Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?

[theleo]

It is a .458x305 grain bullet built for the 45-70 rifle.  It is a long bullet, but it will stabilize in a 1-28 twist if you shoot it with authority.  I shoot it with 110 grains of T7-3f powder to get the velocity up. ALSO this is a bullet built for a 45-70 so it is slightly less in diameter than a normal ML bullet - instead of using a .458 x 50 sabot I use a MMP HPH-24 sabot (a .452x50 sabot) - this sabot will grip the bore and the bullet tighter insuring no slippage of the bullet in the sabot and no slippage by the sabot in the bore.

The bullet works very well on the thicker skinned elk and equally well on a thin skinned 4x4 Whitetail buck. One day I was frustrated elk hunter when this basketball sized Whitetail rack appeared on the scene about 60 yards out.  Frustration took over and I shot the deer.

Anyway it is a great bullet also.

In my mind the 275gr. Bloodline is the best all around bullet of the bunch... but I will hang on the 305's

I enjoy reading your posts Sabotloader but I'm always curious about your bullet choices. I'm knew to muzzle loading so I'm just asking because I'm learning, but why not use soft lead bullets meant for hunting with 45-70's or 454 cassull's. Seems you could get a heavier bullet to stabilize as the density is higher than that of mono bullets of one design or another? I admit I get to cheat a little bit because I cast and can play with different alloys and choose flat, cup, or hollow points but just curious what I'd be giving up performance wise?

[Sabotloader]

It is a .458x305 grain bullet built for the 45-70 rifle.  It is a long bullet, but it will stabilize in a 1-28 twist if you shoot it with authority.  I shoot it with 110 grains of T7-3f powder to get the velocity up. ALSO this is a bullet built for a 45-70 so it is slightly less in diameter than a normal ML bullet - instead of using a .458 x 50 sabot I use a MMP HPH-24 sabot (a .452x50 sabot) - this sabot will grip the bore and the bullet tighter insuring no slippage of the bullet in the sabot and no slippage by the sabot in the bore.

The bullet works very well on the thicker skinned elk and equally well on a thin skinned 4x4 Whitetail buck. One day I was frustrated elk hunter when this basketball sized Whitetail rack appeared on the scene about 60 yards out.  Frustration took over and I shot the deer.

Anyway it is a great bullet also.

In my mind the 275gr. Bloodline is the best all around bullet of the bunch... but I will hang on the 305's

I enjoy reading your posts Sabotloader but I'm always curious about your bullet choices. I'm knew to muzzle loading so I'm just asking because I'm learning, but why not use soft lead bullets meant for hunting with 45-70's or 454 cassull's. Seems you could get a heavier bullet to stabilize as the density is higher than that of mono bullets of one design or another? I admit I get to cheat a little bit because I cast and can play with different alloys and choose flat, cup, or hollow points but just curious what I'd be giving up performance wise?

Really and right down to it - many bullets will work very well on elk if the hunter does his or hers part and understands the performance limitations of the bullet they choose to use.

Your choice to use or build your own lead bullets is great for you and many others.  In fact I use a .503x460 MT NEx Bull Shop here doing our ML season because by rule that is what I have to use. But during rifle season I would use what I feel is a much faster quickly acting bullet.

For me - the Lehigh or Lehigh/Bloodlines offer a wider range of 'Terminal Performance' than most any other bullet. I have less variables that I need to worry about and know that I will get a clean quick harvest even if I am off target 3-4" inches.  At my age I really need a bullet but that will provide a max destruction of internal organs yet provide great penetration from 10 yards to 200 yards.  It is important to me that the bullet induce enough traumatic shock to the animal that it overrides the animals 'flight response ' system.  Of course I can not guarantee that every time but I know from many years of use it will do it a majority of the time.

A few years ago someone asked me for my definition of a 'great' hunting bullet - I plagiarized most of this but this is my definition...

The Hunting bullet should be the most lethal big game hunting bullet available.   The bullet design should allow the bullet to penetrate 2” to 3”, through bone or tissue, before it starts to expand the petals.  After the bullet starts to expand or shed it petals it should adversely affect all the surrounding internal organs.  The combination between the expansion of the bullet and/or release of the petals and the creation of hydrostatic shock produces a massive wound cavity within the vital area (internal organs) that can be 13” to 15” long.  I believe that in most case the bullet should pass through the body providing a secondary exit hole for blood and debris.  This massive wound cavity results in the animal dropping fast since most go into shock after such a tremendous blow.  Those animals that don’t go down immediately will soon succumb to blood pressure loss and/or organ failure producing a quick ethical kill.  Using a bullet matching this description will normally result in an animal that goes down fast so you can enjoy the results of your hunt without having to track the wounded animal any distance after the shot.

For me the Lehigh design has fulfilled this definition.

Hope some of this makes sense!

mike

[theleo]

It is a .458x305 grain bullet built for the 45-70 rifle.  It is a long bullet, but it will stabilize in a 1-28 twist if you shoot it with authority.  I shoot it with 110 grains of T7-3f powder to get the velocity up. ALSO this is a bullet built for a 45-70 so it is slightly less in diameter than a normal ML bullet - instead of using a .458 x 50 sabot I use a MMP HPH-24 sabot (a .452x50 sabot) - this sabot will grip the bore and the bullet tighter insuring no slippage of the bullet in the sabot and no slippage by the sabot in the bore.

The bullet works very well on the thicker skinned elk and equally well on a thin skinned 4x4 Whitetail buck. One day I was frustrated elk hunter when this basketball sized Whitetail rack appeared on the scene about 60 yards out.  Frustration took over and I shot the deer.

