Need advice on gear!

[sagewalker]

I am going on a 10 day hunt in the Frank Church Wilderness next year. Getting flown in and drop a base camp, then hike 6 miles or so and set up spike camp. We will be hauling game back and forth to basecamp anywhere from 1-8 miles away. My father and a few of my uncles have done this hunt many of times, this will be my first trip. Just listening to their different experiences and what they would have done different next time, I need to go in as light weight as possible. I am looking for advice on lightweight 0 degree sleeping bags, light weight bivy sacks, sleeping pads and also packs. I am looking into the Kuiu Icon Pro 7200, anyone have any experince with these packs? If anyone has any good advice or can point me in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated! Thank you all in advance. 

[Stein]

Start with the heaviest things first, that is where you will save the most weight.  For most people, that is themselves.  Loose 10 pounds and you will be in much better shape.

Regarding packs, if you want a light one, it won't be in camo.  Look at mountaineering and backpacking sites.  Go on Youtube and search for ultralight backpacking and you will have more information than you can imagine.

Carrying the weight is also key, you could have a 5# pack and get smoked in the first mile if you aren't ready.  Load up and head to the hills to train.  I did a race with a pack, you can find local races starting at 5k and working up to a marathon.

[sagewalker]

Good info thank you!

[Jonathan_S]

In order of importance for me...

Pack
Tent/Sleeping Bag
Rain Gear

Pack is tricky because it also has to fit well.  I'd rather have a heavier frame/bag if it sits well 

The tent and bag are just going to be dang expensive, really no way around it.

[sagewalker]

Agreed, I know its going to be spendy. But, I want gear that I am not going to have to buy once a year and last me a long while!

[7mag.]

Are you backpacking in? Are you packing out your game on your back? Or, are you going with an outfitter, drop camp? Answering those questions will change your needs for gear dramatically.

[hogslayer]

If it were me I would buy these items.
Kifaru duplex frame with timberline 1 bag
Thermarest xtherm sleeping pad
Enlightened equipment quilt

I would also go to REI and try on numerous different boots and see which one fits you the best.  Zamberlan,lowa, scarpa are some good brands to name a few.  As far as a tent goes, depends on how many people and how bad the bugs are going to be. But I like floor less with or without a big net.  Kifaru wins the competition on those in my opinion.

[Jonathan_S]

If it were me I would buy these items.
Kifaru duplex frame with timberline 1 bag
Thermarest xtherm sleeping pad
Enlightened equipment quilt

I would also go to REI and try on numerous different boots and see which one fits you the best.  Zamberlan,lowa, scarpa are some good brands to name a few.  As far as a tent goes, depends on how many people and how bad the bugs are going to be. But I like floor less with or without a big net.  Kifaru wins the competition on those in my opinion.

I am too afraid of snakes anymore.  I woke up next to a 3' rattler in a floorless tent.  Never again.

[sagewalker]

If it were me I would buy these items.
Kifaru duplex frame with timberline 1 bag
Thermarest xtherm sleeping pad
Enlightened equipment quilt

I would also go to REI and try on numerous different boots and see which one fits you the best.  Zamberlan,lowa, scarpa are some good brands to name a few.  As far as a tent goes, depends on how many people and how bad the bugs are going to be. But I like floor less with or without a big net.  Kifaru wins the competition on those in my opinion.

How are these packs in the rain and snow?

[hogslayer]

Every pack you will find will require a rain fly in heavy rain.  Light snow would roll off.  But just get a 7 ounce rain fly and you'll be set.  Main thing I look for in a pack is versatility for different hunts and most importantly load hauling.  Stone glacier and kifaru are on a different level then Exo and kuiu.

[7mag.]

If it were me I would buy these items.
Kifaru duplex frame with timberline 1 bag
Thermarest xtherm sleeping pad
Enlightened equipment quilt

I would also go to REI and try on numerous different boots and see which one fits you the best.  Zamberlan,lowa, scarpa are some good brands to name a few.  As far as a tent goes, depends on how many people and how bad the bugs are going to be. But I like floor less with or without a big net.  Kifaru wins the competition on those in my opinion.

I agree. Kifaru sets the bar for backpack hunting. They are expensive but worth it.

You need to prioritize your gear needs. The most important are:
Good lightweight boots
Good load hauling pack (not backpacking pack from REI)
Quality lightweight sleeping bag or quilt
Comfortable pad

I prefer floorless shelters, but they aren't for everyone. You'll need good quality synthetic game bags too. Check out the B.O.M.B bags from Pristine Ventures, they're the best I know of.

