3-9 scope- max yardage

[sirmissalot]

I remember a while back some of you knowledgeable guys were talking about shooting lower powered rifle scopes (I think highcountry was one of them) and I remember you talking about shooting pretty decent distances. I'm in the middle of building a super ultralight rifle and came across a leupold ultralight series which only comes in up to 3-9 power. My question is, could you effectively use that power scope on deer sized animals up to 500 yards? Obviously its not going to be a longrange shooter, and normally I'd never sacrifice good glass for weight, but the savings in this case is significant and I'd like some input from those who know.

[BULLBLASTER]

9 power shouod be plenty to accurately shoot to 500 in a hunting situation. Does that scope have turrets meant to be adjusted each shot? I am assuming you will want to dial the yardage?

[h20hunter]

My AR is currently equipped with a 3x9x50 Pentax. Its what I had laying around. I've shot it out to 500 from the bench and prone and even with my crappy skills was able to keep rounds on a paper plate most of the time.

So, to answer your question, I'd say yes if you can do your part on the trigger.

[DRobnsn]

I've shot out to 900 with a leupold 3-9x50 on my lr308, did it work yes, but it was not optimal by any means. I was very comfortable with it at 500 and under though. If we're just talking 500 id say its doable. I think it allot depends on your eye and comfort zone. My brother in law loves higher power for all shooting distances whether hunting or target shooting. I prefer the higher power as well but if I were in your situation I could give it up for the weight/size savings, my brother and law couldn't stand it though.

At 500 I'd say its still to each his own kind of thing, but beyond that it gets much more effective to bump the power up. 

[Mike450r]

Yes,  it should be just fine accuracy wise but I would recommend more magnification in the form of a spotting scope especially if that 500 yards is on the westside.  A blacktail will have to have a hell of a rack for me to know he is shooter through a scope on x9.  500 yards is pretty far and depending on the terrain even a decent blacktail rack is hard to make out even if cranked u to 9 in my experience.

[sirmissalot]

I will almost always have my spotter with me when packing this gun. I'm building it more for S&G's than anything but if I do pack in with it, it will be on the extra long pack in trips where I'm really wanting to save ounces.

I do plan on sticking a turret on it yes.

Most my other scopes are higher power, I do have a 3-9 on my  AR but never look at deer with it especially at 500 yards so sitting here dreaming its hard to say if 9x will be enough to kill a deer or most likely a bear. This is all I really needed was some confirmation... thanks a bunch for your input!

[Alchase]

You can simulate the distance, for example use a MR-31 target at 100 yards, simulates a target at 600 yards.
http://bisonballistics.com/downloads/nra-mr-31-target-600-yard-reduced-for-100-yards

Know your bullets Ballistic Coeficient.

Example: 300 win mag, 180 150 gr, XP3, sighted 2 inches high at 100 yards, no wind, average 60 deg temp, would be "roughly" 36.7 inches low at 500 yards.

Add 3 mph cross wind and it can push your bullet almost 5 inches to the side.

Honestly if you have access to a 500 yd range, learn and build your DOPE.

[Alchase]

9 power shouod be plenty to accurately shoot to 500 in a hunting situation. Does that scope have turrets meant to be adjusted each shot? I am assuming you will want to dial the yardage?

For 500 yards or less a Ballistic reticle would be a cheap way to help stay on target.

If you do not have access to a 500 yard range, mule deer average of 36 inches tall at the shoulders, with approximate 6 inch diameter kill zone or target.
That 6 inch kill zone would be roughly 1.2 inches at 100 yards.
10 inch kill zone would be roughly 2 inches at 100 yards.
So put a few 1-2 inch circles at 100 yards and shoot, LOL

[magnumb]

Add a wind meter, know your altitude and temperature for that given moment and then do your job......sure, it is then considerably more easily accomplished.

Just temperature changes alone affect bullet flight at approx 2fps for every one degree of temperature change, ie, sighted in at 100 yds. in 70 degree weather with a MV of 2,700 fps. makes that MV approx. 2,630 fps @ 35 degrees.  100 yds. vs 500 yds. with such a temperature fluctuation is notable in regards to bullet flight/drop/trajectory.

