Sick or not Sick

[turkey slayer]

Last weekend my Mom and Dad neighbor and his son went out for the youth hunting on a private ranch. The youth hunter and his dad watch the birds come out of the roost and hit the ground, the hens went one way and the tom went the other way. The 2 watch the tom feed and then the Tom went behind a log and layed down. The Tom would pop his head up every 10 or so minutes then would lay back down. So the 2 decided to sneak up to the log.It took a hour and a half to get within 30 yard and he poped up his head and the youth hunter shot, dead bird. They got up to him and the tom had an 11 3/4 inch beard and his spurs were an inch and the weight on the old boy was just over 16 pounds.

So the Question is will birds get out of the roost and go back to sleep on the ground or do you guys think he was dieing of old age? The weight seems a little light to me what do you think?Was he sick or was he alright

Yelp I will PM you and tell you were this is. You will want to no.

[fishunt247]

16 pounds for a giant beard and spurs like that does seem light. I've seen birds lay down on the ground, but every time I have is has been in warmer weather, mid-day, in the shade. I think they were just trying to stay cool or something. But that bird could have been sick, who knows.

[shoot-em-dead]

 Doesn't sound sick at all. Sounds more like he was staying still to avoid being split up with the hens. He knew the hunters were there.

[turkey slayer]

The hunters were along ways from the roost, If the bird new they were there he would of ran or flew. The Tom was behind the log for more then 2  hours.

[boneaddict]

Bird behavior,,,,,    was he puddling or dusting.  I have fowl that bed all the time on the ground, especially the breeder males.  They'll lay there until some urge strikes them then they start their thing.  Seems a bit early right off the roost though. 

[runamuk]

I don't know the answer maybe Bone does....do toms help with nesting duties?  I know turkeys nest on the ground often near stumps and logs, could he have been preparing a nest site 

[turkeydancer]

Was he pecking or digging at the stop to get some tasty insects ? 

[yelp]

You never know what you are going to see in the woods...Congrats to a the kid..nice bird!

The sick or not maybe explained by the late winter, maybe the old warrior got his ass kicked during a fight,  It could be an injury from hitting a limb or hitting the ground...There could be all kinds of reasons..I wasn't there to see bird. If there were signs of illness the breast may have some atrophy or no fat on the back..This time of year turkeys are probably their thinnest.  Was there anything weird when they cleaned it or field dressed it? They just came through a very long winter.  They will start putting weight on in the next several months.  I shot a tom one year which wa sa mature bird has a 10 inch beard and weighed 12 lbs had 3/4 and 1 inch spurs...I couldn't believe the size..it looked like a jake..you never know.

[Tom Tamer]

Lot of times if it's a dominant tom they're consantly breeding fighting or just plain running after hens, it could be with this long winter and brief spring that he hasn't rebuilt his body mass from this winter? Just like a rutting buck will lose weight during the rut. Few years back a buddy and I both got birds, he shot the boss and I shot a two year old together. The boss tom was 19lbs, and my tom was 21lbs. that's what we concluded was the boss is more active then a sub??

[Phantom Gobbler]

These durn turkeys are so unpredictable!  Hard to know what this Tom was up to, but luckily his tricks are finally over.     Unfortunately (or fortunately) his genes have now been passed on to many other birds in the local area.

Beings as this was a Rio, most of us have the common sense to only hunt for Merriam's, which would never try to pull such a stunt as hiding behind a log for 2 hours!   

I know, I know its getting late and we still have 8 days to go.     

[yelp]

These durn turkeys are so unpredictable!  Hard to know what this Tom was up to, but luckily his tricks are finally over.     Unfortunately (or fortunately) his genes have now been passed on to many other birds in the local area.

Beings as this was a Rio, most of us have the common sense to only hunt for Merriam's, which would never try to pull such a stunt as hiding behind a log for 2 hours!   

I know, I know its getting late and we still have 8 days to go.     

So from your statement above it is easy to assume those of us that hunt RIO's we are more skilled, patient and dedicated than a Merriam hunter?     Of course I hunt both..so I must be just plain old crazy (no comment Wacenturian).. Hey I have played peekaboo with several Merriam Gobblers..they like to play "echo" its one of there favorite games..kinda like "Marco Polo"  instead its "Yelp Yelp....Gobble"   These damn birds will drive you crazy...I remember several years ago up in Ferry county we were trying to locate a tom..and heard a few but they were unresponsive...this happened for 3 days...Last hour of our hunt we go up a trail we hadn't hunted yet...get up the hill to a bench..caught our breath...made a series of yelps...the damn woods erupted...all we could do is sit down and here come 5 toms running.....They came with in range I said to my buddy ...first two...boom...the hunt lasted two minutes..yet we were up there three days with little to no luck..that is how it happens..Damn birds! It one turkey calling another!  LOL   

[turkey slayer]

I don't no much about the hunt, I just no what my dad told me. I just thought it was weird for a Tom to jump off the roost just after day light and go behind a log for 2+ hours. By as all of us turkey hunters no any thing can happen.

[Phantom Gobbler]

Yelp (and Slayer), You have my utmost respect (or empathy) for your continuing annual quest to try and figure out and anticipate what bizarre tricks these turkeys will pull next.   

Like you, I have gone from outings of not being able to buy a bird sighting or hear even one gobble ........ to being nearly run over by a fired up Gobbler in full charge mode!  Go Figure!! 

The debate will continue to rage on which subspecies is the most difficult to hunt.  The answer of course is ....... the subspecies you happen to be hunting at the moment!! 

