deleted

[Practical Approach]

BS-If you are going to accuse someone or a tribe, lets hear who the tribes are and who your source is.  I hate second hand information without supporting evidence posted on these threads.

I did say if you want more info you can PM me. I agree there is plenty of second hand information out there. That second hand info would include the locals seeing truckloads of deer coming out in the dead of winter. You don't have to believe any of that either. You can just believe that the deer have just all but disappeared off prime deer land that they haven't even gotten wolves to yet (its in their plans) for no reason at all.

But you already threw the steak out for the wolves to fight over in my opinion.  I see data is collected on harvest by tribal hunters and state hunters.  Nothing reflects the permit numbers you mention.  I think predators (cougars) play a larger role than what most people think.  Especially when on average an adult cat is making a kill about every 7 days. 

[Practical Approach]

I have to agree with bobcat. We would have some of the best hunting in the state if truckloads werent being hauled out daily

Where are the truckloads pics? 

[Practical Approach]

Sure, it's specific areas. Look at the Yakima area: worst deer populations in the state. The WDFW blames hair loss caused by lice. But to me it's obvious- Those deer get killed year around by a tribe that has no closed season and no limits. The same thing could be happening in the area described by the original post in this thread.

No it couldn't.  Tribes up north have seasons and limits. 

[baker5150]

I have to agree with bobcat. We would have some of the best hunting in the state if truckloads werent being hauled out daily

Where are the truckloads pics?

I would like to see those myself. 

Do you have the harvest report for the entire state, that includes the Native % for both Deer and Elk? I'd be interested to see what the % is for the Yakima area that Bobcat is talking about.

Also whats the margin for error on that report,  or how many hunters do they assume or believe didn't report?

[vandeman17]

BS-If you are going to accuse someone or a tribe, lets hear who the tribes are and who your source is.  I hate second hand information without supporting evidence posted on these threads.

I did say if you want more info you can PM me. I agree there is plenty of second hand information out there. That second hand info would include the locals seeing truckloads of deer coming out in the dead of winter. You don't have to believe any of that either. You can just believe that the deer have just all but disappeared off prime deer land that they haven't even gotten wolves to yet (its in their plans) for no reason at all.

But you already threw the steak out for the wolves to fight over in my opinion.  I see data is collected on harvest by tribal hunters and state hunters.  Nothing reflects the permit numbers you mention.  I think predators (cougars) play a larger role than what most people think.  Especially when on average an adult cat is making a kill about every 7 days.

I agree it a cumulative problem of too many predators with the likes of cats, bears, wolves and people. The thing with native harvest is that a single person can go in to an area in a weekend and kill a truck bed full of deer or multiple elk, all of which I have seen first hand. My theory, and it is my theory alone, is that if you could actually get accurate numbers that native harvest would be about equal to that of all other predators combined. Non-native hunters also take a large percentage of the animals taken out of an area but at least there is a count of how many are taken, or at least an attempt at it for the sake of conservation. 

[Practical Approach]

I have to agree with bobcat. We would have some of the best hunting in the state if truckloads werent being hauled out daily

Where are the truckloads pics?

I would like to see those myself. 

Do you have the harvest report for the entire state, that includes the Native % for both Deer and Elk? I'd be interested to see what the % is for the Yakima area that Bobcat is talking about.

Also whats the margin for error on that report,  or how many hunters do they assume or believe didn't report?

No, just the report for the west side tribes on the NWIFC.org website.  I am not sure about the error margin, but I have read from WDFW that the state has about a 60-70% reporting rate on any given year for their annual report. 

[snowpack]

I have to agree with bobcat. We would have some of the best hunting in the state if truckloads werent being hauled out daily

Where are the truckloads pics?

I would like to see those myself. 

Do you have the harvest report for the entire state, that includes the Native % for both Deer and Elk? I'd be interested to see what the % is for the Yakima area that Bobcat is talking about.

Also whats the margin for error on that report,  or how many hunters do they assume or believe didn't report?

The hunting prospect prepared by WDFW has Indian harvest graphed with state harvest for many of the GMUs.  The ones I've seen haven't looked very disproportionate.  But those numbers only reflect what was reported. 

[Practical Approach]

Sure, it's specific areas. Look at the Yakima area: worst deer populations in the state. The WDFW blames hair loss caused by lice. But to me it's obvious- Those deer get killed year around by a tribe that has no closed season and no limits. The same thing could be happening in the area described by the original post in this thread.

Nail on head Bobcat. In fact every area in this state is a specific area by itself! And that is how we are losing everything. Pretty easy for somebody from SW, NE, SE Wa to look at my post and say that sucks for them and even mean it. Until there specific area is hit it has no real affect on them. Our area was great for as long as my granddad, my dad, and most of my life can remember. Didn't take to long to ruin it as soon as a group that can basically do what they want focused on it.

And this area has a lot of country. Lots of high meadows a person could walk into for the day. Some a bit further making a good backpack trip into or horse camp. But 75% of those animals end up in a very concentrated area in the winter. Funny after a few hard hit years of my "second hand information without supporting evidence" the only places there are much for deer to be found in the summer range are the places they migrate into Canada.