Good rain gear is important. I like Kuiu Chugach, it's been great for me. A lightweight insulation layer is also needed. I usually use a puffy jacket, either down or synthetic. Fleece works pretty well too. Get quality clothing, and don't take too much of it. Clothing weight adds up fast.

[follow maggie]

Start buying gear now. If you buy a piece here and there, you can afford to spend more than if you buy it all at the same time. Buy the best you can afford. generally, better = more expensive.

[sagewalker]

Start buying gear now. If you buy a piece here and there, you can afford to spend more than if you buy it all at the same time. Buy the best you can afford. generally, better = more expensive.

I agree

[sagewalker]

Every pack you will find will require a rain fly in heavy rain.  Light snow would roll off.  But just get a 7 ounce rain fly and you'll be set.  Main thing I look for in a pack is versatility for different hunts and most importantly load hauling.  Stone glacier and kifaru are on a different level then Exo and kuiu.

Have you personally owned all of these packs you're referring too?

[sagewalker]

Anyone have anymore advice? This can't be all there is out there!!!!

[Jonathan_S]

Bags...down.  Keep 'em dry.  Pads...there are two things to consider, weight and R value.

[sagewalker]

Bags...down.  Keep 'em dry.  Pads...there are two things to consider, weight and R value.

Any recommendations on bags and pads?

[Jonathan_S]

I cannot remember exactly what pad...it is an inflatable pad.  R Value of 1.5 and packs down to the size of a chowder can.  My bag is a Marmot synthetic 15 degree bag.  It is very heavy at nearly 3 lbs but I don't pack in farther than 5-7 miles usually and I spike and hunt from there vs carrying camp around and moving.

http://www.rei.com/product/864092/marmot-lithium-sleeping-bag 

A bag like this is what I would go for in your situation.  With a bag that warm, you can afford to go with a less insulated sleeping pad. 

PM some guys like whuppinstick, XxLojackxX and others who are really into the backcountry hunts.

[bracer40]

REI.com has excellent articles detailing how to select sleeping bags, pads and tents based on your needs. They are in the learning section.
Backpacker magazine also has an annual gear issue where new stuff is tested by users in the field.

[Karl Blanchard]

For that hunt you are gonna want a 0° bag.  Any of the good brands will work.  Big Agnes, Sierra designs, mountain hardware, kuiu, etc.  Remember,  counting ounces is cool and all but if your super lite gear doesn't function and you quite your hunt early, then your pack weight doesn't matter.  Big agnes, thermarest, klymit, and others are all great pads, just make sure they are insulated with a r value of like 4 or better.  You will see Temps in the single digits and possibly lower in the church in Novemeber.

I'm a tent guy.  Not a fan of bivy's.  If you don't sleep well in confined spaces, go with a tent.

So many clothing options it's crazy.  I use first lite and so far am very pleased.

To get fully set up with good, lightweight gear you are looking at $3k+.  Remember one thing, gear doesn't kill animals.  Grit, bush skills, and determination, kill animals.  Set a budget for what you are willing to spend on gear between now and game day, then find the gear that will fit that budget.  All that fancy gear is worthless if you cant afford gas to get to McCall.  Don't forget to learn to use it all before you go.  A snow storm on the salmon in November is no time to try and learn to make a fire with flint, steel, and trioxane. 

[ctwiggs1]

Start with the heaviest things first, that is where you will save the most weight.  For most people, that is themselves.  Loose 10 pounds and you will be in much better shape.

SO TRUE!! You'll have better stamina AND be supporting less weight!!

[kentrek]

What an awesome adventure! 

That weather can get pretty nasty ! Even in early October it's been below zero with crazy winds...

Everyone is abit different but I've found i sleep better in a bivy than a tent during fowl weather....also since your in a group I'd recommend having a tarp & a fire...something easy that can be taken down pending on winds....sleep with your heads under the tarp an keep your bivy wide open 

The best sleeping pads I've found is whiskey. ...really  but I like the z pad for warmth and the Klymit xlight for a bit of comfort. .that way you have the best of all world's and are still relatively light, if you do go with the fully inflatable options be very careful not to pop it ! Sleeping on snow or frozen ground really sucks

Good luck ! Pick your camps wisely and have a blast

[Shawn Ryan]

Bags...down.  Keep 'em dry.  Pads...there are two things to consider, weight and R value.

