Pack animals for dummies

[Night goat]

Cant believe im considering this...

Just an idea/speculation at this point.

Curious about pack animals.

Goats are what has my curiosity the most because they seem easier to manage and cheaper to own, and I can just load em up in my truck and wouldnt need a trailer...

Lets talk about the pros and cons of goats, llamas, and a donkey. Donkey seems like the most expensive as far as feed and required space, but could ride the donkey once the destination is reached...

Ive worked around farm animals in the past and am not new to it, just never had any of my own and goats definitely seem the lowest maintenance.

Id like to be able to do week-2week long back country fly fishing trips and hiking expeditions. Or longer.

[vandeman17]

We have two horses. My advice is, unless you are going to be packing with them often, just rent or pay someone to use them when needed. The year around upkeep and cost is not fun 

[kselkhunter]

Depending on where you are, or what location you're going to, you can rent llamas for pack trips.  They can be delivered to trailhead for you, for a mileage fee.  And of course you can almost always get a drop camp for horses (assuming an outfitter is licensed for the area you want to go).

If looking to raise goats, note you'll need multiple goats per person.  Granted they're easiest of the pack animals to raise.  And they're good at clearing out unwanted brush on your property.     

I grew up on a farm, and worked many cattle ranches for years so have been exposed to most animals over the years.  I'd avoid mules/donkeys unless you plan on using them a lot.   Not to say there is anything bad, and plenty of guys on here have them.  But it's a lot of work and expense, and you need to use them enough to justify it.   Now if your land is big enough and you plan to use them a lot a few mules and horses are the best option of them all.   Just do the math on what you will do with them.

I currently backpack for hunting trips in multiple states, but am in the same boat of planning how to get my gear up the mountain as my 50s are right around the corner and I'm not sure how long I'll be able to keep up my current hunting style as I age.  Llamas are my choice at the moment if I were to raise an animal specifically for my pack hunt trips.   

[Night goat]

I'm 30 and had a shooting accident a few years back so while im good for 5-10 miles depending on terrain, my knee starts to turn to jello after a while. No pain, just not as much there as there used to be, and the girlfriend was in a bad car wreck at one point and has a hip isssue. Short trips are no issue but we are just relictant to get too far back and have to lay up an extra few days before packing back out, was thinking a critter or two to share the load with would be nice

[vandeman17]

I'm 30 and had a shooting accident a few years back so while im good for 5-10 miles depending on terrain, my knee starts to turn to jello after a while. No pain, just not as much there as there used to be, and the girlfriend was in a bad car wreck at one point and has a hip isssue. Short trips are no issue but we are just relictant to get too far back and have to lay up an extra few days before packing back out, was thinking a critter or two to share the load with would be nice

my vote is llamas

[kselkhunter]

Pack goats typically can haul 20-30lbs/goat.  Once trained they usually follow you along the trail, although the more stubborn ones may need leashing.  I'm sure others that currently pack goats will chime in with more details.

Llamas typically can haul 40-70lbs each, depending on size and maturity.  You typically halter and leash them up the trail.  The purchase price for a llama is higher than a goat, but you need less of them.  I'd suggest talking to the pack llama breeders to see if you can buy one of their pre-trained packers rather than buying a young llama and trying to train it yourself.

Both goats and llamas are good at foraging in the area of destination, but I'd still plan on packing in some food pellets.  Both are good off trail, due to their smaller sizes and split hooves.

I'd suggest contacting one of the llama rental places and try renting some first to see if you like it, there's one here in WA that is very helpful to talk to ( I forget their name but can look it up, just PM me).   And there are a few pack goat guys on here you can talk to (finding pack goat rentals is a bit harder).

[2MANY]

Horses and mules are a lifestyle choice not something you use twice a year.
If you are western and enjoy riding on a regular basis then great.
If not...............................don't.

[Lapua07]

Horses and mules are a lifestyle choice not something you use twice a year.
If you are western and enjoy riding on a regular basis then great.
If not...............................don't.

Yep ^^^^

I love mine but everyone of them I have had come at the cost of the seller thinking they would use them more then they did. I’m no cowboy and I’ve learned a lot in the last 4 years with mules. . . Along with lots of rodeos and a broken arm and ribs. This will be the first season they go in for more then the weekend. 3 weeks in the Cabinets of Montana.

[KFhunter]

Pack goats typically can haul 20-30lbs/goat.  Once trained they usually follow you along the trail, although the more stubborn ones may need leashing.  I'm sure others that currently pack goats will chime in with more details.

Llamas typically can haul 40-70lbs each, depending on size and maturity.  You typically halter and leash them up the trail.  The purchase price for a llama is higher than a goat, but you need less of them.  I'd suggest talking to the pack llama breeders to see if you can buy one of their pre-trained packers rather than buying a young llama and trying to train it yourself.

Both goats and llamas are good at foraging in the area of destination, but I'd still plan on packing in some food pellets.  Both are good off trail, due to their smaller sizes and split hooves.

I'd suggest contacting one of the llama rental places and try renting some first to see if you like it, there's one here in WA that is very helpful to talk to ( I forget their name but can look it up, just PM me).   And there are a few pack goat guys on here you can talk to (finding pack goat rentals is a bit harder).

I'm amazed people aren't coming back to camp to find dead goats, isn't this a problem or concern?

[Bofire]

I was with a friend at an Idaho packers convention. He was well known mule/horse packer. A guy came up to us and asked Bob how he's pack a Llama. Bob said "I spose I'd split it in half and put a half on each side of a good mule" LOL
Carl

[actionshooter]

https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,5784.0/all.html

Here is an old thread on packgoats… should be some good info

Some things have changed, due to concerns over wild sheep, goats are no longer aloud in some areas.  I have always worried about leaving the goats alone in camp with predators and as the number of predators increase.... so does the concern.

