Long range shooting

[Rufenit]

I was wondering which rife and caliber you guys recommend for long range hunting deer and elk. I currently have a .257 and .300 weather by mag. The .300 is my primary gun and I'm shooting the 165gr Nossler Ballistic tip. It has a Leupold 4-12x50 with the adjustable reticle out to 750 yds. My biggest question is, how confident are you in using that dial. This last weekend I had an opportunity to shoot out to the 750 yards and a decent whitetail and I don't think I came close. I had a good solid rest and the buck was standing broadside. I'm not one to shoot unreasonable shots but I know with the right equipment, these shots are reasonable. I hunt a lot of high country where long shots will be common. Any recommendation would be nice.

[huntandjeep]

First of all have you verified the turret at longer ranges on rocks ,stumps ,paper ? Or did you just slap it on and good to go  ? With my custom 7mm and Cooper 6.5x284 they both wear Leupold Mark 4's with turrets and I can hit pie plate size rocks out to 1250 as long as I read the wind right  . The problem with turrets is there only good for one elevation and temperature  unless you have multiple turrets made ( which I do ) for the different areas you hunt.

[carpsniperg2]

You really have to spend time and prove the dials. Even with them proven the biggest factor is not drop that is easy with a dial. It's the wind corrections that play the biggest factor at the expended distance. As far as trusting the dial if the loads are uniform and proven the dial can be trusted to account for the drop. The wind guess and drift take a lot of time to learn well and some tools can really help at those extended ranges.

[Biggerhammer]

It's not voodoo witch doctor magic. It's all simple math, most make it sound more complicated than it is. A accurate load is easy to drive at distance.

[Rufenit]

Thanks for the advice. I will say I am guilty of not testing it out that far and I do intend on doing that. I do know that elevation can really affect the drop and I plan on ordering multiple turrets. That brings me to another question. If I plan on hunting mule deer at 9000 ft, I would assume that it needs to be sited in at the higher elevation or am I not understanding how they work. I'm assuming that if I site in a turret that Is zero at 200yrds at 2000 ft elevation I can't just slap on the 9000 ft elevation turret and assume it will work at the high elevation. Or can I?

Thanks

[Griiz]

My first question would be can you consistently shoot 3-5 shot dime size groups at 100 yds? If the answer is no, than no equipment will make you hit your target consistently at that distance. I refuse to shoot past any distances I haven't practiced at. It isn't fair to the animal. I don't care to shoot past 300yds if the rifle won't shoot under 1 inch groups at 100 yds.

[huntandjeep]

Thanks for the advice. I will say I am guilty of not testing it out that far and I do intend on doing that. I do know that elevation can really affect the drop and I plan on ordering multiple turrets. That brings me to another question. If I plan on hunting mule deer at 9000 ft, I would assume that it needs to be sited in at the higher elevation or am I not understanding how they work. I'm assuming that if I site in a turret that Is zero at 200yrds at 2000 ft elevation I can't just slap on the 9000 ft elevation turret and assume it will work at the high elevation. Or can I?

Thanks

You have to re zero at every elevation.

[mountainman]

Best thing is to get our and play at those distances and elevations. Learn the minute differences and apply them. Its alot of fun too!

[257wbymagkiller]

I use my 257 WBY with a vortex viper pst 6x24 out to a 1000, very accurate just have to put the time in with the gun 

[Stein]

I will be perfectly honest.

If you have to ask whether 750 yards is reasonable, it isn't.  Even if you don't, it isn't reasonable in my book.  If you are 1 moa field, you are already off 8 inches if everything is perfect, and nothing ever is.  For me, 0.5 moa bench is at least 1 moa field.

Look at a windage table, plug in the numbers and what it says to me is that it would be a Hail Mary.  I don't shoot unless I am 90% it will be a one shot clean kill.

For 750 yards, I couldn't bet I would be better than 8 inches vertical and 12-15 or more horizontal before I even look at elevation or temp.  Again, that is best case.

[b23]

Do you own a good quality range finder?  I think you should spend your money on one of those before anything else if you want any amount of consistency.

[rudysts]

Your equipment is most important for long range hunting.

1 Highly accurate rifle capable of sub half moa accuracy, imo only possible with hand loads and a custom barrel, a quality scope that you can dial up your elevation at any altitude and conditions

2 High quality range finder Leica 1600B or a G7 BR2

3 A good ballistic calculator ( the G7 BR2 has a really good one built in to it ) Strelok pro for your phone works really well it has trajectory validation option which is very important.

4 Kestrel weather meter so you can input wind, temp, altitude and pressure. (if not using a G7 BR2)

And lots of time at the range doing load development and practicing at different distances and shooting positions.