Any recommendations on bags and pads?

ExPed makes some great pads with good R values. An R rating of 4+ would be good. You can get an R rating of 7 with some of ExPeds down mats.

Consider a down quilt in place of a bag. Enlightened Equipment makes great quilts and you customize your order. If you move much in your sleep, a quilt doesn't get tangled like a bag can. Less weight and less money than comparable bags.

Your trip sounds like a family trip a friend takes each year into the Church. Is one of your uncles named Don?

[Karl Blanchard]

Bags...down.  Keep 'em dry.  Pads...there are two things to consider, weight and R value.

Any recommendations on bags and pads?

ExPed makes some great pads with good R values. An R rating of 4+ would be good. You can get an R rating of 7 with some of ExPeds down mats.

Consider a down quilt in place of a bag. Enlightened Equipment makes great quilts and you customize your order. If you move much in your sleep, a quilt doesn't get tangled like a bag can. Less weight and less money than comparable bags.

Your trip sounds like a family trip a friend takes each year into the Church. Is one of your uncles named Don?

  Hey Shawn,  I have a quilt question for ya.  So I JUST got my EE 0° quilt in the mail and I am VERY skeptical on its temp rating.  Have you used yours down close to its temp rating?  I'll be taking it for elk in September and then to Idaho again in October for deer to give it a good run, but at this point I don't think I will be planning on packing g it for Colorado in November temps.  It's so light,  I am convinced they sent me the wrong bag!   I can see light through parts of it,  even after really shaking the down.  Is this normal?

[Shawn Ryan]

Mine is a 20° quilt and I've used it down to about 35° in CO a few weeks ago. I was plenty warm and very comfortable. It is super light as you've said, but high quality 800 fill down. I will have no hesitation using it at its rating.  I can see the light through the down just as you're saying, too.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

[Karl Blanchard]

Mine is a 20° quilt and I've used it down to about 35° in CO a few weeks ago. I was plenty warm and very comfortable. It is super light as you've said, but high quality 800 fill down. I will have no hesitation using it at its rating.  I can see the light through the down just as you're saying, too.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

  awesome!  Thank you!  Comfort wise, it is day and night to a traditional mummy, so I figure worst case, it doesn't perform to rating but I could still use it in September for elk and have a bag that only weights 20oz!  I was Def experiencing some buyers remorse when it showed up though

[Shawn Ryan]

Mine is a 20° quilt and I've used it down to about 35° in CO a few weeks ago. I was plenty warm and very comfortable. It is super light as you've said, but high quality 800 fill down. I will have no hesitation using it at its rating.  I can see the light through the down just as you're saying, too.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

  awesome!  Thank you!  Comfort wise, it is day and night to a traditional mummy, so I figure worst case, it doesn't perform to rating but I could still use it in September for elk and have a bag that only weights 20oz!  I was Def experiencing some buyers remorse when it showed up though

No remorse for me. I really like it. I move a lot and always end up twisted in my bag with the zipper wrapped under and over me. Not an issue at all with the quilt. In CO I was sleeping on a Big Agnes insulated air core, about 4.1 R rating.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

[Karl Blanchard]

Mine is a 20° quilt and I've used it down to about 35° in CO a few weeks ago. I was plenty warm and very comfortable. It is super light as you've said, but high quality 800 fill down. I will have no hesitation using it at its rating.  I can see the light through the down just as you're saying, too.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

  awesome!  Thank you!  Comfort wise, it is day and night to a traditional mummy, so I figure worst case, it doesn't perform to rating but I could still use it in September for elk and have a bag that only weights 20oz!  I was Def experiencing some buyers remorse when it showed up though

No remorse for me. I really like it. I move a lot and always end up twisted in my bag with the zipper wrapped under and over me. Not an issue at all with the quilt. In CO I was sleeping on a Big Agnes insulated air core, about 4.1 R rating.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

  I'm the same way, hence the quilt purchase   I picked up a BA insulated qcore sl this year and am loving it!

[Shawn Ryan]

I hope you really like it. Huge weight savings. BTW, I am thin and sleep "cold," so if it keeps me warm, that's saying something.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

[CAMPMEAT]

You're asking about pacs etc and getting good info, but, don't forget about 10 days worth of food and water too.

[blackveltbowhunter]

You will have a great time!!

   Have you back pack hunted before? Is the group staying together or will you be solo often? Are you planning to repeat this every year?