Add wind and altitude fluctuations, one's inherent ability (or lack thereof) to shoot 500 yards comfortably, effectively and most importantly.....consistently, things get a bit more dicey.  Your goal quite naturally becomes more challenging when such factors are taken into consideration, but can be and often is easily attained quite successfully by many.

I'm likely much older than yourself and because of all that goes along with that, I have dedicated rifles/calibers for each varmint and big game animal that I hunt.  No matter my ballistic familiarity with each rifle/cartridge, I still have a drop chart and windage chart (10 mph) to 800 yards in 50 yard increments, securely and strategically placed on each and every rifle stock to assist me in placing my shots as cleanly, quickly and responsibly as possible.  Due to each rifle being dedicated to each species of animal that I pursue, the drop chart already includes both the average temperature for that specific area during that specific time of the year and also for the average altitude that I hunt in that specific area (+/- 200 ft. elevation differences).  To help make this approach as successful as possible, all of my small and big game rifles (less my varmint AR's) are of the same exact brand/model, wear the same rings/bases/butt pad/slings and scopes (4.5 x 14 x 44m - Zeiss) which enables me to shoulder each rifle and acquire the same eye relief/reticle system and scope adjustment knobs (adjustable objective/magnification). 

My son's hunting rifles are also of the same exact brand/model/scope/etc., and outside of his scopes established eye relief, are exact duplicates of my own hunting rifles.  For he and I, this approach has been invaluable, to say the least, and has always given the both of us the results that we now have come to expect.

Your inquiries and obvious dedication to achieving this goal will, no doubt, make this a positive endevor for you and I wish you the very best, in that regard.......    

[sirmissalot]

Add a wind meter, know your altitude and temperature for that given moment and then do your job......sure, it is then considerably more easily accomplished.

Just temperature changes alone affect bullet flight at approx 2fps for every one degree of temperature change, ie, sighted in at 100 yds. in 70 degree weather with a MV of 2,700 fps. makes that MV approx. 2,630 fps @ 35 degrees.  100 yds. vs 500 yds. with such a temperature fluctuation is notable in regards to bullet flight/drop/trajectory.

Add wind and altitude fluctuations, one's inherent ability (or lack thereof) to shoot 500 yards comfortably, effectively and most importantly.....consistently, things get a bit more dicey.  Your goal quite naturally becomes more challenging when such factors are taken into consideration, but can be and often is easily attained quite successfully by many.

I'm likely much older than yourself and because of all that goes along with that, I have dedicated rifles/calibers for each varmint and big game animal that I hunt.  No matter my ballistic familiarity with each rifle/cartridge, I still have a drop chart and windage chart (10 mph) to 800 yards in 50 yard increments, securely and strategically placed on each and every rifle stock to assist me in placing my shots as cleanly, quickly and responsibly as possible.  Due to each rifle being dedicated to each species of animal that I pursue, the drop chart already includes both the average temperature for that specific area during that specific time of the year and also for the average altitude that I hunt in that specific area (+/- 200 ft. elevation differences).  To help make this approach as successful as possible, all of my small and big game rifles (less my varmint AR's) are of the same exact brand/model, wear the same rings/bases/butt pad/slings and scopes (4.5 x 14 x 44m - Zeiss) which enables me to shoulder each rifle and acquire the same eye relief/reticle system and scope adjustment knobs (adjustable objective/magnification). 

My son's hunting rifles are also of the same exact brand/model/scope/etc., and outside of his scopes established eye relief, are exact duplicates of my own hunting rifles.  For he and I, this approach has been invaluable, to say the least, and has always given the both of us the results that we now have come to expect.

Your inquiries and obvious dedication to achieving this goal will, no doubt, make this a positive endevor for you and I wish you the very best, in that regard.......

So you think 9X is enough or... 

[magnumb]

Too many variables to know....for me anyway.  You and your eyes, the scopes you're considering and your wallet can either greatly reduce those variables or perhaps eliminate them.

If you take four different 3 x 9 scopes with similar sized bells outside of your favorite optics shop and adjust each one to be the most clear for you at 9x, one and maybe 2 will stand out above the others as to what you consider 'clear' and desirable.  It isn't unusual to find that the higher priced glass will impress you much more, not always, but much more often than not.  The next guy performing the same test.....who knows, but I'd lay odds that he'd also pick the higher-end glass as being clearer.  Good glass/optics are not cheap, plain and simple.