[skeeter 20i]

It's not voodoo witch doctor magic. It's all simple math, most make it sound more complicated than it is. A accurate load is easy to drive at distance.

   and practice, practice, practice

[high country]

To play @ ranges beyond 500 ish, it pays to invest in a slick bullet. The benefits of a high bc pay off in spades once the tof gets up there. You can be good at math still unskilled on wind......it's the constant variable that can't be calculated on paper.

[Bill W]

Whatever happened to the old days when the shooter had to accurately "eyeball" the distance and estimate the amount of hold over?    I think we're getting too "techie".

[lucky7]

  Carlos made his shots with a 8x unertl

[Bob33]

Whatever happened to the old days when the shooter had to accurately "eyeball" the distance and estimate the amount of hold over?    I think we're getting too "techie".

I suspect that the number of shooters who can consistently eyeball the difference between 725 and 750 yards under various field conditions is slim and none.

[boneaddict]

Ethically, I'd think practice would be in order before putting one down range on a live animal at that range.
I think either one of those calibers would be fine if you knew what you were doing. 

[Bill W]

Whatever happened to the old days when the shooter had to accurately "eyeball" the distance and estimate the amount of hold over?    I think we're getting too "techie".

I suspect that the number of shooters who can consistently eyeball the difference between 725 and 750 yards under various field conditions is slim and none.

Then we know the answer for whether that shot should be taken.   I would suspect a bullet might drop 4-5 inches in that 25 yard increment.

Also a lot of trigger time should be considered even with the modern equipment.  Shouldering the rifle, how the hand is positioned and trigger pulled needs to be very consistent.  Then... there's the wind, sunshine/shade and heat that enters in.

I did a little benchrest shooting and it's amazing how the smallest details need to be analyzed.    I used to use 7 windflags to shoot to 200 or 300 yards, depending on whether I was shooting cast bullet or jacketed rounds.   Jacketed rounds were easy compared to sending cast bullet rounds downrange.   

I've heard it said there are no perfect cast bullets as all have a casting void of some sort.

[WoodlandShooter]

No need to get too techie on this.

here is the MINIMUM of what you need.

a good scope with good repeatable turrets.

Learn to use your reticle to establish ranges in the field.

Zero at 100 yards. There is no need to re-zero at any other conditions, nor is there a need to have a funky 200 or 300 yard zero as everything else is handled by your established dope.

Gather dope to the ranges and environmental conditions you feel are within your acceptable accuracy level. This will get you the neede trigger time to know your rifle and it's(your) capabilities.

Learn to read the wind.

[birddogdad]

if you aren't burning ammo at those ranges all year, frankly , you have no business with a "hail mary" during any hunting situation! use your gun to that range you are proficient and comfortable at (meaning you can hit target 10 for 10.. within.. and practice to reach further goals.. those distances are made to look ez on the tv but in reality its quite complex.

[Bob33]

Whatever happened to the old days when the shooter had to accurately "eyeball" the distance and estimate the amount of hold over?    I think we're getting too "techie".

I suspect that the number of shooters who can consistently eyeball the difference between 725 and 750 yards under various field conditions is slim and none.

Then we know the answer for whether that shot should be taken.   I would suspect a bullet might drop 4-5 inches in that 25 yard increment.

Probably close to 8" to 10" with many calibers. My point was not that shots should not be taken because of distance estimation, only that it's humanly impossible to accurately estimate at those types of distances without some technology. Even with laser rangefinders it can be a challenge to range off the desired object to get a precise distance.

[WoodlandShooter]

with my current load, it is exactly 10 inches of difference between 700 and 725 yards. and that is a Bullet with a 0.582 G1 BC and an initial MV of 2960.

2000 feet in elevation @ 60F, 29.92 on the BARO.

[Bill W]

with my current load, it is exactly 10 inches of difference between 700 and 725 yards. and that is a Bullet with a 0.582 G1 BC and an initial MV of 2960.

2000 feet in elevation @ 60F, 29.92 on the BARO.

What is your zero range?   I was basing my SWAG off of a 300 yard zero. 

[jackmaster]

I don't know Jack diddly about long distance shooting, but I DO know that if you cant breathe right and squeeze the trigger right, I done care what kind of equipment your shooting or how much your bullets cost, you *censored* gonna hit squat at a long distance or even be good and consistent at shorter distances, breathing and trigger squeeze is the absolute most important, and you don't hold your breath when your shooting either. You should also learn to shoot both eyes open..

[Yondering]

if you aren't burning ammo at those ranges all year, frankly , you have no business with a "hail mary" during any hunting situation! use your gun to that range you are proficient and comfortable at (meaning you can hit target 10 for 10.. within.. and practice to reach further goals.. those distances are made to look ez on the tv but in reality its quite complex.

This. Along with that, if you fired a shot and missed the whole animal, not just the small vital zone you hoped to hit, you proved that you have no business shooting game at that range, until you practice a lot more. IMO that's true whether it was 750 yards or 75 yards.

