What kind of dog would prefer for a "non-pointing" type hunting dog? And why?

[Stilly bay]

It's got to be the pointer/setter guy in me that has to have the stand the hair up on the back of your neck lightning.

it is kind of harder to spot style or flash in a retriever than a pointy breed, but you know it when you see it. Kind of like good music, it doesn't matter what genre it is, when its good its good! Sounds like the dog you described wasn't so good.

You are right about the junk Labs of course, with no other hunting breed ( Goldens notwithstanding) is it more important to do a adequate research before buying, and to actually know what it is you are researching.

[wildweeds]

Stilly,

1 dog out of the dozen I watched,had zip,style,BIG water entry,enthusiasm,the other 11 were either Junk,overtrained into submission and a dislike for the work. 1 for a dozen is  about 1%,I guess I'm a 1% er when it comes to dogs.

It's got to be the pointer/setter guy in me that has to have the stand the hair up on the back of your neck lightning.

it is kind of harder to spot style or flash in a retriever than a pointy breed, but you know it when you see it. Kind of like good music, it doesn't matter what genre it is, when its good its good! Sounds like the dog you described wasn't so good.

You are right about the junk Labs of course, with no other hunting breed ( Goldens notwithstanding) is it more important to do a adequate research before buying, and to actually know what it is you are researching.

[huntingfool7]

8%

[JJD]

Plenty of junk labs too,I watched about a dozen dogs go at a test yesterday,Of a dozen I considered only one to be a candidate for ownership by me.I don't find it appealing to saunter up to waters edge,slip in easy,swim so slow that satelite navigation is  almost needed to even see forward progress,then return at the same speed hit the bank,drop the bird,shake off,and then need to be commanded to pick the bird back up. It's got to be the pointer/setter guy in me that has to have the stand the hair up on the back of your neck lightning.

Yup, popularity breeds some real garbage as a result of $$ to be made.  As in one dog breeding another = $$.
However, some of what you describe at the test is a result of training.  I have had a number of dogs who do the work just fine.  Only had one that would have made it in the "trials" games, but all my dogs worked well, obeyed commands and worked with great enthusiasm. I kind of get the impression that some guys are in such a hurry to get results, that they push their dogs too hard and kill much of their drive.  I've seen a few so beaten down that they would leave the line with their tail between their legs.  I think the trainers who are gifted, read a dog well enough to know how much pressure they can take and still retain enthusiasm for the work. 

[Stilly bay]

I guess I'm a 1% er when it comes to dogs.

They make a patch for that.

Yup, popularity breeds some real garbage as a result of $$ to be made.  As in one dog breeding another = $$.
However, some of what you describe at the test is a result of training.  I have had a number of dogs who do the work just fine.  Only had one that would have made it in the "trials" games, but all my dogs worked well, obeyed commands and worked with great enthusiasm. I kind of get the impression that some guys are in such a hurry to get results, that they push their dogs too hard and kill much of their drive. 

Too bad you don't end up making much $ if you do everything the right way.

The trend for the last  -40 years  ?? - is to breed for faster maturing dogs that can be trained and more or what some call finished at a very early age (1-2 years) lots of breeders have been selling it in seminars, books, and videos successfully because people want their bird dog RIGHT NOW. The trouble is "Joe average guy" who thinks he knows a little something about training buys a book or a DVD and works his new puppy into the ground with constant drills without focusing on fun . The thought of making a Lab unenthusiastic about retrieving is just nuts! but it happens all the time because people are trying to rush through the training process and all they end up with is a sloppy dog with a chit load of bad habits. Few people seem to realize with pups that ONE good retrieve is better than a 12 sloppy ones!!!

I think the trainers who are gifted, read a dog well enough to know how much pressure they can take and still retain enthusiasm for the work. 

  I think a lot of people can get away without being a gifted trainer as long as they are a patient trainer. Despite what ever gimmick training DVD you just bought, every dog is on a different schedule/learning curve and if you can't take enought time to figure out what that schedule is then you are not going to get the results you are after.

When starting out I wish some one would tell me the two most important things to focus on with your pup isPressure and enthusiasm
not pointing or retrieving or drills. If you make sure you are giving just the right amount of pressure, not too much or too little. And monitor the pup's enthusiasm like its a diabetic's blood sugar level, every thing else is just a walk in the park.

[Special T]

In training, probalby the most over looked fact is that 20 min of quality trianing each day is MUCH BETTER than 3 hours over the weekend.