Every wonder why the big elk are gone by the time you finally draw a tag?

[Tbar]

Hunterrcc there is no validation to your claims other than someone (it's assumption that they are even tribal at this point) killed a big bull.  All the big bulls aren't gone.  I am confident there will still be a few when I draw, which probably will not be any time soon.

[hunterrcc]

Funny that the only whinning I read about, is about big bulls that the tribes kill. I don't read about the wolves, big deer, maybe a goat or a big horn they kill. Why is that ?

Get out of the truck and get in the woods and you will kill a big bull. The picture of the bull that started the whine session isn't a big bull. I would be shocked if it scored over 300. Look at the tine length and spread. I would pass with a quality tag.
I harvested a 340 class bull with a quality tag, on October 1st where the Muckleshoots and Yakima's hunt. Saw several other 300 class bulls within 10 mile radius in the woods..
So put up some facts before blaming everything on Natives. 

Fact number 1: bull is over 100"s bigger then you say it is. 404"
2: if I could draw a tag I would shoot a big bull!
3:I would not pass with 30points on a quality tag or a governs tag!
4:I do get out of the truck and that's why I get Bulls! Some pretty nice ones when we can draw a tag. 
5: if this bull is 300" and you saw several Bulls like this in a 10 mile radius I guess there are 400" bulls everywhere folks!  I am wrong natives carry on and  keep on killing all the elk there are plenty of them! 

Looking at the spread is not really that great of an angle to see so not sure how you're judging that but maybe that accounts for your lack of inches!  Not sure where you miss counted but man really not 300" is beyond laughable!  Good night!

[Tbar]

Hunterrcc you still are not answering a few questions that pertain directly to your claims.  What are the bull to cow ratios? Cow to calf ratios?  Preseason? Postseason?  Spring?  Is the herd at objective numbers?  Above/below?  What are the trends?

[Tbar]

I'm assuming that this is a Colockum  bull. 

[hunterrcc]

Hunterrcc you still are not answering a few questions that pertain directly to your claims.  What are the bull to cow ratios? Cow to calf ratios?  Preseason? Postseason?  Spring?  Is the herd at objective numbers?  Above/below?  What are the trends?

So you think that because someone does estimated count of elk from a plane in the middle of the day that it is accurate and reliable?  No it's a guess at best.  I don't have the magic numbers for you but what I do have is another Indain shooting a big bull that we will not be able to ever draw tag for due to lack of tags because they say the numbers are down on Bulls.  Yes the Indian shot it.  As for area it doesn't matter I know where it was killed and that's good enough for me! The rest can guess as far as I am concerned!

[Time Immemorial]

This is my solution to the problem, if your a Native American then you get to hunt your native land with only your bow or Speer that you made with natural resources. And you can go fishing all year round and keep all the fish you want but you get a dip net and a conoe. I'm a 1/4 Indian and can register but I don't cause these native Americans are destroying so much of our habitat. They are no better than wolves!!!

Lol

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Dude this area is not a general season any elk it's a true spike only unless youre lucky a f*** and draw one of its very very very few tags. 

Actually you can see many 300" bulls from the road if you know where to look and especially say your in the hills come dec/jan!  Not to say non tribal are perfect they are not but the number of Indians shooting animals does way more damage to the bull elk numbers for this unit then any other group hands down.  Our state turns a blind eye to it. 

Again, they were there for the guys who were lucky a f***s who got drawn. Instead of complaining about the tribal hunters who are taking out the big bulls because they can, complain to the state who makes you hunt true spike, so a couple lucky a f***s and tribal hunters can hunt all the big bulls if that is what you are interested in. What's the point in protecting the big bulls if they are going to get taken out anyway? The State might as well have a 5 pt bull hunt for everybody. Then the native hunters will have to take spikes and cows and small branched bulls I guess.

But your anger is misplaced. Instead of the tribal hunters, you should be upset with the state and their management scheme.

[Tbar]

Hunterrcc you still are not answering a few questions that pertain directly to your claims.  What are the bull to cow ratios? Cow to calf ratios?  Preseason? Postseason?  Spring?  Is the herd at objective numbers?  Above/below?  What are the trends?

So you think that because someone does estimated count of elk from a plane in the middle of the day that it is accurate and reliable?  No it's a guess at best.  I don't have the magic numbers for you but what I do have is another Indain shooting a big bull that we will not be able to ever draw tag for due to lack of tags because they say the numbers are down on Bulls.  Yes the Indian shot it.  As for area it doesn't matter I know where it was killed and that's good enough for me! The rest can guess as far as I am concerned!

It's an educated guess using the best available science.  I also think it's far more accurate in the Colockum and Yakima herds than say, anywhere in western washington.

[hunterrcc]

my bros...oh yes, I forgot, we all know each other and all are best of buddies.  Sorry but I'm not a poacher and sorry to disappoint you but I actually do step out of my truck. since you know so much o of the bull  why not share some info?

If something was illegal in the killing of this bull why noThoughiIdoubt e the info instead of beating around the bush side stepping the request?  Hey hunterrcc, did you andyour buddy from thorp have fun shooting over 30 deer and leaving them to waste? Or how about your bros that poached the 2 bulls down in the blues?  Though I doubt you actually know them I'm just making making assumptions like you.

Actually that poacher that shot the deer is getting in trouble just like the other guys in the blues not enough if you ask me but no one does anymore. They are not my kind and I am not ok with the killing the animals unlike you defending the Indians killing big Bulls year after year no limits or oversite Involved ever!  I guess it would make sense you would be offend when I lump you into that Indian group because you too like to shoot Bulls like this!     Like blman stated they get in trouble and can be prosecuted unlike natives!