As for you needing more than a 9x on the top end for what you have decided that you need......no, not necessarily, but I have chosen to do so.  It is simple math to figure out that 9x magnification won't give you the same 'picture' at 500 yds. as would a 14x scope.  Again......quality of glass and the process of manufacturing all of these intricate scope parts makes for all the difference in good, reliable optics.  But given the same brand/manufacturer and then comparing their 3 x 9 x 44mm to their, say, 4.5 x 14 x 44mm at 275 yds. (+/-) or less while both are set to 9x......you won't see a discernable bit of difference.  Around that 275 yd. range, the 4.5 x 14 x 44mm clearly takes over.... for two reasons.  You obviously have more magnification to call upon if necessary and you also almost always have an adjustable objective (AO) on the higher magnification scope to deal with the dreaded parallax that is all too real.  If you're not familiar with this term and/or it's negative effects, parallax is simply the apparent movement of objects within the field of view in relation to the reticle.  The AO can be easily adjusted to almost entirely eliminate parallax.  Spend some time reading about parallax in riflescopes....I would further comment on it's effects on 'clarity', but I'm guessing that I'm in enough trouble already for spending this much time in answering your inquiry when a lady friend has now passed by me in the 'puter room several times while wearing 'that' look....... .

I would not purchase a scope, with the intentions of consistently attempting to take any animal at 350 yards+, that was less than 12x and didn't have an AO.  There are some scopes out there that I consider good to higher-end, but they do not offer an AO.  They are the experts obviously, but for the life of me, I don't get it.  Yep, they're just slightly heavier and costly, but you get what you pay for.  If clarity and the ability to make out the finer details (rack, limbs, pass through potential on other animals or fellow hunters), the choice should then become much easier.

I can hear the 'fixed' or low variable, non-AO scope advocates revving up their keyboards as I type......... .  I also expect that the majority of any negative comments or observations will mention "who wants to mess around with that stupid AO knob when I need to get that shot off as quickly as possible".  I get it......blacktail bucks don't often give you that last, over-the-shoulder look.......if ever.  Here's the deal........how many 300+ yard shots do you actually take?  How many times did you see an animal at 300 yds+ that knew you were there or didn't take at least a short amount of time to try to identify you?  At 500+ yards.....how many animals knew you even existed?  From my experience and many others, you have tons of time to adjust your AO and then tons more to prepare yourself for the shot.  All potential shots under 300 yds., no need to deal with the AO anyway.  It is simply there for those times when you need it and not an issue whatsover when you don't.     

Soooooo..........if the 500 yd. goal of responsibly and consistently making each shot is indeed your goal, a 12x minimum top-end magnification scope would be suggested, but a 14x might be even more prudent.......both with AO's.  You can always dial the 3 x 9 and 4.5 x 14 down to say, 5x each, but you can't dial but one of them to 14x when you find that you need it.  I guess that one might then argue, "why not go to a top-end 16x, 18x or even a 24x if 'bigger is better'".  Those scopes offering these much higher magnifications become just too unweildly for a true hunting rifle.....IMHO.  For the person that 'road hunts', varmint hunts off a bench, primarily punches paper or doesn't trek far from his/her rig to hunt.......the super high magnified scopes aren't nearly as burdensome as they would be topping a hunting rifle that is carried often and far afield.  More of a common sense, judgement call.

As far as objective lense size/diameter........no lower than 40mm or higher than 50mm.  Our eyes have limitations, light gathering ability is one of them.  Over 50mm objective lenses are heavier, bulkier and from 50mm on up, they offer little, if any, advantage in regards to light gathering.  IMHO.....the 44mm objective lense on all of my scopes is the perfect size/diameter for me and my purposes.  Lots of choices, but for me, the 44mm makes the most sense.

I offer these comments/suggestions with the hope and intent that they might help you to make a decision that you're comfortable with and will serve you well in the coming hunting seasons.  It is really true...if you can't see them (and then make them out clearly), you can't shoot them.

Good luck.......