Free: Contests & Raffles.
QuoteI can see the net is not a place for discussion..... as what I was trying to simply say was (my feeling right or wrong) is that they are no longer using their lands for strictly growing trees. They have stepped into a "for profit" land use situation and this should be considered a seperate use for the land in which they should be taxed for HOW THE LAND IS USED. The minute they started taking money for access the tax on that property should be changed, they could lock it down, that's fine. So here is something I have been pondering. In response to the above. A Golf Course pays a Property Tax with DOR Code 94 Open Space Land in accordance with RCW 84.34... So where is it captured that they are profiting from revenue generated charging members (or public depending on the golf course). They are not strictly using the property for Open Space. What I am wondering is how is it that timber should get taxed more on property taxes because they have access fees, but their is no outcry for golf-courses to pay more for having all their fees. Am I wrong in thinking these are similar situations, is it fair to only go after timber properties?
I can see the net is not a place for discussion..... as what I was trying to simply say was (my feeling right or wrong) is that they are no longer using their lands for strictly growing trees. They have stepped into a "for profit" land use situation and this should be considered a seperate use for the land in which they should be taxed for HOW THE LAND IS USED. The minute they started taking money for access the tax on that property should be changed, they could lock it down, that's fine.
I believe 5000 Acres was used as a guideline by the Gray's Harbor County commissioners. Not sure.No one said that WEYCO is breaking the law and no one said that open public land use was in the tax code. They aren't and it isn't. However, when that code was written, the assumption was made that WEYCO would continue to cooperate with the state and its residents in allowing use of their inactive parcels for recreation. A lot has changed, specifically large timber companies changing to a pay-to-play system. So, many think that the structure of the tax code should change as well. I get it that you're not one of them.
Heres the big difference: to enroll in this (open space-open space) category you must show, on paper, that you provide specific PUBLIC BENEFITS and each single benefit gets you so many "points" and as these points lower the taxable value as they add up. Public Access is specifically identified as one of the eligible benefits. You can CHOOSE to let the public on the property, and this is worth an extra 10% or so off the value of the property. Its called a weighted benefit system. This is a huge difference from timberland, where every landowner gets the same full tax break regardless of that particular land's public benefits. This weighted benefit system could be the model for re-vamping the tax on timberland--a base rate, then if non-motorized public access is allowed the value is further reduced, if motorized access, it could be again reduced.
Great information Fireweed. So not only do the open space-open space properties pay a lump sum tax up front, they only get breaks depending on which services they offer the public. I agree it would be a good idea to look at for any changes that would affect how timber companies are tax in the future,
I remeber reading about a similar lawsuit on the east coast. It was actually between a high end duck club and a state about taxable land use. There was also some kind of tax break for "open space" but the state made the case that if you charge $ to access it, it becomes recreational property and lies under a different tax catagory. I want to say the article was in Outdoor Life or Feild and stream a couple years back.
Quote from: pianoman9701 on August 12, 2014, 02:11:15 PMQuote from: headshot5 on August 12, 2014, 02:00:20 PMQuoteBack in 71 there were very few gates. It was considered "normal" to take the 4x4 for a drive in the woods. Set up a tent, may do some fishing or hunting on "private" timberland. We have been told that gates are necessary to prevent theft, vandolism & dumping garbage. We were told that gates did not impare our ability to enjoy the land just changed it.We are now told that a permitt is neccesary to pay for the enforcement on the land reducing the Theft, vandalism and dumping.IF good timberland sells for $500-1000 an acre but is only taxed at $130 ish that means the public is supposed to get something out of the deal. When the mistical "value" of my home goes up My taxes do as well.So far, all I have heard is it was assumed public access would be free. Not all assumptions are true. Nothing in the law reflects this access, and I don't think it should, at least not in property taxes. I agree maybe the DOR needs to adjust their calculator. I don't think it should reflect public access though. Public access doesn't make trees grow faster or more straight, or change the physical attributes of the property (besides the garbage). So why should it be tied to a property tax? Make a seperate access tax structure.We get clearly that you don't think the property tax structure should be changed. But, this should be tied to the property tax because the rate for the unlogged land was set when the companies were letting the citizens use their land for free. It was tied to property tax then and should be now that it's gone. It doesn't matter that it was an assumption it would stay that way. It didn't. It changed. Because public access was the reasons they get that rate, and there's no longer free public access, take that rate away and replace it with one that more adequately taxes their land that is of little benefit to the citizens of WA.. No separate structure. No new taxes. Just change what they pay. They can make their millions charging hunters to perform a service for them and the state can make millions charging them a fair value for their land. Maybe I could pay a little less with the largest land owners in the state kicking in a more fair tax based on value."Companies were letting the citizens use their land for free" or were the citizens simply using the land for free without the companies consent. Legally the company can not be held responsible for the liberties taken by the citizens without express consent. Crying foul now is akin to pleading ignorance of the law. If someone can produce a legit piece of legislation or WA Code that states the tax rate is linked to unfettered access then this arguement wouldn't matter. The state or local government to my knowledge never connected the dots between tax rates and citizen access. Without that there is no legal basis for changing the tax rate.