[hunterrcc]

Hunterrcc you still are not answering a few questions that pertain directly to your claims.  What are the bull to cow ratios? Cow to calf ratios?  Preseason? Postseason?  Spring?  Is the herd at objective numbers?  Above/below?  What are the trends?

So you think that because someone does estimated count of elk from a plane in the middle of the day that it is accurate and reliable?  No it's a guess at best.  I don't have the magic numbers for you but what I do have is another Indain shooting a big bull that we will not be able to ever draw tag for due to lack of tags because they say the numbers are down on Bulls.  Yes the Indian shot it.  As for area it doesn't matter I know where it was killed and that's good enough for me! The rest can guess as far as I am concerned!

It's an educated guess using the best available science.  I also think it's far more accurate in the Colockum and Yakima herds than say, anywhere in western washington.

Agreed 100% west side is a Frickin guess 100%. 

[Tbar]

my bros...oh yes, I forgot, we all know each other and all are best of buddies.  Sorry but I'm not a poacher and sorry to disappoint you but I actually do step out of my truck. since you know so much o of the bull  why not share some info?

If something was illegal in the killing of this bull why noThoughiIdoubt e the info instead of beating around the bush side stepping the request?  Hey hunterrcc, did you andyour buddy from thorp have fun shooting over 30 deer and leaving them to waste? Or how about your bros that poached the 2 bulls down in the blues?  Though I doubt you actually know them I'm just making making assumptions like you.

Actually that poacher that shot the deer is getting in trouble just like the other guys in the blues not enough if you ask me but no one does anymore. They are not my kind and I am not ok with the killing the animals unlike you defending the Indians killing big Bulls year after year no limits or oversite Involved ever!  I guess it would make sense you would be offend when I lump you into that Indian group because you too like to shoot Bulls like this!     Like blman stated they get in trouble and can be prosecuted unlike natives!

Hunterrcc, again you are making a generalization that is flat out wrong.  There have been several recent prosecutions in tribal courts that are far more severe than the punishments (basing on recent poaching convictions) handed out by the state systems.  I will concede that this is a somewhat new trend but it's one that I will at least recognize.

[hunterrcc]

Dude this area is not a general season any elk it's a true spike only unless youre lucky a f*** and draw one of its very very very few tags. 

Actually you can see many 300" bulls from the road if you know where to look and especially say your in the hills come dec/jan!  Not to say non tribal are perfect they are not but the number of Indians shooting animals does way more damage to the bull elk numbers for this unit then any other group hands down.  Our state turns a blind eye to it. 

Again, they were there for the guys who were lucky a f***s who got drawn. Instead of complaining about the tribal hunters who are taking out the big bulls because they can, complain to the state who makes you hunt true spike, so a couple lucky a f***s and tribal hunters can hunt all the big bulls if that is what you are interested in. What's the point in protecting the big bulls if they are going to get taken out anyway? The State might as well have a 5 pt bull hunt for everybody. Then the native hunters will have to take spikes and cows and small branched bulls I guess.

But your anger is misplaced. Instead of the tribal hunters, you should be upset with the state and their management scheme.

I am stealing this plan from a friend but I say open up elk to any bull state wide for 2 month season let everyone have a shot at the Bulls and knock them down big time and then once all these big Bulls are back to pre management of bull numbers and Indians are not able to shoot trophy Bulls all winter only the small Bulls and cows because there are not any to shoot then we can talk management with indians.  they don't have a choice because right now there is no reason to change for them it is the best hunting they have every had! Big Bulls no pressure from non natives! No reason to change for them or make any deals take away that hand and then maybe they will manage together and use their political power to help manage the elk like others states. Plus they could make thousands of dollars on the hunts instead of a couple hundred for a head.

[PlateauNDN]

I'm not the one getting and jumping to conclusions. You don't know me and I don't know  so I guess we can just agree to disagree.  I'm sure you know the specifics but you're not helping the cause by not sharing something about it.  Is there some flaw or something inaccurate about your "story" is that why you don't care to share facts about it? Is the pic you provided supposed to be the taxi or the hunter? Or do you even know?

[hunterrcc]

I'm not the one getting and jumping to conclusions. You don't know me and I don't know  so I guess we can just agree to disagree.  I'm sure you know the specifics but you're not helping the cause by not sharing something about it.  Is there some flaw or something inaccurate about your "story" is that why you don't care to share facts about it? Is the pic you provided supposed to be the taxi or the hunter? Or do you even know?

Plat I know enough to share the photo so don't worry about the rest I think it really pisses you off that I know what you guys do and you don't know my sources.   Guy shot it this winter you know where like i do.  Also the young Indian hunter doesn't look much the part of an Indian meaning he is pretty white! also know the taxi does pretty crappy looking work from what I have seen come out of his shop.

[Time Immemorial]

I would beg to differ maybe 404"!  Just a well educated guess.  I am mad and you should be too when we spent all the time and money to grow all these Bulls by not over harvesting them for many years to just have Indians shoot as many as they want to Every year and then we are limited to a handful of tags to wait years over.  As for getting out of the truck and finding big Bulls I have had no problem finding big Bulls my friend but maybe I will try stepping out of the truck that is awesome advise just don't tell the Indians that!

Must not be very well edjumacated lol, I didn't realize that you was growing elk in Washington, and natives money must grow on trees also eh? Because gas and bullets don't fall from the sky bud.