Live Chukar or Quail for training

[netcoyote]

How far along are you? Past the feral kill pigeon stage? Pigeons work well and are easier to locate/keep easier.Just a suggestion

He's turning 1 year old on Superbowl Sunday, he's been shot over on planted birds from both a kick cage and head tucked under wing. I've hunted him over wild quail and Chukar since late October but only shot on points. He started to be more steady towards the end of the season but still takes out birds if he gets out too far and starts hunting for himself (he's a big runner).

I used pigeons to train my setter. Never could break him of ranging too far out and hunting for himself. I think that's just what you get with setters. May be possible to train it out of him but it would be a lot of work. If you can keep their attention you have better luck but it's a constant effort.

[wildweeds]

My setters were all broke with pigeons,I got a chuckle one day when I showed one off to a guy who claimed that while the dog work was very nice,that particular dog could NEVER win a field trial.The chuckle came from knowing that the dog was the #1 Horseback Field Trial setter for that year in AKC and the #5 Shooting dog in the CKC.Horseshoes mean GO and Bootsoles mean "Birds in here close".That particular dogs kids are the same,hunt real nice in the 75-200 yard range.I had a female that was always finding birds at the outer limits of what I consider boot hunting 3-4 hundred,she was as honest as the day is long,full choke nose and once pointed wouldn't move an inch,I killed alot of birds with that dog that would have been walked right past,As long as they stay forward and between 10:30 and 2:30 I'm okay with it so long as they are honest.Dogs that get antsy and jump the gun,knock and chase while your still a hundred or more out are annoying.

How far along are you? Past the feral kill pigeon stage? Pigeons work well and are easier to locate/keep easier.Just a suggestion

He's turning 1 year old on Superbowl Sunday, he's been shot over on planted birds from both a kick cage and head tucked under wing. I've hunted him over wild quail and Chukar since late October but only shot on points. He started to be more steady towards the end of the season but still takes out birds if he gets out too far and starts hunting for himself (he's a big runner).

I used pigeons to train my setter. Never could break him of ranging too far out and hunting for himself. I think that's just what you get with setters. May be possible to train it out of him but it would be a lot of work. If you can keep their attention you have better luck but it's a constant effort.

[Don Fischer]

It doesn't sound to me like the op is ready for game birds yet. Completely finish your dog on pigeon's then switch over to game bird for q bit and go to wild birds. Catch your own pigeon's. I caught my own about thirty years and one I learned no to shoot my breeder's, I've never had to buy or catch them again. few years back I sold them really inexpensively, couple buck's each. I don't do that anymore. Today feral's are $5 each and Homer's $10 each. It finally occurred to me that I could shoot my own bird's as well as the next guy. I have given away birds to some friend's starting their own loft's and they have plenty now. Lot of guy's I know train only with chukars, $9 bucks a bird and they are pretty much one time use bird's. Tell them $5 for a feral pigeon and they can't stand the though of having to pay so much for a pigeon. Well don't shoot them all up, let them breed. Take and get them returning and they are the use over as much as you want training bird unless you just have to shoot them all.

[scottr]

It doesn't sound to me like the op is ready for game birds yet. Completely finish your dog on pigeon's then switch over to game bird for q bit and go to wild birds. Catch your own pigeon's. I caught my own about thirty years and one I learned no to shoot my breeder's, I've never had to buy or catch them again. few years back I sold them really inexpensively, couple buck's each. I don't do that anymore. Today feral's are $5 each and Homer's $10 each. It finally occurred to me that I could shoot my own bird's as well as the next guy. I have given away birds to some friend's starting their own loft's and they have plenty now. Lot of guy's I know train only with chukars, $9 bucks a bird and they are pretty much one time use bird's. Tell them $5 for a feral pigeon and they can't stand the though of having to pay so much for a pigeon. Well don't shoot them all up, let them breed. Take and get them returning and they are the use over as much as you want training bird unless you just have to shoot them all.

OP here. I will continue to use pigeons but while I can shoot planted game birds until the end of March on the land I have access to I thought I'd take advantage. After that I'll go back to homers at another location I use.

Wonder something, are you saying you don't train/hunt your dog on any wild birds until they are completely finished? Are they steady to wing & flush  or wing and shot? How long doe sit take you to finish a dog?

[wildweeds]

Takes 68 actual days days of training to finish a dog give or take some days,natural students with great inherited instinct can be finished wing and shot in 20 days,dummies can get it in 50 the rest is polish,shine and repeatability.Sending mixed signals of what is right and wrong is the biggest mistake made.I used to be guilty of it,with the 5 gallon bucket of quail and 60 minutes of time.Dogs never learned anything but bad,it's really a one bird show,they do it right and get the bird shot for them or they are done and you go home.Putting down multiple birds and hoping they do it right by at least the 3rd bird just teaches that it's okay to muff up  the first 1,2,3,4  and work good on the 5th MAYBE.Pigeons have good scent,fly high,don't crash land and promote breaking,would rather fly than run,are easier to find and keep.Once the dog has a good understanding of what is expected and stands stylishly through the kill of a pigeon consistantly it's time to transition to the game birds.The dog tells you when it's ready,when you can smoke a pigeon and the dog remains perfectly still except for a perking of the ears and facial expression,and allows for another bird to be flushed and killed,it's time to move to game birds,which will bring a small regression that needs to be worked through,the dog will know what's expected and catch on quickly.