Since its always the hot topic, Heres my break down on packs....A few will break under a load, a few will break after some tuff trips, and put enough weight in them and they will all break you. Last year I had significant amount of weight in a badlands pack for 2 miles ( downhill  ) I didn't break, but the pack did. Nothing major but some straps and buckles. I had packed a 10 pound pack around to have failure when I needed it most. Was it worth it. Absolutley. Earlier on in the year I had the choice, out of state tags, or new pack. Killing that bull and breaking the pack was worth a hundred times more than sitting in my living room looking at a new one. That said I purchased a Kifaru this year as it was in the budget, and can say it is all they are cracked up to be. I have tried several others as well. Not extensivley but enough to make an informed decision.

   My point is Kifaru is having your cake and eating it to. Tuff, pretty light, very durable, well thought out, and IMO the most comfortable with max weights. whether its 55 or 155, YOUR max weight will feel best in a kifaru. But ANY of the packs will get the job done. My priority is durability and comfort with what is heavy weight to me. That may not be yours. My hunting partner prefers to run as light of pack as he can, he likes the kuiu Ultra. I know guys that never hunt solo or are always in a group, splitting an elk 5 or 6 ways or having the weather to facilitate multiple trips makes carrying all that weight in one trip seem pointless.

   A good night sleep. IMO the most important thing on a trip lasting more than three days. I have slept through high wind, rain, snow, and a thunderstorm rolled over last night I wouldnt have even known about if my partner hadnt mentioned it. But if I wake up cold, im done sleeping. This is subjective, but this is one area I will not skimp weight. If I had to pack ten pound bag to get a good night sleep I would. I would be thinking Marmot helium, Plasma 15, Western mOuntaneering Badger, feathered friends etc.... For top of the line bags that are low weight and close to holding a comfort temp rating. Personally I would do a zero degree bag.

Quality Pad: So many options, I would look for around a pound, and r value of 3 or better. Thermarest, Exped, Big agnes, etc.

Also consider a sleep aid, whiskey, melatonin, or tylenol PM.

Shelters: Im not much use here..... I run a marmot Aura 2 man tent or Black Diamond Bivy, I have been very satisified with both for the money spent. But Im in the market for upgrades and options are seemingling endless and mind boggling, and at this point Im just frustrated with the whole process.

Sorry for rambling good luck this fall!

 

[Karl Blanchard]

You're asking about pacs etc and getting good info, but, don't forget about 10 days worth of food and water too.

  I sent this in a pm but I figure I could just post it here too.  This is what IDO.  Not saying this is how anyone else should do it, but it works very well for me and keeps things from getting overly boring.


OK so food is always tough for me because I get bored eating the same stuff but on a backpack hunt, keeping things simple and consistent is key so I have a few core items that I pack but I change it up.  I divide food into daily rations and put them in labeled ziplock bags so I can just grab "tuesday" out of my big pullout I use for all my food and then move it to a more accessible spot in my pack.  This is usually the top lid to my pack.  These are my items I pull from.  This way your not eating the same thing every day.

breakfast
-granola/dried bluberries/protein powder (just add water, stir up in the ziplock you packed it in and BAM!  Granola and blueberry cereal with some added protein.)
-crap sandwich (refer to notes below)
-Pastry (the prepacked bearclaws or cinnamon rolls from the gas station)

Lunch
-Ramen noodles
-Tuna packet with olive oil and hot sauce
-Peanut butter and crackers
-hard salami, cheese, bagel sandwich (not my favorite)

snacks
-jerky
-nuts
-Go Goo (usually a couple)
-Fruit leather
-Protein bar

I pack all of these snacks for each day and consume them between meals.  I find that I don't get very hungry, especially late season, when I'm hunting but you are still burning calories so force yourself to eat a snack every few hours.

Dinner

This never changes.  Its always some flavor of Mountain house, I mix up a Wilderness Athlete Hydrate and Recover drink (little single packets) for a drink.  I used to use EmergenC but I think the Wilderness Athlete drink mix gives me more bang for my buck.  Then I I have a king size candy bar of some kind for desert.  

Drink lots of water

Ingredients in a crap sandwich
 Take a bagel, spread honey on one side, a TON of peanut butter on the other, and stack bacon high in between.  We call it a crap sandwich because after 3 or 4 days in your pack it looks like you *censored* in a bag!   They are out of this world good though!  I usually eat them for breakfast every morning until they are gone, as they are perishable, eventually.  I pre make them, then freeze them.  I usually pack 4 or 5.  Although, late season like that they would probably stay good for the full trip due to the cold temps.