One of these years I will try my luck in Lincoln County for the elusive RIO, but as you well know access is somewhat limited in this area.

[Wacenturion]

Phantom...........you said...

                     "The debate will continue to rage on which subspecies is the most difficult to hunt.  The answer of course is ....... the subspecies you happen to be hunting at the moment!!"

No debate here.....western Washington Easterns are the most difficult bird in the country, not just our state...fact.  Those eastern Washington Rio's and Merriam's are a blessings to get our sanity back after hunting the "Ghost" ..lol.   

[Intruder]

Phantom...........you said...

                     "The debate will continue to rage on which subspecies is the most difficult to hunt.  The answer of course is ....... the subspecies you happen to be hunting at the moment!!"

No debate here.....western Washington Easterns are the most difficult bird in the country, not just our state...fact.  Those eastern Washington Rio's and Merriam's are a blessings to get our sanity back after hunting the "Ghost" ..lol.   

I really wonder sometimes how much of it is truly genetic and attributable to the subspecies as opposed to general adaptation to the environment.  Granted certain species have habitat/climate preferences.  But if a Rios or Merriams happened to end up in the thick woods of the South or in W. WA and were able to survive and breed I'm guessing they'd in short order begin to take on they survivability traits that make Easterns harder to hunt.  Total speculation on my part but I wouldn't be surprised at all if their nature and habits are as much adaptation to their environment as it is something ingrained in their genes   

[Wacenturion]

Intruder....It is the adaptation that makes the subspecies....so yes I would completely agree with you.  Rios and Merriams would not however end up in the thick woods of the south or western Washington, but if they did, they too would probably adapt and take on survival traits like those of the easterns. 

If we think about it...Rio's are open county turkeys especially in native states like Texas and Kansas....more eyesight dependent than the other senses.  Merriams...open timber country..New Mexico, Arizona...and our N.E.....eyesight dependent and somewhat hearing dependent.  Easterns...the "forest turkey"....dependent on all survival senses, especially hearing more than the other two subspecies.  You know, something around every bush that wants to eat you and I can't see them. 

So I would sum it up this way....Rios are soft cause they generally only rely on eyesight.  Merriams are somewhat soft only relying on eyesight and their hearing every so often according to cover.  Easterns....tuff, can't afford to be lazy with any situation....therefore the winner in the tuff turkey to kill contest.  This study is heavily based on scientific findings.....lol.... 

[tlbradford]

I agree with what Bone said, but he may have been just feeding too.  Maybe a bunch of grubs at the log?  I have shot old birds that weighed less than some younger ones with shorter beards and spurs.  I think it is fairly common.  16 doesn't seem too out of the ordinary.  That is a huge beard.  Anything over 11" is pretty rare since they get worn down from feeding.

[Phantom Gobbler]

Now we know why some of you start on the Dryside with the Rios (Easiest to Hunt) in Lincoln County, Head North/Northeast for your Merriam's (Second Easiest to Hunt) and then spend the rest of the season searching for the Ghostly Easterns (Mythical Status like a Native Steelhead) on the Wetside?  Or did I get this order wrong?   

Don't know if I will ever get a Multi-Season Washington Slam??

P.G.

[yelp]

I guess it comes down to money and time for me..I don't have a lot of either.  Lincoln county birds can be tough..I have had them give me hard times every year..nothing is a gimme!

[Phantom Gobbler]

I guess it comes down to money and time for me..I don't have a lot of either.  Lincoln county birds can be tough..I have had them give me hard times every year..nothing is a gimme!

Yelp,    I think a lot of it boils down to T&M and also getting to know an area well.  One property that we have hunted for several years in Colville, we have yet to harvest a bird from.  We have had some close encounters......but nada so far.  This doesn't stop us from trying it every season.................... and one of these years it will produce!   

[Turkeyman]

I agree time and money. Knowing the birds and there habits in the area you are hunting in and adapting hunting styles is key. Terrain the birds live in and how they use it can make them all  tough at times. Some tom's know matter what species can be tough to harvest for allot of reason 

[JBar]

The hunters were along ways from the roost, If the bird new they were there he would of ran or flew. The Tom was behind the log for more then 2  hours.

I don't know, but when I'm in the woods and get up in the morning there's only one reason I would go sit behind a log for 2 hours and I usually come out a couple of pounds lighter

[Wacenturion]

Now we know why some of you start on the Dryside with the Rios (Easiest to Hunt) in Lincoln County, Head North/Northeast for your Merriam's (Second Easiest to Hunt) and then spend the rest of the season searching for the Ghostly Easterns (Mythical Status like a Native Steelhead) on the Wetside?  Or did I get this order wrong?   

Don't know if I will ever get a Multi-Season Washington Slam??

P.G.

Actually no...If I'm trying for a single season slam, I'll do whatever to get that Eastern out of the way first.  It's tough either way you approach it and whatever bird you start or finish with....but for me getting the eastern first makes it seem somewhat more obtainable......at least I make myself believe that..........lol.   

So with that being said, we'll see how it goes with the Rios and Merriams in that order.  Not even thinking about attempting the slam this year, but if for some reason the turkey gods bless me this spring I might be spending the last part of the season chasin after an Eastern.  That would not be ideal as they don't like to come out and play.................... in mid to late may.  
 

[Phantom Gobbler]

Slayer,  Bet you'll be looking behind every log this spring on your hunting properties!!      Good luck getting the NE Merriam's Spring Slam again this year!   

[boneaddict]

I have the perfect picture of this......but can't find it.  Its a tom peeking up over a log at me sneaking closer.