Tire Chains - Snow in the Mountains - Yes You

[LndShrk]

If your in a lightweight rock crawler or toyota, yes a big fat tire aired down can get you to float - until the snow turns to mashed potatoes with sunshine.


snow is not snow - there's so many different types of snow and snow conditions - all varied throught the day with temps and sunshine. 

The only consistant way to travel through snow is to chew down through it.  If you have a big fat tire then your chains will have to work that much harder to move the snow out of the way to hit the dirt, then your surface area will be bigger and you'll get less bite.   Over here with hood deep powder snow, which you can get over night your big fatty tires are going to try to float and ride up on the snow, your tires will hop and you'll have to back out of it or destroy your drive train.

Not necessarily the case. Tread will go along ways to grab snow. and more importantly will be ones differential. Digging into deep snow often leads to being high centered. Staying ontop is not a bad thing at all. 

[Special T]

IMO tire width is dependent on conditions. Tires are application specific and do better when in the proper conditions. Large trucks, half ton and larger won't float on snow no matter how wide a tire you get them they are just too heavy. so tall skinny tires are a must to keep traction, that also means they won't go places a light Toyota with 14 in wide aired down balloon tires will go.  Skinny vs wide is just a rule of thumb not a hard fast rule. I know plenty of people with light rigs (including myself) that run pizza cutters in really deep snow, but its on the west side and once it hits the 2.5' mark were kinda screwed. Same rigs with tall wide balloons aired down are almost unstopable.

[sakoshooter]

When the kids were young we used to get a permit to cut a Christmas tree up in the hills off the Skate Cr Rd out of Ashford. About 4 families, beer and food. Made a day of it. We always let 'unnamed' with his black Toyota 4WD and no chains go first. Where ever he ended up is where we set up cooking, drinking and cutting trees. The rest of us all had 2WD rigs with chains. More than once I'd have to pull out the 4WD so we could go home with my 2WD w/chains. By the way, my 2WD in those days was a Mazda ext cab PU.
As for pulling someone out, I'll do it every time but to venture forth without knowing someone will pull you out is pretty selfish thinking when you're talking about public roads. Most hunters are not up there to tow, they're up there to hunt.

[DRobnsn]

IMO tire width is dependent on conditions. Tires are application specific and do better when in the proper conditions. Large trucks, half ton and larger won't float on snow no matter how wide a tire you get them they are just too heavy. so tall skinny tires are a must to keep traction, that also means they won't go places a light Toyota with 14 in wide aired down balloon tires will go.  Skinny vs wide is just a rule of thumb not a hard fast rule. I know plenty of people with light rigs (including myself) that run pizza cutters in really deep snow, but its on the west side and once it hits the 2.5' mark were kinda screwed. Same rigs with tall wide balloons aired down are almost unstopable.

While for the most part I agree I will say this. About 4 years ago give or take, I was Elk hunting the Trout lake area and we got a good blast of snow over night and into the next morning. I've never seen so many stuck rigs they were everywhere. So much so we had spent most of the morning driving around people hunting was pretty much a bust by the time we got to our spot. So I decided why not just see how far I can go. I had a 91 reg cab Toyota with 31 10.50 cooper mud tires aired down to 6psi in rear and 9psi in front. So we head up as high as we could within a reasonable amount of time. We ended up on about 5' of snow, we decided to turn around and head back since we hadn't seen anyone for over an hour, when up over the hill comes a 3rd gen Dodge Cummins Mega cab with 37 12.5 mud tires, toyo's I believe. We stop and bs for a minute I said wow I'm surprised to see that up here he says yeah I'm aired down about as far as I can go but it's doing pretty well. We both went our separate ways. Now I know he couldn't just drive right off the road anywhere he wanted like I could but it can be done in a full size to an extent. BTW I did pull out one guy in a Durango he was grateful. I offered to pull out others but most weren't having it, they said no I'll put on my chains or my buddy is on his way. I said okay and let them sit in the middle of the road while I drove around them in the ditch.