I buy Extra virgin olive oil single packets off amazon and put them in all of my Mountain house and in my tuna pouches.  They contain essential fats and really boost the calories in your meals.  I also buy my peanutbutter singles off amazon.  One other thing I pack is Tapatio single packets.  I buy them off a local burger joint here in town but I bet you could find them on amazon if you like hot sauce and want to add some flavor to your food.

I'm sure I forgot a bunch of stuff as I can't seem to find my excel lists and am doing this all off the top of my head (wife cleaned up the computer ).  When I find them I will update anything I missed.

Make yourself a gear list you can print off, that way when you go to pack, you can check the items off as you go.  My core gear never changes, except for my shelter and sleeping bag changes with the seasons and the amount of food.  Whether I go out for a day or ten, the core items always go.

[Jonathan_S]

Mine is a 20° quilt and I've used it down to about 35° in CO a few weeks ago. I was plenty warm and very comfortable. It is super light as you've said, but high quality 800 fill down. I will have no hesitation using it at its rating.  I can see the light through the down just as you're saying, too.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

  awesome!  Thank you!  Comfort wise, it is day and night to a traditional mummy, so I figure worst case, it doesn't perform to rating but I could still use it in September for elk and have a bag that only weights 20oz!  I was Def experiencing some buyers remorse when it showed up though

No remorse for me. I really like it. I move a lot and always end up twisted in my bag with the zipper wrapped under and over me. Not an issue at all with the quilt. In CO I was sleeping on a Big Agnes insulated air core, about 4.1 R rating.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

The only thing I am skeptical about with those is that there is no hood for when it's downright cold.  Beyond that they seem way more comfortable.

[blackveltbowhunter]

BLR, Off hand do you know the aproximate weight per daily bag of food? We have similar lists and tastes.   Although I tend to run prepped oatmeal instead of granola as I like to enjoy hot food and coffee in the am. Means I have to get up early...Oh well Love the olive oil single packet idea

[Karl Blanchard]

Oh man I forgot coffee on the list!!!!!  I usually wait till I'm in my glassing spot for coffee though.  If elk hunting I have it for breakfast.  You can also do the granola with hot water too.  Olive oil is beyond awesome!  I haven't weighted it as I don't cut weight in the food department but probably around 1.5lbs I'm thinking.

[blackveltbowhunter]

Thanks! I think your right on I am between 1.2 and 1.8 depending on how much variety I want. The bagel sandwhiches and trail mix add up! But so much better than larabars and jerky for every snack and lunch!

[Karl Blanchard]

Thanks! I think your right on I am between 1.2 and 1.8 depending on how much variety I want. The bagel sandwhiches and trail mix add up! But so much better than larabars and jerky for every snack and lunch!

totally agree!  I'd carry cans of chili and dinty  Moore stew again before I tried to micro manage weight from my food supply.

[mburrows]

Have you guys seen these? Just bought couple as an alternative to have to boil coffee.

https://www.getgrinds.com/

[Karl Blanchard]

Have you guys seen these? Just bought couple as an alternative to have to boil coffee.

https://www.getgrinds.com/

I haven't seen those before.  For me though,  coffee is more than just caffeine.  It's a warm tasty drink that kick starts my day.  Heck I drink coffee for lunch and dinner on the mountain sometimes.

[mburrows]

Have you guys seen these? Just bought couple as an alternative to have to boil coffee.

https://www.getgrinds.com/

I haven't seen those before.  For me though,  coffee is more than just caffeine.  It's a warm tasty drink that kick starts my day.  Heck I drink coffee for lunch and dinner on the mountain sometimes.

Gotcha. It is tough to beat a nice cup of coffee.

[Shawn Ryan]

From Jonathan:  "The only thing I am skeptical about with those is that there is no hood for when it's downright cold.  Beyond that they seem way more comfortable."


That could be absolutely correct. I don't have any experience to back this up with a quilt...but when I've been in my down mummy bag, I've found that a tight fit around my neck and a beenie is what I needed. I've tried putting my head under/inside the bag only to find that the condensation was terrible.  I read some guys buying quilts extra long with the intent of pulling them over their heads. I imagine the condensation would likewise be terrible.  I've read (from guys that say they have experience) that quilts don't work well much below 0 degrees F.  For the weight savings and versatility, I'd be willing to use the removable down hood from my parka or purchase a down hood, if I thought I needed it for a real cold trip.  I like multi-use gear, so using other gear to bump up the R value works for me. 

