bighorn powder and bullets

[PNWCOONASS]

Hey guys,

For those of you who remember me, I finnally made it back to the PNW after a long 7 month deployment. 

I bought a Knight bighorn last week, but sportsmens was out of powder.  I did a search and saw that 100-110 grains (using 30/50 combination) of powder using pellets would be a good load with a 310 grain bullets.  I live over in Port Orchard, any one have a good spot that you could point me to for powder and bullets...

I'm trying to get ready for elk and deer late season.  It's almost panic time...

thanks pete

[Selkirk]

When I lived on the wet side, I would go to Sportco (Fife), and the B&I (Tacoma) for powder, bullets, etc.  Call ahead to make sure they have what you want since you need to drive from Port Orchard.  Sportco is a membership store but non-members only pay an additional 5% above the marked price. 

[CP]

I just picked up a Bighorn a few days ago for a 2nd ML rifle.  I popped a scope on it and did a little range work on Sunday.  Results are below.  All were shot with 100 grains of triple 7 and the #11 nipple.  It’s a pain to disassemble and clean but it’s lighter than my .54 round ball shooter and more accurate at 100 yards.  I recommend that you use loose powder instead of the pellets, loose is cheaper and lights easier.   

The T/C Maxi Hunter 275 grain grouped best - 2 ½ inches @ 100 yards
The 385 gr Hornady Great Plains Bullet grouped pretty well.  2 ¾ inches @ 100 yards.
The 410 gr Hornady GPB was inaccurate – over 5 inches @ 100 y
The Knight 310 grain sabot was the worst – over 6 inches @ 100 Y

The Great Plains bullets kick like a mule, especially the 410gr. 

PS – What’s a (30/50 combination) ?

[p-ohana]

My bighorn loves 300gr QT bullets with 110gr of pyrodex. 1 50gr pellet and 2 30gr pellets. Shoots 1 1/2 in grps@100yds. I get all my gear at sportsmans wharehouse.

[bucksnort]

You might try Boerner's in gorst also.  They might have some or have someone closer.

[HawkenBob]

I used to get mine at the gun store off Wheaton way in Bremerton. I cant remember the name though. There accross from the Sizzler kind of on the East side. Along the side street, I believe Sulvan Way.

Now I buy at Sportco and use American Pioneer brand. Wonderful stuff. I can get near 40 shots without a cleaning. Actually I have never gumed it up yet to were it did not shoot.

Anybody else try it? I love the tubes it comes in. Once empty I refill using there bulk. My time between shots is pretty impressive. And for hunting the tubes would be awesome for carring extras.

[DBake]

I just picked up a Bighorn a few days ago for a 2nd ML rifle.  I popped a scope on it and did a little range work on Sunday.  Results are below.  All were shot with 100 grains of triple 7 and the #11 nipple.  It’s a pain to disassemble and clean but it’s lighter than my .54 round ball shooter and more accurate at 100 yards.  I recommend that you use loose powder instead of the pellets, loose is cheaper and lights easier.   

The T/C Maxi Hunter 275 grain grouped best - 2 ½ inches @ 100 yards
The 385 gr Hornady Great Plains Bullet grouped pretty well.  2 ¾ inches @ 100 yards.
The 410 gr Hornady GPB was inaccurate – over 5 inches @ 100 y
The Knight 310 grain sabot was the worst – over 6 inches @ 100 Y

The Great Plains bullets kick like a mule, especially the 410gr. 

PS – What’s a (30/50 combination) ?

Combination of 50 grain pellets and 30 grain pellets to equal total grainage. For example, to get 130 grains, you would use 2 50's grains and 1 30 grain. To get 90 grains, you would use 3 30's.

I am surprised that you did not have good success with the 310 grain Knight saboted bullet, especially with a Knight rifle.

Did you use any lube with the Hornady GPB? I am hesitant of using a non saboted bullets.

[CP]

Thanks.