[buglebuster]

A few years ago hunting late muzzy season by mt adams we decided to go check out king mountain, right by the rez. There was alot of snow, and still snowing. As we approached the steep climb there was 1 jeep at the bottom with narrow mud terrain tires. He could not make it up he said, to slick underneath and to much fresh snow. Halfway up was a toyota stuck trying to back down. Once again stock narrow tires he backed down and said good luck. We were in a lifted f250 powerstroke with 35x 12.5 bfg all terrain tires fully aired up. Walked up that hill with zero issues and killed an elk because no one was up there

[KFhunter]

Ask pretty much any snowmobiler around how many abandoned rigs they've come across that thought they were hotchit floating on the snow a few miles back.

No one can rescue you when you sink, and odds are very bad that once you've sunk you'll be able to get back on top.


You think a tow truck is going to get back there to save you?

[DRobnsn]

Ask pretty much any snowmobiler around how many abandoned rigs they've come across that thought they were hotchit floating on the snow a few miles back.

No one can rescue you when you sink, and odds are very bad that once you've sunk you'll be able to get back on top.


You think a tow truck is going to get back there to save you?

I typically don't go it alone, the trout lake trip was an exception. I always carry a high lift and with a spare tire or chunk of wood or whatever to keep the jack from sinking you can lift it out of the holes and push it over on high ground. A couple years back I went up by walupt lake late in the snow season with the same truck mentioned earlier had a friend in a Jeep following. The snow was total crap all different kinds of layers, aired down we made it into 6' plus deep snow it wasn't easy but we did it. I ended up sinking a fair amount but with a shovel, high lift and a tug from the jeep I got right back on top. Yes anything can happen but being prepared helps allot. On that trip I had less than 3lbs of air in my tires no beadlocks.   

 

[KFhunter]

I know all about wheeling in snow like you mention, I just don't think this is the best advice to give out on a hunting forum - a wheeling forum perhaps would be a better place for doing that. 


So for west coast guys driving over the mountains for a week of late season hunting it's not so wise to come over on I-90 with a set of 38" mudders.  Those tall low profile "mudders" are the worst!

The prudent thing to do is run highway skinny snow tires and have snow chains, unless you really mess up you'll always be able to claw your way back out.  No you aren't going to dance across the snow like gutted out toyota on aired down ballons, but you'll be safer on the highways and maybe not slide over on a 2 lane road because you hit an inch of slush and kill someone's wife.

[sakoshooter]

I think a lot depends on the condition of the snow in question. Powdery snow displaces very easy and of course, packed snow that's had time to settle can be driven over or thru under certain circumstances but for the most part what I've seen during hunting season in eastern WA is wet snow just like cement. And until the ground is frozen and the base layer of snow is adhered to the ground, it's a mess. The roads end up with two big dished out ruts in them that freeze at night so you can't get out of them without chains and coming down some of those roads under these conditions is just plain dangerous.
About 16-18 yrs ago my son, buddy's and I were camped up the 1701 rd in the Umtanum. L at the Y and camped on the L at the next Y just before the steep climb up to Canteen Flats I believe it's called. About a foot of fresh snow when we got here for modern elk. About a day in it snowed another foot. It warmed enough during the day that the sun would melt it enough that the 1701 coming down from the top was a bobsled track and everyone up there was coming down but they were doing it with chains on their campers with the trailer brakes locked up. Basically dragging them down very slowly. The area we were camped in turned into a chain up and chain off spot for a couple of days. Very dangerous under those conditions without chains. Same year I spoke with two guys that lost control of their Toyota PU because they didn't have chains coming down from the look out and lost it on the sharp R turn half way down. Truck went a couple hundred yds before hitting some trees.
Something else to consider is that you can leave your chains on when driving on dirt roads if you're going to get right back into the snow. Just go slow.

[sakoshooter]

Another thing about comparing all these trucks and big tires etc is that some of those trucks have posi-traction. Some have after market lockers. Many of the older trucks didn't even have locking differentials and some of the older limited slip rear ends only allowed one side or the other to have traction. Apples to Oranges in some ways.