[WoodlandShooter]

with my current load, it is exactly 10 inches of difference between 700 and 725 yards. and that is a Bullet with a 0.582 G1 BC and an initial MV of 2960.

2000 feet in elevation @ 60F, 29.92 on the BARO.

What is your zero range?   I was basing my SWAG off of a 300 yard zero.

I am zero'd at 100 yards.

700 yards is 4.1 mils, 725 yards is 4.4 mils.

Interesting thing about 700 yards. After than I need to really know my environmentals. under 700 yards, I dont need to know much other than wind and range.

[WoodlandShooter]

I don't know Jack diddly about long distance shooting, but I DO know that if you cant breathe right and squeeze the trigger right, I done care what kind of equipment your shooting or how much your bullets cost, you *censored* gonna hit squat at a long distance or even be good and consistent at shorter distances, breathing and trigger squeeze is the absolute most important, and you don't hold your breath when your shooting either. You should also learn to shoot both eyes open..

yeah, pill the trigger on the exhaled pause.

it may suit you to shoot with both eyes open, but it is sometimes unrealistic especially when shooting with the sun in front of you....

[b23]

I think "long range shooting" means a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

There are the "techie" long range shooters that make first round cold bore hits and there are the long range shooters that aren't as concerned with all the tech stuff and hope to get close, see their impacts, and try and walk their shots on target. 

I've done it both ways and I'll take the "techie" approach every time.  You just have to decide which one you want to be.

[rbros]

I think "long range shooting" means a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

There are the "techie" long range shooters that make first round cold bore hits and there are the long range shooters that aren't as concerned with all the tech stuff and hope to get close, see their impacts, and try and walk their shots on target. 

I've done it both ways and I'll take the "techie" approach every time.  You just have to decide which one you want to be.

Well said. 

[freezerfull]

Techie results in better shooting and ethical kills. I have only got into shooting at extended ranges in the last 6 months. I will say that turrets matched to your load are pretty much worthless if you have temperature fluctuations, elevation changes, angle of shot(up or down hill) or wind. I run moa turrets and dial my minutes based off ballistic programs in the field(or cheat sheets tailored to the conditions I'll be in). Also the cds dial I had leupold make wasn't even close to hitting a pie plate at 500 yards(almost a minute below it)even though I gave them all the data for my chronographed handloads. So went to moa dials and ballistic programs and a notebook. However you must do the shooting first and verify you poi at these ranges and then modify your data within your program before hunting. BC's are often falsely inflated by the manufacture, and a chronograph is a must. I would look into a good ballistic program, work up a good load with a high bc bullet, then hit hills and find places to shoot out to the max range u are going to be hunting. Put all that data back into the program through a targets list and find the true bc of the bullet you are shooting. It's really all relatively simple, thanks to technology.

[yorketransport]

It's not voodoo witch doctor magic. It's all simple math, most make it sound more complicated than it is. A accurate load is easy to drive at distance.

But the guys on Long Range Hunting said that I need a $5K rifle built by a big name smith with the bare minimum of a NF ATACR scope, it has to be chambered in either 7 LRM or 338 Edge, I need a G7 range finder, the Applied Ballistics app, a Labradar to chronograph my loads, and only Berger bullets are capable of making it past 500 yards!

I have guns that I've slapped together in my garage for less than $500 (including the scope) that are capable of hitting stuff at 1000 yards just as consistently as some of my insanely overpriced custom guns. If a gun can hold .75 MOA then the equipment is more than capable of making hits on game at 750 yards. The rest is up to the shooter.

The secret to shooting long range is simply good information and good practice. 750 yards is a long shot on a critter but it really isn't a long shot. In this case it doesn't sound like your equipment is what held you back. You just don't have the skills yet to make a shot like that. Just practice more and be better prepared next time.

Andrew

[high country]

......and know when to say when.

Many of us can bust milk jugs at unbelievable ranges, but not EVERY DAY. Some days the conditions limit your shots. Light angle, wind, back drop, midrange interference from trees......and not personally being able to settle in.

[WoodlandShooter]

......and know when to say when.

Many of us can bust milk jugs at unbelievable ranges, but not EVERY DAY. Some days the conditions limit your shots. Light angle, wind, back drop, midrange interference from trees......and not personally being able to settle in.

INDEED!! Just yesterday I was shooting at targets. Range to the 12" square plate was 714 yards...20% hits. I sucked!!!

Tried a 66% ISPC at 943 yards...made 1 of 10...I really sucked.


The wind was back and forth right and left...5 to 10 MPH...very unpredictable.

[Bill W]

Wind was the toughest part of cast bullet shooting I had.  I was in the 2006 nationals and there was a 20-25 mph side wind for the 200 yard targets.  I made the mistake of building the wind correction into the scope settings.  What I didn't plan on was the wind shifting 180 degrees.  I had enough of a correction that it blew my bullet clean off the target.  I was concerned it would cause me to blow a bullet into a score target and getting a zero for that target.