Anyway it is a great bullet also.

In my mind the 275gr. Bloodline is the best all around bullet of the bunch... but I will hang on the 305's

I enjoy reading your posts Sabotloader but I'm always curious about your bullet choices. I'm knew to muzzle loading so I'm just asking because I'm learning, but why not use soft lead bullets meant for hunting with 45-70's or 454 cassull's. Seems you could get a heavier bullet to stabilize as the density is higher than that of mono bullets of one design or another? I admit I get to cheat a little bit because I cast and can play with different alloys and choose flat, cup, or hollow points but just curious what I'd be giving up performance wise?

Really and right down to it - many bullets will work very well on elk if the hunter does his or hers part and understands the performance limitations of the bullet they choose to use.

Your choice to use or build your own lead bullets is great for you and many others.  In fact I use a .503x460 MT NEx Bull Shop here doing our ML season because by rule that is what I have to use. But during rifle season I would use what I feel is a much faster quickly acting bullet.

For me - the Lehigh or Lehigh/Bloodlines offer a wider range of 'Terminal Performance' than most any other bullet. I have less variables that I need to worry about and know that I will get a clean quick harvest even if I am off target 3-4" inches.  At my age I really need a bullet but that will provide a max destruction of internal organs yet provide great penetration from 10 yards to 200 yards.  It is important to me that the bullet induce enough traumatic shock to the animal that it overrides the animals 'flight response ' system.  Of course I can not guarantee that every time but I know from many years of use it will do it a majority of the time.

A few years ago someone asked me for my definition of a 'great' hunting bullet - I plagiarized most of this but this is my definition...

The Hunting bullet should be the most lethal big game hunting bullet available.   The bullet design should allow the bullet to penetrate 2” to 3”, through bone or tissue, before it starts to expand the petals.  After the bullet starts to expand or shed it petals it should adversely affect all the surrounding internal organs.  The combination between the expansion of the bullet and/or release of the petals and the creation of hydrostatic shock produces a massive wound cavity within the vital area (internal organs) that can be 13” to 15” long.  I believe that in most case the bullet should pass through the body providing a secondary exit hole for blood and debris.  This massive wound cavity results in the animal dropping fast since most go into shock after such a tremendous blow.  Those animals that don’t go down immediately will soon succumb to blood pressure loss and/or organ failure producing a quick ethical kill.  Using a bullet matching this description will normally result in an animal that goes down fast so you can enjoy the results of your hunt without having to track the wounded animal any distance after the shot.

For me the Lehigh design has fulfilled this definition.

Hope some of this makes sense!

mike

Yep, it does. Lots of damage quick but still maintain a minimum of full caliber wound channel for straight line penitration through the animal. Same concept as pushing a partition  fast enough to blow the nose off in cartridge rounds? Just used to mono bullets in modern guns sometimes not having the velocity to expand reliably. Like I said, I'm new to muzzle loaders but I appreciate the clarification as to why you choose them.

[Westside88]

My bighorn stainless sitting in the Boyd's stock

That's an awesome looking rifle

[usmc74]

My hunting load is 110 gr 777 3F, and a Barnes TMZ 290.  Holds a pretty good group at 200 yards.  Just target practicing, I shoot the 300 gr SST (cheaper).

Usually carry 3 reloaders ready to go when hunting.  Practice your fast reloading.  First time I shot at anything, I was all fumbles trying to get reloaded.

Practice, and get good groups, then practice shooting from different positions, and then practice like you hunt (pack, camo, binoculars, etc).  Its amazing what you learn will get in the way of shooting when you are all decked out.

[Westside88]

Thanks for the tips, I've given it a cleaning and verified it's going to fire the caps. Now I'm headed out today to shoot it a bit. Im going to start with triple seven, #11 caps and 300 grain bloodlines. I'm just getting the hang of what accessories I'm going to need( so far I already know I need a starter and some breach plug grease)  I also need to figure out the cleaning, such as use of gun oil, or not.  It sounds like maybe for storage then clean the barrel well prior to use, as well as the breach plug and nipple. I hear about swabbing between shots. It that every time or every couple? It sure has been nice getting advice from everyone while getting started.

[Westside88]

I have the bighorn with thumb hole and love it. If anyone hears of sportsmans or anywhere online I can buy one when there's a good sale let me know cause I need another for my girlfriend.

Sportsmans warehouse has had the thumb hole Bighorn Western recently for $379
That seems to be about the cheapest I've seen them.

[Brushbuster]

I have the bighorn with thumb hole and love it. If anyone hears of sportsmans or anywhere online I can buy one when there's a good sale let me know cause I need another for my girlfriend.

Sportsmans warehouse has had the thumb hole Bighorn Western recently for $379
That seems to be about the cheapest I've seen them.

Sportsman's is having a Labor Day sale on internet purchases & you could save $50 more. (Sale ends 9/7). (You'll want to order the western model.)

http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/sportsmans/Knight-Bighorn-.50Cal-Western-Muzzleloader-Camo-Stainless/productDetail/Muzzleloaders/prod999901363162/cat100008

[Maverick]

Thanks guys I just saw you guys posted that but I did see the sale sportsmans had and picked one up!

[Brushbuster]

Congrats.  My brother & I bought Bighorns a couple months ago. He stayed with the sights on the gun & I switched over to the Williams peep with a hood on the front. We're shooting similar groups & accuracy was great right out of the box. Good luck with your new purchases.

[Westside88]

Bump for WAnoob

[WAnoob]

Bump for WAnoob

Appreciate it, think I'll delete my post now haha.