***UPDATE: Feds make their move***World's first 3D printable handgun [banned]

[headshot5]

If you were a BG, which would be more likely to deter you and make you move on, someone confronting you with a sharp stick...or a plastic gun?

Plastic gun probably.  No BG wants to get sprayed with water.   

[netcoyote]

If you were a BG, which would be more likely to deter you and make you move on, someone confronting you with a sharp stick...or a plastic gun?

Plastic gun probably.  No BG wants to get sprayed with water.   

Beware any man sporting a plastic gun. 

[smg id=11929]

[pd]

I admit that I am not the most informed person when it comes to the Gun Control debate.  However, it seems to me that this innovation has completely changed the entire conversation.  You tell me if you agree with me.

For as long as I can remember (at least 30 years, perhaps more), the "Gun Banners" have tried to put ever stricter controls on legitimately purchased and owned firearms, especially hand guns, all in the hope of "saving even a single life."

Against this tide, the "Clingers" have pushed back, trying to make the point that gun crimes are not committed by the law-abiding, but rather by criminals (hence the "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" adage).  Thus, efforts to reduce gun violence should focus on interrupting criminal activities, and also treating the mentally ill.

For these past several decades, it has been a back-and-forth between the "Banners" and the "Clingers," without much new and interesting to say.

However, the all-plastic handgun, easily made on a 3D printer, now changes everything.  Why?  Because this innovation will be the proof that banning legitimately owned firearms can accomplish nothing.  Even removing all "approved firearms" from the public would have no impact, because anybody with access to the Internet and a $1,000 3D printer can now make his own handgun.

What do you think?

[netcoyote]

If nothing else, the original designer is sure making a name for himself. Here is some more information on the gun and a short video of it being shot.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/05/06/wiki-weapons-fires-first-100-3d-printed-handgun/
Liberator - Dawn of the Wiki Weapons

[magnanimous_j]

However, the all-plastic handgun, easily made on a 3D printer, now changes everything.  Why?  Because this innovation will be the proof that banning legitimately owned firearms can accomplish nothing.  Even removing all "approved firearms" from the public would have no impact, because anybody with access to the Internet and a $1,000 3D printer can now make his own handgun.

What do you think?

Anyone with access to simple metalworking tools has been able to make their own guns in their garage since forever. It's not even illegal. And those are a hell of a lot better than what a 3D plastic cutting machine can do.

3D printing might change a lot of things, but the status of gun availability is super far down that list.

[netcoyote]

***Just found this update.***
The Dept of Defense Trade Controls moved to block access to the download of 3D CAD data to build this gun. See it here:http://defcad.org/liberator/

"DEFCAD files are being removed from public access at the request of the US Department of Defense Trade Controls.
Until further notice, the United States government claims control of the information."

Interesting how fast the government can move when they feel threatened.
*******************************************

[Atroxus]

However, the all-plastic handgun, easily made on a 3D printer, now changes everything.  Why?  Because this innovation will be the proof that banning legitimately owned firearms can accomplish nothing.  Even removing all "approved firearms" from the public would have no impact, because anybody with access to the Internet and a $1,000 3D printer can now make his own handgun.

What do you think?

Anyone with access to simple metalworking tools has been able to make their own guns in their garage since forever. It's not even illegal. And those are a hell of a lot better than what a 3D plastic cutting machine can do.

3D printing might change a lot of things, but the status of gun availability is super far down that list.

Are you sure? I thought you had to have an FFL manufacturer license to manufacture guns? 

[pianoman9701]

I don't have a problem with a plastic gun being banned. Allowing production sounds like a set-up for security problems wherever they screen for firearms.

[netcoyote]

I don't have a problem with a plastic gun being banned. Allowing production sounds like a set-up for security problems wherever they screen for firearms.

This whole story highlights the futility of "banning" something. Whether it's speech, guns, software. internet access, etc. This genie is out of the bottle. In the two days that this site was up and offering free distribution, it had thousands of downloads that are now just as available as they were from the beginning. http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-takes-over-distribution-of-censored-3d-printable-gun-130510/
Situations like this really challenge the free thinkers among us. "Government shouldn't ban guns!...well ok, maybe THAT one is OK to ban..." That's the problem when you focus on an object rather than behavior.

Hard to make a call isn't it?

[pianoman9701]

It is a hard call to make. However, the purpose of this gun would be what exactly? You have a gun which, for all intents, looks like a toy - problem number one. Next, it's owner has the ability to overcome screening devices - problem two. The parts obviously can't handle more than one or two uses, so this is not a gun you're going to train with and hand down in your family generation after generation, possibly use for self protection or hunting or target shooting - problem three.