But all and all if they fit your style they work out great...

[Machias]

I was with a friend at an Idaho packers convention. He was well known mule/horse packer. A guy came up to us and asked Bob how he's pack a Llama. Bob said "I spose I'd split it in half and put a half on each side of a good mule" LOL
Carl

 

[pianoman9701]

Was that you, Fred? 

[KFhunter]

Old school rescue!

https://www.idahostatesman.com/outdoors/hunting/article235912417.html

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[theleo]

I was with a friend at an Idaho packers convention. He was well known mule/horse packer. A guy came up to us and asked Bob how he's pack a Llama. Bob said "I spose I'd split it in half and put a half on each side of a good mule" LOL
Carl

You're friend is a little more diplomatic than most of the packers I know. Their common answer is along the lines of "I'd just let it lie, birds have got to eat too."

For covering a ton of miles, mules can't be beat, but like others have stated it's a life style. One or two trips a year doesn't cut it, but that's also a good excuse for getting out more. With 2 riding animals and a pack mule I think you'd be pretty amazed how much country you and your girlfriend can cover.

[YellowDog]

I have taken the pack goat plunge. Started with 4 weathered kids this spring and added 4 doelings which will be the foundation of a small breeding program starting next fall with kids born spring of 2021. They are a ton of fun, great pets, but like any other animal take time and money tyyo do things right.

Check out Mark Warnke www.packgoats.com in Boise, he is one of the goat packers doing big things with pack goats.

[skagitsteel]

I just noticed this thread.  Been packing with goats for 2 years now, for my style of hunting they have worked great. I will be honest I was skeptical of them at first, I was told they can be slow, some lazy, and not always able to handle the loads that might make them worth it.  I was also unsure of how they would handle some of the places I go, I didn't think it would be possible for a pack animal to scramble over some of the obstacles and extremely steep slopes to get into some of my spots  I also heard a few success stories about the extreme things they could do.  I was blown away by what they are capable of.  A big mature alpine packer can haul as much as 70 ibs (40-60 if you are going really far or a lot of uphill), I've had my goats go as much as 21 miles with 5,000 elevation gain in a single day.  They have gone through some terrain that no mule horse or llama could make it in, I push the backcountry to the extreme and the goats have handled just about everything I have thrown at them.  That sounds 'all good' however there is a lot of work that goes into getting the right goats and getting your goats trained and in good enough shape to perform well.  If you are in areas where you don't have extreme terrain or your sticking to trails, a goat cannot do weight wise or endurance wise what a horse or mule will do on a trail.  They are basically the Super Cub of pack animals, they will go to spots no other pack animal can get to, but they can't carry as much weight.

Advantages:
-don't need to pack food even in the snow 
-go 4-5 days without water if the feed is decent
-no leash follow you everywhere
-puts game animals at ease (have had deer walk right up to me with goats around)
-not afraid of dead animals/ blood, no problem even packing out bears
-load up in the back of the truck
-not too hard to train
-very intelligent
-they have unmatched agility compared to other pack animals
-very low maintenance on the trail and while hunting.


Disadvantages:
-cant pack full loads until they are 4
-short pack life (6 yrs hard packing)
-can't carry as much weight per animal
-don't have the natural endurance of a horse or mule
-have to be really consistent with exercise/ hikes to keep them in shape (this is one of biggest make or break it parts of why goats work for some and not others)
-they will get into everything, endless curiosity (can be trained out of them with a lot of persistence, or keep them tied around camp)
-can't leave them alone tied in camp when you hunt (predators)
-very co-dependent
-They can have a brutal pecking order amongst themselves

[2MANY]

Nice pictures and glad you are experiencing success with them.

The one thing I know is if you run into Llamas on the trail........You better loosen your grip on your pack string.

Most mules don't like em and a rodeo may be soon in your future.

[skagitsteel]

Nice pictures and glad you are experiencing success with them.

The one thing I know is if you run into Llamas on the trail........You better loosen your grip on your pack string.

Most mules don't like em and a rodeo may be soon in your future.

Thanks for the tip.  The areas I go I have never run into a horse or mule.  The nice thing about the goats is they will do whatever I do, they get especially close behind me if we encounter an animal they are unsure of.  If we encounter a horse or mule we would get off the trail on the downhill side and let it pass.  The biggest threat to pack goats is dogs on the trail, fortunately the two goats at the front of my string will hold their ground and force a dog to walk around them.  Havent met a dog who was willing to challenge the horns yet. 

[2MANY]

LOL

[nwwanderer]

Might want to stay out of wolf country, would not want to see all of that gear scattered with a hair and blood spot at the end

[huntnnw]

Been 0 reported issues in wolf country. I know several guys who spend tons of time year round in ID with their goats in heavily wolf infested areas. Ours have been in wolf country . You do not leave goats at camp while hunting .

[skagitsteel]

Been 0 reported issues in wolf country. I know several guys who spend tons of time year round in ID with their goats in heavily wolf infested areas. Ours have been in wolf country . You do not leave goats at camp while hunting .

that is the truth! can't leave them!   I was told when I got into goats that a black bear was the most likely candidate to mess with the goats, I didn't believe it and I was wrong.  This past July I got stalked and charged by a mature boar out hiking with the goats in the high country.  I could not deter the bear with a warning shot and yelling and ended up emptying half the clip on my .40 xdm before he dropped at about 8 yards and rolled down the hill. 

I have hiked them through some Wa wolf country and spent probably north of 50 hours now hiking with goats at night in dense lion country with no issues.  I do think the bells on the goats while its dark are a deterrent for the cats, When I'm hiking by myself with 6 goats behind me in the dark I feel like I'm 'trolling for cats' always ready but nothing yet.  Also, no issues with them tied down next to the tent at night.