3-1/2” + bad shoulder

[EWUeagles]

Plenty of YouTube videos and articles debunking the virtually non-existent advantage you are claiming.

3.5" shells drop off after 50 yards...at the same rate as a 3".

From 20-40 yds, a few extra pellets don't make a difference compared to selecting the right choke, shot size, and accurate shooting.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2011/4/18/3-12-inch-turkey-loads-worth-the-recoil/

Every gun/shell combo I have patterned has generated similar results to the authors, waterfowl and turkey loads.

Given the new tungsten and bismuth shot materials available, the already weak argument for 3.5" shells has become laughable.

Why on Earth do people shoot 3 and 1/2 inch shells? Ballistically, a 3 inch shell out of a 12 gauge with a good forcing cone will do the same exact thing and burn way less powder and kick a whole lot less.

No it will not do the exact same thing. A 3.5 inch shell has more pellets which improves the pattern at longer ranges.

@EWUeagles Unfortunately I didn't use a 3.5 on the turkey I got last week. Had a problem with my 3.5 gun so I took the 3" semi and nailed a turkey a 15 yards. Was hoping to get a 50 or 60 yard shot for you 

Hopefully I can go again this season.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

The article you cite shows the 3.5 did better at 40 and 50 yards and does not even identify what choke the author used. Chokes obviously make a huge difference in range and patterns. The article is germane to only one gun with an unidentified choke and thus qualifies as junk science and is worthless in proving your opinion.

This should really be two conversations, one for waterfowl and one for turkeys. Turkeys can be shot a farther range than waterfowl because of the use of TSS and lead shot and for the simple fact most shots are of a stationary target.

For Turkeys I couldn't find any data about efficiency of kill based on range. Can a gun pattern out to 60 yards? Yeah probably but can a hunter hit that 5 out or 8 times? Probably not. Again these are assumptions and I couldn't find any data to back this. I'm also excited for all the BA guys that want to talk about how amazing of a shot they are haha.

For waterfowl it is proven that as range increases your efficiency of cleaning killing the animal decreases. This is never about what a gun and ammo can do it's what can a hunter do. There's plenty of data out there that supports the theory of don't shoot 3.5 inch shells to extend your range instead decrease the distance. Can you shoot a duck at 60, 70 or 80 yards? Sure a magical bb hits every now and again but how many animals do you wound before that one hits? How many have sailed that aren't recovered?

Does 3.5 shell give you a better killing efficiency? Yep I stated that above it's around 10% but decreasing you're range to 20 or 30 yards will improve you're efficiency even more.

[ian_padron]

Plenty of YouTube videos and articles debunking the virtually non-existent advantage you are claiming.

3.5" shells drop off after 50 yards...at the same rate as a 3".

From 20-40 yds, a few extra pellets don't make a difference compared to selecting the right choke, shot size, and accurate shooting.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2011/4/18/3-12-inch-turkey-loads-worth-the-recoil/

Every gun/shell combo I have patterned has generated similar results to the authors, waterfowl and turkey loads.

Given the new tungsten and bismuth shot materials available, the already weak argument for 3.5" shells has become laughable.

Why on Earth do people shoot 3 and 1/2 inch shells? Ballistically, a 3 inch shell out of a 12 gauge with a good forcing cone will do the same exact thing and burn way less powder and kick a whole lot less.

No it will not do the exact same thing. A 3.5 inch shell has more pellets which improves the pattern at longer ranges.

@EWUeagles Unfortunately I didn't use a 3.5 on the turkey I got last week. Had a problem with my 3.5 gun so I took the 3" semi and nailed a turkey a 15 yards. Was hoping to get a 50 or 60 yard shot for you 

Hopefully I can go again this season.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

The article you cite shows the 3.5 did better at 40 and 50 yards and does not even identify what choke the author used. Chokes obviously make a huge difference in range and patterns. The article is germane to only one gun with an unidentified choke and thus qualifies as junk science and is worthless in proving your opinion.

I posted 1 article.

Feel free to dig around and watch the exact thing I'm talking about happen on YouTube as well.

I find it so hilarious when guys cling to their belief that 3.5 inch shells are so superior. The right choke and shell combo plus a shooter who knows what they are doing is 99% of the equation.

If you want to pay 50% more per shell, deal with the excessive recoil, all for a occasionally marginal and sometimes negative ballistic advantage...knock yourself out!


Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

[full choke]

Plenty of YouTube videos and articles debunking the virtually non-existent advantage you are claiming.

3.5" shells drop off after 50 yards...at the same rate as a 3".

From 20-40 yds, a few extra pellets don't make a difference compared to selecting the right choke, shot size, and accurate shooting.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2011/4/18/3-12-inch-turkey-loads-worth-the-recoil/

Every gun/shell combo I have patterned has generated similar results to the authors, waterfowl and turkey loads.

Given the new tungsten and bismuth shot materials available, the already weak argument for 3.5" shells has become laughable.

Why on Earth do people shoot 3 and 1/2 inch shells? Ballistically, a 3 inch shell out of a 12 gauge with a good forcing cone will do the same exact thing and burn way less powder and kick a whole lot less.

No it will not do the exact same thing. A 3.5 inch shell has more pellets which improves the pattern at longer ranges.

@EWUeagles Unfortunately I didn't use a 3.5 on the turkey I got last week. Had a problem with my 3.5 gun so I took the 3" semi and nailed a turkey a 15 yards. Was hoping to get a 50 or 60 yard shot for you 

Hopefully I can go again this season.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

The article you cite shows the 3.5 did better at 40 and 50 yards and does not even identify what choke the author used. Chokes obviously make a huge difference in range and patterns. The article is germane to only one gun with an unidentified choke and thus qualifies as junk science and is worthless in proving your opinion.

I posted 1 article.

Feel free to dig around and watch the exact thing I'm talking about happen on YouTube as well.

I find it so hilarious when guys cling to their belief that 3.5 inch shells are so superior. The right choke and shell combo plus a shooter who knows what they are doing is 99% of the equation.

If you want to pay 50% more per shell, deal with the excessive recoil, all for a occasionally marginal and sometimes negative ballistic advantage...knock yourself out!


Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

Hehe. No pun intended...

I hate 3.5 shells.

[ian_padron]

The whole 3 vs 3.5 debate reminds me of guys who buy a 300 Remington Ultra Magnum and then tell the guys with a .30-06 that they don't have enough firepower to kill a deer.

Entertaining for sure.

The OP is going to have a banged-up shoulder so I recommend a more logical choice... and all the 3.5 guys get butthurt LOL I love the internet

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[konradcountry]

The whole 3 vs 3.5 debate reminds me of guys who buy a 300 Remington Ultra Magnum and then tell the guys with a .30-06 that they don't have enough firepower to kill a deer.

Entertaining for sure.

The OP is going to have a banged-up shoulder so I recommend a more logical choice... and all the 3.5 guys get butthurt LOL I love the internet

The whole 3 vs 3.5 debate reminds me of guys that don't understand probability. You can explain that the increase in pellets will increase the chance of an instant kill but they seem to think it is all marketing.

Entertaining for sure.

There are valid reasons to use 3 and there are valid reasons to use 3.5. It often depends on the situation.

[konradcountry]

For Turkeys I couldn't find any data about efficiency of kill based on range. Can a gun pattern out to 60 yards? Yeah probably but can a hunter hit that 5 out or 8 times? Probably not. Again these are assumptions and I couldn't find any data to back this. I'm also excited for all the BA guys that want to talk about how amazing of a shot they are haha.

I think you would be surprised at how consistent you can get with a modern turkey load and matching choke. If you can shoot to 40 consistently with cheap stuff then it doesn't take much more to reach out to 60. I really don't think it is a big deal. With a red dot and a 3.5 shell I would expect 8/8 at 60. That is using a standard turkey target with at least one pellet in the kill zone from standing position using premium ammo. Mossberg 535 with Carlson choke.

[greenhead_killer]

I shoot 2 3/4” #2 for ducks everywhere but on the river. They pattern the best and result in more killed ducks for me. Plus super light on the shoulder. For the big river, I’ll go up to 3” #2 because the divers are so thick skinned, few extra pellets is nice. Still easy on the shoulder. 3 1/2” just don’t pattern with my gun very well and you beat the piss out of yourself, I have a benelli nova pump I’ve been shooting for 15 years, find what patterns best and go with that. Size doesn’t matter if you can’t hit them

[EWUeagles]

For Turkeys I couldn't find any data about efficiency of kill based on range. Can a gun pattern out to 60 yards? Yeah probably but can a hunter hit that 5 out or 8 times? Probably not. Again these are assumptions and I couldn't find any data to back this. I'm also excited for all the BA guys that want to talk about how amazing of a shot they are haha.