I talked to Knight customer service and he thinks my barrel is too tight for the black sabot (the petals deform on loading).  He is mailing me some of the looser fitting orange ones.  Pretty good customer service.

The GPB comes pre-lubed with a waxy type lube.  I added some bore butter at first but it isn’t necessary.  The T/C is pre-lubed with bore butter.

[bucksnort]

The store on Wheaton used to be called Gehring Brothers.  Don't know if it still is

[marc10000]

I just picked up a Bighorn a few days ago for a 2nd ML rifle.  I popped a scope on it and did a little range work on Sunday.  Results are below.  All were shot with 100 grains of triple 7 and the #11 nipple.  It's a pain to disassemble and clean but it's lighter than my .54 round ball shooter and more accurate at 100 yards.  I recommend that you use loose powder instead of the pellets, loose is cheaper and lights easier.   

The T/C Maxi Hunter 275 grain grouped best - 2 ½ inches @ 100 yards
The 385 gr Hornady Great Plains Bullet grouped pretty well.  2 ¾ inches @ 100 yards.
The 410 gr Hornady GPB was inaccurate – over 5 inches @ 100 y
The Knight 310 grain sabot was the worst – over 6 inches @ 100 Y

The Great Plains bullets kick like a mule, especially the 410gr. 

PS – What’s a (30/50 combination) ?

The GPB have hollow bases and the 100 grain powder charge expands the base of the bullet into the rifling grooves in the bore. It produces more friction and more pressure. The heavy GPB shooting 100 grains of propellant are getting close to the max pressures that are recommended.

I would get a Lymans Black Powder Manual. When you read about charges, bullet weights, chamber pressures it will make you change some habits. I'm lucky I didn't blow myself up when I first started. Thank God TC Black Diamonds have quality barrels that can take it!

[shag]

Knight make Sabots I think that are designed especially for their rifles.   

[DBake]

I just picked up a Bighorn a few days ago for a 2nd ML rifle.  I popped a scope on it and did a little range work on Sunday.  Results are below.  All were shot with 100 grains of triple 7 and the #11 nipple.  It's a pain to disassemble and clean but it's lighter than my .54 round ball shooter and more accurate at 100 yards.  I recommend that you use loose powder instead of the pellets, loose is cheaper and lights easier.   

The T/C Maxi Hunter 275 grain grouped best - 2 ½ inches @ 100 yards
The 385 gr Hornady Great Plains Bullet grouped pretty well.  2 ¾ inches @ 100 yards.
The 410 gr Hornady GPB was inaccurate – over 5 inches @ 100 y
The Knight 310 grain sabot was the worst – over 6 inches @ 100 Y

The Great Plains bullets kick like a mule, especially the 410gr. 

PS – What’s a (30/50 combination) ?

The GPB have hollow bases and the 100 grain powder charge expands the base of the bullet into the rifling grooves in the bore. It produces more friction and more pressure. The heavy GPB shooting 100 grains of propellant are getting close to the max pressures that are recommended.

I would get a Lymans Black Powder Manual. When you read about charges, bullet weights, chamber pressures it will make you change some habits. I'm lucky I didn't blow myself up when I first started. Thank God TC Black Diamonds have quality barrels that can take it!

What is your bullet/powder combo?

[marc10000]

When people are new to Muzzle Loading it is easy to misunderstand the way it works. I did. First of all if you have been hunting modern rifle for a long time, you have to quit trying to turn your Bighorn into a 30-06, ain't gonna happen.

Generally you shoot heavier charges with lighter bullets, (saboted bullets). You shoot lighter charges with heavier bullets. The heavy conicals have weight and this energy at rest (potential energy) has to be overcome. It takes longer to get the bullet moving and all the while the breech pressures are building, so you back off the amount of powder you use.

Most Muzzle loaders try for breech pressures from 10,000 to 20,000 PSI, some of the older guns and the older Italian guns are only safe to 10,000. Guns like the bighorn are proofed higher like 25,000. If you put 120 grains of powder behind a 430 grain conical you can push the pressures upwards of 20,000 PSI and that is a lot of pressure.