Sagewalker, I don't mean to hi-jack your thread. Hope the discussion helps you decide what might work for you.  Sounds like an awesome trip with family.  I've hunted and hiked the edges of the Church, but never taken the fly-in trip deep into the middle.  Hope you get gear that serves you well and the trip is all you dream it will be.

[Shawn Ryan]

As for bivy sacks, it depends on what your desire and needs are. I've used Titanium Goat's Omni Raven for about 6 years.  Very light (9 oz's with bug net hood) and keeps me dry. I have not slept in it outside the shelter in a downpour, though--and don't want to.  I did sleep in it in the Sept. '13 deluge in the Cascades, under a tarp, and it performed well.

[buckmaster_wa]

Take it from me. Don't skimp out on your sleeping bag. I was in the Church a few years ago with a 30 degree bag and even with all my clothes on, I still froze my butt off. But it was a good learning experience. I have much better gear now.   

Take seasonings to cook any animals you kill on the hill. Between my hunting partner and myself, we consumed both backstraps, tenderloins and some hind quarter before we hiked off the mountain. The only downside to doing this is, sometimes Fish and Game will actually fly in to landing strips and give out tickets if your game bags are too light.

Take your hygiene items. The hot springs are scattered around the landing strips and feel amazing after being on the mountain for days.

You will see a lot of foot traffic down by the landing strip but there are very few people that actually spike out beyond about 5 miles. The farthest I went in was 8 miles and that put me beyond anyone else that was there. However It seemed there were more deer down lower.

You will have a awesome trip for sure. And im sure your uncles will send you in a good direction. I cant wait to go in there again.

[buckmaster_wa]

Also the peanut butter bacon sammiches are amazing. I also like to make velveeta mac and cheese or instant mashed potatoes with fresh deer meat on the mountain. They are light weight and make a big batch of food.

[sagewalker]

Bags...down.  Keep 'em dry.  Pads...there are two things to consider, weight and R value.

Any recommendations on bags and pads?

ExPed makes some great pads with good R values. An R rating of 4+ would be good. You can get an R rating of 7 with some of ExPeds down mats.

Consider a down quilt in place of a bag. Enlightened Equipment makes great quilts and you customize your order. If you move much in your sleep, a quilt doesn't get tangled like a bag can. Less weight and less money than comparable bags.

Your trip sounds like a family trip a friend takes each year into the Church. Is one of your uncles named Don?

No Uncle Don here!

[blackveltbowhunter]

One of the biggest mistakes I made in the beginning and have seen and heard many others make is simply taking to much stuff. I do not consider myself an ultra lightweight junky, but I dont want to carry excess either. Besides getting decent gear especially for the "big three" (pack, shelter, sleep system) A ton of weight can be saved by simply trimming excess "stuff". Alot of this is trial and error , but searching through forums such as Backpacker Community, Backpacking Light, etc...can give alot of ideas. Rokslide is another good site, although I think it has gone downhill somewhat over the last year I still visit it fairly regularly. Having done the backcountry stuff for over ten years now I still seems like I often get stuck thinking i need to lighten some big money item, when I could often save the same or more weight by simply altering a certain item or leaving it home.

[Karl Blanchard]

One of the biggest mistakes I made in the beginning and have seen and heard many others make is simply taking to much stuff. I do not consider myself an ultra lightweight junky, but I dont want to carry excess either. Besides getting decent gear especially for the "big three" (pack, shelter, sleep system) A ton of weight can be saved by simply trimming excess "stuff". Alot of this is trial and error , but searching through forums such as Backpacker Community, Backpacking Light, etc...can give alot of ideas. Rokslide is another good site, although I think it has gone downhill somewhat over the last year I still visit it fairly regularly. Having done the backcountry stuff for over ten years now I still seems like I often get stuck thinking i need to lighten some big money item, when I could often save the same or more weight by simply altering a certain item or leaving it home.

  Also clothes!  Everytime I see someone post a packing list it seems like they always contain, 5 pairs of socks, 6 pairs of underwear, extra pants, etc.   Good coat, good base layer, maybe one or two socks, and a vest and extra top and call it good.  The newer clothes based on layering systems make it very simple to stick to exactly what you need.