I think you would be surprised at how consistent you can get with a modern turkey load and matching choke. If you can shoot to 40 consistently with cheap stuff then it doesn't take much more to reach out to 60. I really don't think it is a big deal. With a red dot and a 3.5 shell I would expect 8/8 at 60. That is using a standard turkey target with at least one pellet in the kill zone from standing position using premium ammo. Mossberg 535 with Carlson choke.

So you consider 1 pellet a kill shot? I for one don't count on a golden bb for a kill.

Yes I have watched all the videos of TSS shot and won't ever debate what the ammo can and can't do. It's just fact most hunters aren't as good as shot as they believe they are. There are more people out in the woods who pick their shotguns up on opening day and hit the marsh or woods than are shooting shells all summer to be ready.

I think there's places for 3.5 inch shell but to add range I don't believe is one of them. I prefer ethical kills and for turkeys that's inside 40 yards  for me, and honestly we shot 4 of our 5 birds within 15 yards this year. There's plenty of stats out there that with wing shooting more pellets doesn't mean a higher chance of a clean kill. What does add more to the chance is decreasing the range. Yes ammo companies are marketing to extended range but that's because more and more people haven't learned the art of finishing birds, wither it's turkeys or waterfowl. I prefer birds in tight and don't need to sky blast.

[kselkhunter]

This thread is still alive?

Depends on what you're shooting.   If running TSS, 2 3/4" is all you need.   If running BB or bigger steel then 3.5" has it's merit on geese to get more ounces of shot if running BB thru F size.  If another metal like heavishot or bismuth, or ducks on bigger water or closer in geese, then something in between like 3".  I switched over this year to 2 3/4" hulls.  7/8 ounce of TSS #9 for ducks, 7/8 ounce of TSS #7 for geese.  With a #6 Steel for swatter loads on cripples.  I'll still load up some #2 steel as well.

Here's some fun range and penetration numbers from KPY Ballistics (note: I borrowed this from DaveinAZ's wordpress site as he does such a nice writeup on this stuff there and in the shotgun/waterfowl forums). 1.5" penetration is assumed for ducks, and 2.25" for geese.

                                                    Penetration Range
shot              size     pellets/1oz      1.5″gel    2.25″gel
Steel             #4      190 pellets,     31.0yds    —-
Steel             #3      152 pellets,     38.8yds     —
Steel             #2      124 pellets,     46.2yds,   24.0yds
Steel             #1      102 pellets,     54.4yds,   30.8yds
Steel             #B      85 pellets,      62.8yds,    37.7yds
Steel             #BB    71 pellets,      71.5yds,    45.0yds
Steel            #BBB   61 pellets,      80.7yds,    52.7yds
Steel            #T       52 pellets,      89.8yds,    60.3yds
Steel            #TT     45 pellets,      99.2yds,    68.6yds
Steel             #F     39 pellets,       108.9yds,  76.9yds
ITX10            #4     150 pellets,     58.4yds,    34.2yds
ITX10            #2     97 pellets,      80.8yds,    52.8yds
HeviShot        #6    206 pellets,     60.7yds,    35.9yds
HeviShot        #4    125 pellets,     87.8yds,    58.7yds <<< Beats #BBB steel, over 2x more pellets
HW13            #6    190 pellets,     72.6yds,    46.0yds <<<Beats #BB steel, over 2.6x more pellets
HW13            #4    115 pellets,     103.5yds,   72.1yds <<<Beats #TT steel, over 2.5x more pellets
TSS               #9    357 pellets,     73.6yds,    46.9yds <<<Beats #BB steel, over 5x more pellets
TSS               #8    251 pellets,     95.0yds,    64.8yds <<<Beats #T steel, over 4.8x more pellets
TSS               #7   183 pellets,      117.1yds,   83.7yds <<<Beats #F steel, over 4.6x more pellets, matches #FF steel   

[erronulvin]

i have a Benelli M2 that is a 3in gun, all you have to do is find the right load and pattern your gun. This year I tried the Hevi X #6 in 3in and killed without crippling more birds then I was when I used my factory 3in Winchesters and federals. Also years ago I used to shoot 3 1/2 in most of the season and always consistently got headaches and all that was from the recoil of the gun but if you are gonna run 3 1/2s look at getting a good recoil pad to take some of the kick away