I shoot 100 grains with lighter saboted bullets and 65-80 grains with big heavy conicals. Somebody once said that you can kill any deer in North America with 65 grains of black powder. To each his own and I hope I'm not sounding like a know it all, but be careful! Happy hunting

[stumprat]

I shoot a Bighorn loaded with 90 grains triple7 ffg, and a knight 310 grain bullet. I'm getting 2 1/2" groups at 100 yards. Miss shaped sabot petals have had no effect on my bullet performance.

[CP]

Knight does not recommend bore sized conicals because their tests have shown that a conical can move off the powder charge during a busy day (or days ) of hunting and extra space between the charge and the projectile can cause excessive pressure when fired.  Sabots, having more friction with the bore, are less likely to move after loading.  (Knight’s opinion, not necessarily mine).

But after making the above non-recommendation Knight goes on to recommend the 440 grain HYDRA-CON by Parker products.  Both Knight and Parker recommend 100 grains of FF as the starting load for this massive slug.  I haven’t tried the Hydra-con and don’t intend to, over an ounce of lead seems a bit excessive.

I like the GPB, but I wish they made it in a lighter version.

I also wish that I could get the groups that they rest of you are with the sabots.  So far though I’m not, but I’ll keep working on it.

[Sagedawg]

 I want to try some of the Hydra Cons, but nobody around here has them. Youd think as big as the Cabelas is in Post Falls, their muzzy supplies would be bigger and with better selection.



  Sage

[CP]

You can order them from Knight or Parker.

http://www.parkerproductionsinc.com/agora/agora.cgi?product=Bore_Size&ppinc=1a

[marc10000]

The whole point is if the big slugs are hollow based. TC's are not and it makes a big difference. I've had 2 incidents in shooting BP rifles that were scary one was shooting the CVA Buckslayers with 100 grains of Pioneer powder. The gun kicked and felt like it dislocated my shoulder. Immediately I thought this isn't normal then I found out that there have been kabooms using these bullets with heavy powder charges. I had a close call.

Hollow based bullets tend to kick a lot.

[marc10000]

I thought I would add a little more about the big conicals. Using the Lymans Black Powder Handbook and Loading Manual, I noticed that with the big conicals more powder doesn't really make em go that much faster. This is a .54 caliber, 1-32 twist, 32" BBL, 450 grain Lyman Bullet using Pyrodex RS, cci #11 cap:

60gr  1143 fps
90gr  1360 fps
120   1521 fps

So at some point you have to wonder about diminishing returns. Keep in mind that terminal velocity @100yds is only a few 100 fps less than muzzle velocity. In the old days the Black Powder .45-70 was a 500 grain bullet with 70 grains of black powder. It effectively handled all game even Buffalo.

Shooting a 450 grain slug at 1100 fps is really an effective round. It's actually faster than your average .40SW bullet at muzzle velocity, and 100yds downrange is still faster than .45ACP at muzzle velocity. Also at 65 grains it's comfortable to shoot and extremely accurate, or at least much more accurate. Just some of my thoughts on the subject. Happy hunting!

[CP]

Point taken on the minie ball skirt.  I’ve requested load data from both Knight and Hornady but no response so far.  But I don’t think that I’m over pressure at 100grs.  Getting close …. Maybe. 

[marc10000]

The good thing about Knight rifles is that they are quality. I would trust their barrels above any other brand.

[sss5358]

Lots of good info on this thread.  Just want to add that at a point you can use too much powder even though your rifle is rated for a higher load.  The unburnt powder will empty out the barrel and gain you nothing. Trick is to find the bullet and load that works for your particular rifle. I would pay attention to other shooters who use the same rifle.

I shoot an older TC Thunderhawk with 110 grains of double F 777 against a 360 grain Keith nose soft lead sabot made by precision rifle. Probably to late to be experimenting though. But you may want to after the season is over.