What do you think has changed in your area?  Tribal hunting has only become more restrictive through court cases over the years.  In your dad and granddads times, tribes were hunting with the same weapons just with fewer regulations?

[baker5150]

I have to agree with bobcat. We would have some of the best hunting in the state if truckloads werent being hauled out daily

Where are the truckloads pics?

I would like to see those myself. 

Do you have the harvest report for the entire state, that includes the Native % for both Deer and Elk? I'd be interested to see what the % is for the Yakima area that Bobcat is talking about.

Also whats the margin for error on that report,  or how many hunters do they assume or believe didn't report?

No, just the report for the west side tribes on the NWIFC.org website.  I am not sure about the error margin, but I have read from WDFW that the state has about a 60-70% reporting rate on any given year for their annual report.

I found it, and it has all the elk and deer numbers for the entire state.  I can't figure out how to screen shot it like you did.  But it shows the native % for the Yakima area at 2%   Only 1 Elk taken by a native in 2013.   

Page 13 of the revised report

Seems a little hard for me to believe only 1 Elk was taken by a tribal member from that area. 

http://nwifc.org/publications/big-game-harvest-reports/

[bowhunterwa87]

I have to agree with bobcat. We would have some of the best hunting in the state if truckloads werent being hauled out daily

Where are the truckloads pics?

Why would i take pics?? To support my "theory" on an online forum lol?! You must be a native or someody living under a rock. Take a drive through white swan and admire the mountains of deer and elk heads thrown up on the roofs rotting lol.
Every local around here knows how it is.  I feel a defensive rebuttal coming on 

[Gringo31]

Here we go again....


Newsflash! 

1.  Russians, Indians, Hispanics and Whites are killing our game illegally. 

2.  Many folks who care about these natural resources are outraged. 

3.  Fines are too small and "some" regulations aren't exactly enforced in some areas.

4.  Predators are a MAJOR issue....both with 2 feet and 4 feet.

5.  Some of the data out there may be a bit incomplete or inaccurate due to poor compliance.

And?

[Practical Approach]

BS-If you are going to accuse someone or a tribe, lets hear who the tribes are and who your source is.  I hate second hand information without supporting evidence posted on these threads.

I did say if you want more info you can PM me. I agree there is plenty of second hand information out there. That second hand info would include the locals seeing truckloads of deer coming out in the dead of winter. You don't have to believe any of that either. You can just believe that the deer have just all but disappeared off prime deer land that they haven't even gotten wolves to yet (its in their plans) for no reason at all.

But you already threw the steak out for the wolves to fight over in my opinion.  I see data is collected on harvest by tribal hunters and state hunters.  Nothing reflects the permit numbers you mention.  I think predators (cougars) play a larger role than what most people think.  Especially when on average an adult cat is making a kill about every 7 days.

Show me last seasons tribal harvest? The state now doesn't report actual tribal harvest for several years after the fact. And that is assuming they got honest numbers to begin with.

I posted last seasons tribal harvest earlier in the thread.  The state reports last seasons harvest the following year.  Same as the tribes.

[Practical Approach]

I have to agree with bobcat. We would have some of the best hunting in the state if truckloads werent being hauled out daily

Where are the truckloads pics?

I would like to see those myself. 

Do you have the harvest report for the entire state, that includes the Native % for both Deer and Elk? I'd be interested to see what the % is for the Yakima area that Bobcat is talking about.

Also whats the margin for error on that report,  or how many hunters do they assume or believe didn't report?

No, just the report for the west side tribes on the NWIFC.org website.  I am not sure about the error margin, but I have read from WDFW that the state has about a 60-70% reporting rate on any given year for their annual report.

I found it, and it has all the elk and deer numbers for the entire state.  I can't figure out how to screen shot it like you did.  But it shows the native % for the Yakima area at 2%   Only 1 Elk taken by a native in 2013.   

Page 13 of the revised report

Seems a little hard for me to believe only 1 Elk was taken by a tribal member from that area. 

http://nwifc.org/publications/big-game-harvest-reports/

On the first page of the report it tells you which tribes it reports for.  Yakima is not included.

[Practical Approach]

I have to agree with bobcat. We would have some of the best hunting in the state if truckloads werent being hauled out daily

Where are the truckloads pics?

Well for one reason many of us don't know you.  Most of us don't live where you live or see what you have described.  We live in a society where people want to see evidence before believing everything they hear.  At least I do.
Why would i take pics?? To support my "theory" on an online forum lol?! You must be a native or someody living under a rock. Take a drive through white swan and admire the mountains of deer and elk heads thrown up on the roofs rotting lol.
Every local around here knows how it is.  I feel a defensive rebuttal coming on 

[ctwiggs1]

Maybe I'm missing something but your argument seems completely irrelevant to me.  You're giving west side info when the argument seems to be based around the Yakima area.  Looking at your referenced website, it shows 0 deer taken by tribes last year in the Yakima area.  IMHO that kind of makes your source look... well... Like a bad source I guess.

edit:  It looks like you posted while I was typing.  I see now that the Yakima tribe doesn't report.... Which basically again means your source isn't really valid and argument about the Yakima tribe.

http://nwifc.org/w/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2014/08/2013-2014-big-game-harvest-report.pdf

Thanks

Curtis