[DRobnsn]

"truck 18 at the 12 mile, starting down off the beaver slide"

1/2 jake to keep the tires rolling, 5 lbs air on the trailer brake - gotta keep the tires rolling....gaining speed, good thing I went off the top at a crawl.  too much jake RPM the drivers locking up.. don't jake stall the engine!  pick up a gear - still gaining speed almost off the slide - tires rolling? good - trailer locked up crap! less air less air, good they're rolling again - too much speed, can't stop now

"truck 18 in the beaver slide!"

"truck 5 we're pulled over at the 11"


almost down, too fast but we got some mud now, slush was filling up the chains but mud is little better, still slimy and thick though - more jake 8 lbs air on the trailer drag - stab the main brakes a little whew we're droppin speed looks like we'll make the corner

"truck 18 off the slide - cleanin out the britches"

"hehe - she's getting slick huh"

  love it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, didin't sako start this thread out talking about leaving camp and driving halfway into the woods to get out of the ruts so someone could pass? My impression wasn't highway ice snow conditions it was off pavement deepish snow and ice at slow speeds?

   

[KFhunter]

"truck 18 at the 12 mile, starting down off the beaver slide"

1/2 jake to keep the tires rolling, 5 lbs air on the trailer brake - gotta keep the tires rolling....gaining speed, good thing I went off the top at a crawl.  too much jake RPM the drivers locking up.. don't jake stall the engine!  pick up a gear - still gaining speed almost off the slide - tires rolling? good - trailer locked up crap! less air less air, good they're rolling again - too much speed, can't stop now

"truck 18 in the beaver slide!"

"truck 5 we're pulled over at the 11"


almost down, too fast but we got some mud now, slush was filling up the chains but mud is little better, still slimy and thick though - more jake 8 lbs air on the trailer drag - stab the main brakes a little whew we're droppin speed looks like we'll make the corner

"truck 18 off the slide - cleanin out the britches"

"hehe - she's getting slick huh"

  love it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, didin't sako start this thread out talking about leaving camp and driving halfway into the woods to get out of the ruts so someone could pass? My impression wasn't highway ice snow conditions it was off pavement deepish snow and ice at slow speeds?

   

I was going to rewrite that 'cause I didn't think it made much since unless you knew what I was talking about 

[DRobnsn]

"truck 18 at the 12 mile, starting down off the beaver slide"

1/2 jake to keep the tires rolling, 5 lbs air on the trailer brake - gotta keep the tires rolling....gaining speed, good thing I went off the top at a crawl.  too much jake RPM the drivers locking up.. don't jake stall the engine!  pick up a gear - still gaining speed almost off the slide - tires rolling? good - trailer locked up crap! less air less air, good they're rolling again - too much speed, can't stop now

"truck 18 in the beaver slide!"

"truck 5 we're pulled over at the 11"


almost down, too fast but we got some mud now, slush was filling up the chains but mud is little better, still slimy and thick though - more jake 8 lbs air on the trailer drag - stab the main brakes a little whew we're droppin speed looks like we'll make the corner

"truck 18 off the slide - cleanin out the britches"

"hehe - she's getting slick huh"

  love it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, didin't sako start this thread out talking about leaving camp and driving halfway into the woods to get out of the ruts so someone could pass? My impression wasn't highway ice snow conditions it was off pavement deepish snow and ice at slow speeds?

   

I was going to rewrite that 'cause I didn't think it made much since unless you knew what I was talking about 

No need to rewrite it. I've driven a few trucks in my day but nothing like that! I rode with my grandpa in his log truck years ago, loved every minute of it!   

[sakoshooter]

Last year opening weekend of late archery elk I broke trail up the 1601 rd out of the Nile up to the 1605 rd. All 4 chained up to do so plus cut two trees up that had the rd blocked. A guy in the camp next to me said he was wanting to get up there and hunt but couldn't without chains and thanked me for breaking trail. He was driving a Toyota 4Runner. He told me that he tried but just wheel hopped all over and couldn't get any traction.

[YoterHunter]

I get stuck more with chains then with out on my Toyota . Cain dig threw the hard pan. I like to ride on the top of snow. but I do have chains for all 4 tires.