed for grouse or got the timber companies to cut trees to the RGS's bidding there would be more ruffed grouse, but I don't think we need RGS over here on the westside. many of the timber companies do a pretty good job of leaving "micro covers" and shelter belts, when their clear cuts come of age they all hold grouse.  the hardest part is getting access to these areas. more often than not you are parking at a gate and spending the whole day hiking on the hopes of locating some good cover. I agree state and federal forest land could use some manicuring but atleast we have the ability to drive in and do some exploring. not to mention cover that is good for the ruffed grouse isn't always good for the blue (now dusky and sooty) grouse or the spruce grouse... and  I would rather hunt blues (with a dog) they make ruffeds look like chumps.

[AspenBud]

In some ways it's a simple proposition. Looking for new covers with a bird dog is a net gain. On one hand you increase your odds of filling your game bag by finding new honey holes and on the other your dog learns to handle in the woods and how to handle grouse. Just make sure you buy a Garmin Alpha or Astro before doing so. 

Astros are great investments, I can't figure out how we did without them so long... huge game changers.

It's really a shame that the RGS isn't more active here. Timber companies will do whatever they need to do to make a profit and if that includes less than ideal habitat so be it. That leaves state and federal forest land for the rest of us, and the Sierra Club and other misguided organizations have caused no small amount harm with their no logging stance and no opposition based in science against them.

That's how I see it at least.

granted if we managed for grouse or got the timber companies to cut trees to the RGS's bidding there would be more ruffed grouse, but I don't think we need RGS over here on the westside. many of the timber companies do a pretty good job of leaving "micro covers" and shelter belts, when their clear cuts come of age they all hold grouse.  the hardest part is getting access to these areas. more often than not you are parking at a gate and spending the whole day hiking on the hopes of locating some good cover. I agree state and federal forest land could use some manicuring but atleast we have the ability to drive in and do some exploring. not to mention cover that is good for the ruffed grouse isn't always good for the blue (now dusky and sooty) grouse or the spruce grouse... and  I would rather hunt blues (with a dog) they make ruffeds look like chumps.

The Astro is great but I highly recommend the extended range antenna for the handheld and the tougher and longer antenna for the collar that DoubleU sells. The stock stuff that comes with the Astro is junk.

Closed gates, Google maps is your friend if you can figure out how to identify cuts with it. It's a great way to "scout" an area before you take the time and gas to physically check it out.

Blues are a bird i haven't tried before. Let me know if you ever need a hunting partner. 

[Stilly bay]

The Astro is great but I highly recommend the extended range antenna for the handheld and the tougher and longer antenna for the collar that DoubleU sells. The stock stuff that comes with the Astro is junk.

Closed gates, Google maps is your friend if you can figure out how to identify cuts with it. It's a great way to "scout" an area before you take the time and gas to physically check it out.

Blues are a bird i haven't tried before. Let me know if you ever need a hunting partner. 

the extended range antenna and the tough skin are a must for the 320, I kinda wish I waited for the alpha... but then Im still pretty happy with the 320 and my dog's necks are long enough to accommodate an ecollar, a GPS collar, and their normal ID collar.

if your still using google maps for scouting; check out google earth, garmin basecamp, and garmin birdseye. its almost as good as actually being there.