This is a copier-made zip gun, basically. Do you think that zip guns should be legal, too, Coyote? They aren't now and I don't see a single person in our gun crowd fighting for the right to own one.

[netcoyote]

It is a hard call to make. However, the purpose of this gun would be what exactly? You have a gun which, for all intents, looks like a toy - problem number one. Next, it's owner has the ability to overcome screening devices - problem two. The parts obviously can't handle more than one or two uses, so this is not a gun you're going to train with and hand down in your family generation after generation, possibly use for self protection or hunting or target shooting - problem three.

This is a copier-made zip gun, basically. Do you think that zip guns should be legal, too, Coyote? They aren't now and I don't see a single person in our gun crowd fighting for the right to own one.

First point, I'm not a proponent of this gun nor am I against it. To me, it's an assembly of piece of plastic. I'm just a techie that likes new technical innovations that challenge traditional thinking.  What it represents, I believe, is the real story.
To your points:
1) "Looks like a toy." Which is worse, something that looks like a toy, or something that looks like a real weapon, but IS a toy? More problems with that one I believe.
2) "Can overcome screening devices". So could a plastic knife. That technology has been available. If screening becomes available to detect it, BGs will just move on to something else.
3) "Parts can't handle more than a few uses". So now it's just a materials problem and gets us away from the basic issues. The materials problem will soon be solved. That's a given. There are too many other practical uses for this technology for this to not be solved.

So we are back to the core issues. First and Second amendment rights, open-source software distribution rights, internet freedom from government intrusion and probably a few others. This sure has opened a can of worms...


So, zip guns are illegal? But don't they have them in prisons?

[pianoman9701]

OK, we should allow them and distribute them far and wide. 

[pd]

It is a hard call to make. However, the purpose of this gun would be what exactly? You have a gun which, for all intents, looks like a toy - problem number one. Next, it's owner has the ability to overcome screening devices - problem two. The parts obviously can't handle more than one or two uses, so this is not a gun you're going to train with and hand down in your family generation after generation, possibly use for self protection or hunting or target shooting - problem three.

This is a copier-made zip gun, basically. Do you think that zip guns should be legal, too, Coyote? They aren't now and I don't see a single person in our gun crowd fighting for the right to own one.

Your points, PianoMan, are apt.  No, I don't know of anybody clamoring for the right to own a zip gun.  But the larger point was well made earlier in the discussion: The genie IS out of the bottle, and will never go back.  Sure, a metal lathe could help make a metal gun, but this 3D printing technology makes it very simple to make a single-use, even disposable, non-detectable hand gun.  The point here is common to the whole "Gun Control" debate: You cannot ban guns, because they are so simple to make.  You have to control the behavior, not the object.  On this point don't we all agree?

The issue of homemade nuclear bombs is very different.  Yes, the plans and recipes for such bombs are now widely available.  However, very few are capable of the physics or manufacturing required to make the bomb, and the materiel required is difficult to source.  Thus, controlling the ingredients is the solution to preventing proliferation.  But the situation for firearms is exactly the opposite: The materials and techniques required to make crude handguns is both inexpensive and easily obtained.  Therefore, controlling the ingredients (plans, printers, plastic) will not work.  Don't try to ban the guns, control the mentally unstable and criminal elements who would abuse them.

In summary, let us hope that the "Gun Banners" would now realize that they are tilting against windmills in the present debate.  To avoid gun violence, they must focus their efforts to control the behavior of those who would abuse firearms, and not try to control the supply (or legitimate use) of guns.

[bow4elk]

I have a MakerBot2 3D desktop printer at work...

[arees]

Plastic 3D printers are great and the costs are way down from when I was using them for prototyping 12 years ago.  The technique used now is entirely different.  Here is a look at the technology that will show up for home use in the next decade, Direct Metal Laser Sintering.

http://gpiprototype.com/services/dmls-direct-metal-laser-sintering.html?gclid=CP6owdTHgrcCFRSVMgodbnkASA

Yes, it is a 3D printer working in metal.  Expensive now, but we know which way the price will be going.

As far as the government banning the plans, that is pointless.  I was working on some file manipulation software that involved encryption and decryption.  The code we needed was banned for distribution in the US.  It was a crime to post it on a US based server.  Fortunately, there were links to non-US servers that hosted the software.  With a digitally connected world you can not put the genie back in the bottle.