[AspenBud]

Takes 68 actual days days of training to finish a dog give or take some days

I'd be careful of putting a number on that. Dogs are not born equal. (I know you know this weeds, but for the beginner...)

[Jonathan_S]

It actually only takes 63 days to finish a dog...get it?  Puppies 

[wildweeds]

I know they aren't equal I've had them broke as early as 7 days of training to well past the 68 days(That dog was just dumber than rocks).Consult any pro pointing dog trainer and they all have a 3 month program,it's three months provided enough groundwork has been laid down before the onset of training.The groundwork is the dog does point,holds fairly well,and hunts sufficiently to find birds,It's pretty simple really.Hunting dogs that will satisfy 90% of the population can be trained to hold until you flush and the gun goes off,breaking to chase on the shot in somewhere near the two month mark,those dogs will always wear a ecollar and the owner don't care to much if the style is Remington Calender quality.I still am going to stick with my original number that a middle of the road,average dog can be broke to wing and shot in the 68 day time frame(I subtracted the weekends from 3 months).Lunchtime now but will post a video link of a dog with 24 days of training on it later.

Takes 68 actual days days of training to finish a dog give or take some days

I'd be careful of putting a number on that. Dogs are not born equal. (I know you know this weeds, but for the beginner...)

[AspenBud]

I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm saying it can be dangerous to put such expectations out there as most people aren't a pro trainer with the time and resources to make that happen. It's better to have people taking their time than have them think they should see the same results in a box of time. They also need to consider the line and breed they have. I've seen Pointers pointing at 15 weeks and I've heard of Ryman Setters not doing so for at least a year. One guy will have better results in that first year than the other. Lots of variables.

I know they aren't equal I've had them broke as early as 7 days of training to well past the 68 days(That dog was just dumber than rocks).Consult any pro pointing dog trainer and they all have a 3 month program,it's three months provided enough groundwork has been laid down before the onset of training.The groundwork is the dog does point,holds fairly well,and hunts sufficiently to find birds,It's pretty simple really.Hunting dogs that will satisfy 90% of the population can be trained to hold until you flush and the gun goes off,breaking to chase on the shot in somewhere near the two month mark,those dogs will always wear a ecollar and the owner don't care to much if the style is Remington Calender quality.I still am going to stick with my original number that a middle of the road,average dog can be broke to wing and shot in the 68 day time frame(I subtracted the weekends from 3 months).Lunchtime now but will post a video link of a dog with 24 days of training on it later.

Takes 68 actual days days of training to finish a dog give or take some days

I'd be careful of putting a number on that. Dogs are not born equal. (I know you know this weeds, but for the beginner...)

[wildweeds]

One of mine who is a nice dog and took to it fairly well but slower than the rest of the class,at the 2 month  mark at 18 months old.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU3AhxZO5u0

Well bred shorthair owned by a local seattle resident who field trials.30 days training minus weekends = 22 repetitions of the drill
.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMgpVaCKWEc

[AspenBud]

It doesn't sound to me like the op is ready for game birds yet. Completely finish your dog on pigeon's then switch over to game bird for q bit and go to wild birds. Catch your own pigeon's. I caught my own about thirty years and one I learned no to shoot my breeder's, I've never had to buy or catch them again. few years back I sold them really inexpensively, couple buck's each. I don't do that anymore. Today feral's are $5 each and Homer's $10 each. It finally occurred to me that I could shoot my own bird's as well as the next guy. I have given away birds to some friend's starting their own loft's and they have plenty now. Lot of guy's I know train only with chukars, $9 bucks a bird and they are pretty much one time use bird's. Tell them $5 for a feral pigeon and they can't stand the though of having to pay so much for a pigeon. Well don't shoot them all up, let them breed. Take and get them returning and they are the use over as much as you want training bird unless you just have to shoot them all.

OP here. I will continue to use pigeons but while I can shoot planted game birds until the end of March on the land I have access to I thought I'd take advantage. After that I'll go back to homers at another location I use.

Wonder something, are you saying you don't train/hunt your dog on any wild birds until they are completely finished? Are they steady to wing & flush  or wing and shot? How long doe sit take you to finish a dog?

It's a slow day at work here...

One of the big mistakes you can make is over doing it on pen raised birds at hunting preserves. You can accomplish a lot with them but in less controlled situations they can lead to a dog creeping or crowding in on birds. That point one foot away from a planted bird might look great but it's not practical or something to be encouraged. Thinking ruffed grouse trials...people who train dogs for that will give a dog a good grounding with pen raised birds in highly controlled situations before going to the woods with the dog for training on wild birds. There is a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it and people who train for that (and probably any other wild bird format) are able to create controlled situations that resemble a lot of wild bird scenarios.

This dog was started on pigeons...

Here he is at 15 weeks...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOHcppL7SzM

This is what he grew into (age 6 so far) after plenty of pigeons, quail, ruffed grouse, woodcock, and so on and a lot of careful training by a pretty good Cover Dog trainer/trialer. He has a nice trophy wall and gets hunted a lot on wild birds. Very nice dog.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c9alty0-sY

I really want a pup out of this one.

[xsf1]

I might have some chukar available in mid april. Located in toledo WA and price is $13 each with a discount if you buy 200 or more. I can also sell pheasant hens at $15 ea.
Check me out facebook.com/bradleysbirds

[Maverick]

We have rooster pheasants for sale in Burbank wa. $14 each.