Quote from: headshot5 on August 12, 2014, 02:00:20 PMQuoteBack in 71 there were very few gates. It was considered "normal" to take the 4x4 for a drive in the woods. Set up a tent, may do some fishing or hunting on "private" timberland. We have been told that gates are necessary to prevent theft, vandolism & dumping garbage. We were told that gates did not impare our ability to enjoy the land just changed it.We are now told that a permitt is neccesary to pay for the enforcement on the land reducing the Theft, vandalism and dumping.IF good timberland sells for $500-1000 an acre but is only taxed at $130 ish that means the public is supposed to get something out of the deal. When the mistical "value" of my home goes up My taxes do as well.So far, all I have heard is it was assumed public access would be free. Not all assumptions are true. Nothing in the law reflects this access, and I don't think it should, at least not in property taxes. I agree maybe the DOR needs to adjust their calculator. I don't think it should reflect public access though. Public access doesn't make trees grow faster or more straight, or change the physical attributes of the property (besides the garbage). So why should it be tied to a property tax? Make a seperate access tax structure.We get clearly that you don't think the property tax structure should be changed. But, this should be tied to the property tax because the rate for the unlogged land was set when the companies were letting the citizens use their land for free. It was tied to property tax then and should be now that it's gone. It doesn't matter that it was an assumption it would stay that way. It didn't. It changed. Because public access was the reasons they get that rate, and there's no longer free public access, take that rate away and replace it with one that more adequately taxes their land that is of little benefit to the citizens of WA.. No separate structure. No new taxes. Just change what they pay. They can make their millions charging hunters to perform a service for them and the state can make millions charging them a fair value for their land. Maybe I could pay a little less with the largest land owners in the state kicking in a more fair tax based on value.
QuoteBack in 71 there were very few gates. It was considered "normal" to take the 4x4 for a drive in the woods. Set up a tent, may do some fishing or hunting on "private" timberland. We have been told that gates are necessary to prevent theft, vandolism & dumping garbage. We were told that gates did not impare our ability to enjoy the land just changed it.We are now told that a permitt is neccesary to pay for the enforcement on the land reducing the Theft, vandalism and dumping.IF good timberland sells for $500-1000 an acre but is only taxed at $130 ish that means the public is supposed to get something out of the deal. When the mistical "value" of my home goes up My taxes do as well.So far, all I have heard is it was assumed public access would be free. Not all assumptions are true. Nothing in the law reflects this access, and I don't think it should, at least not in property taxes. I agree maybe the DOR needs to adjust their calculator. I don't think it should reflect public access though. Public access doesn't make trees grow faster or more straight, or change the physical attributes of the property (besides the garbage). So why should it be tied to a property tax? Make a seperate access tax structure.
Back in 71 there were very few gates. It was considered "normal" to take the 4x4 for a drive in the woods. Set up a tent, may do some fishing or hunting on "private" timberland. We have been told that gates are necessary to prevent theft, vandolism & dumping garbage. We were told that gates did not impare our ability to enjoy the land just changed it.We are now told that a permitt is neccesary to pay for the enforcement on the land reducing the Theft, vandalism and dumping.IF good timberland sells for $500-1000 an acre but is only taxed at $130 ish that means the public is supposed to get something out of the deal. When the mistical "value" of my home goes up My taxes do as well.
Agreed and agreed. I don't know who Eyeman is.
There was a time when there were no gates. Then some gates but most were open. Then a lot of gates and most were closed. Then almost all closed. It has been a progression and it took a long time to get here. Now we are looking at fee access and I am on the side that thinks it will be determined that it complies with any public access agreements that were in place. It's still privately owned property and a privilege to access, not a right. For a site with what seemed to be a majority of members favoring less legislation, litigation, and regulation the hypocrisy shown on this particular issue amuses me.