Grouse hunters better get informed

[Stein]

Did WDFW do a legit field survey and compare numbers over time or just drive out to the barrels and count the wings?

[callturner]

If they want to increase grouse numbers they should focus on better habitat creation (more logging) and shorten up the modern rifle seasons.

I don’t think they get a good idea of what is going on with those barrels at all. The vast majority of grouse shot in this state are opportunistic shots taken during the modern rifle seasons. They are camp food and I’d be surprised if even 5% are represented in those barrels.

I got a kick out of the barrel placement. The barrel was placed entering a road - area that had been closed to all hunting since the hound season was closed for big game. What a joke.

[KP-Skagit]

I think what makes me shake my head is they do not have any idea of the actual grouse population. They are seeing a trend in their small data pool and extrapolating way out from there. To a point I sympathize, how in the world would you actually do a grouse count?

Like many others here I have never seen any real variability in grouse populations. Every year they are somewhere to be found.

[Stein]

I know dusky and ruffed surveys are done by several states and obviously sage.  Oregon does surveys, harvest reports and wings. 

Some states even put the information out there in a transparent manner so everyone can see what they are doing and what the current and historical situation is.

https://www.dnr.state.mn.us/hunting/grouse/reports.html

I did see a WDFW report on blues that started with the phrase "Although populations in Washington have not been adequately monitored" followed by assumptions the numbers have been on a decline.

[Goshawk]

I think what would help more than anything is to stop spraying the clearcuts with herbicides.

   Grouse in my area are an endangered species compared to just 10 years ago. 

[Skyvalhunter]

I have been hunting grouse all my life both native and blues. I average 15-20 a year.  The population does cycle and it's been my experience that it is dependent upon the prey Coyotes, bobcats, hawks, owls,etc. Also goes both ways I am sure. When I see alot of hawks in the high country the grouse population is good. I haven't seen logging have an effect on the population. The only thing it does is create more roads so the are more apparent.

[Tracker0721]

I’m pro pushing the season back. 2 years in a row we’ve dropped young grouse the opening week and held off hunting on our own. I only see it in the Ruffs not the blues. Last year was really bad. Even our turkeys lost the chicks and had a second brood but they were still way too young come fall. We have to change our hunting based on science and fact. If a late spring kills a lot of young like we’ve had twice in a row, then they should update the season. They monitor the ocean fishing like that.

If they’re willing to have folks study owls, woodpeckers, and other endangered animals they could certainly hire bird watchers to go help get grouse numbers. I’d volunteer for spring. Give everyone a free OnX membership and have em go find drum beating and later send updates through the year of all grouse sightings. For GMU 101, I’m pro pushing the season back.

[Alan K]

I did see a WDFW report on blues that started with the phrase "Although populations in Washington have not been adequately monitored" followed by assumptions the numbers have been on a decline.

And yet they increased the bag limit from 3 to 4.  Just another example of WDFW giving us more 'opportunity ' at the expense of the wildlife.  Opportunity to reach the bottom of the toilet bowl faster than circling it isn't what sportsmen want. We want properly managed populations (predators being the most agregiously mismanaged) so that the 'opportunity' can be had without being detrimental to the sustainability of our wildlife.

[MtnMuley]

For starters, I don't believe for a second that WDFW has the slightest clue on actual grouse numbers throughout any part of the state. Basing any credible info off of the wing barrel data is laughable. Of the hundreds of grouse I've killed, I've never took the time to drop any wings in the barrel. Most times they're processed up in the mountains anyways.

Secondly, if they think pushing the season back a couple weeks is a good idea, then why did they up the limit to 4 in the first place a few years ago? In theory, it's great of a guy goes out and shoots a couple blues, passes up a couple more, shoots a ruffled, passes up another blue, then shoots a spruce to fill his daily bag limit. Face the facts, that thing isn't happening. 95% of the hunters are killing the first 4 legal birds they see. I'd bet a high wager that many fill 4 day limits with the same species as well. A lot of areas here you basically are hunting one species of grouse with the occasional chance at the others.

Predation kills big numbers of grouse as is it's very evident by the constant piles of feathers one encounters on spring/summer hikes. As skyval mentioned, usually seeing hawks is a good sign the grouse population is abundant in the area. Habitat loss here in NCW is by far the major contributing factor in our grouse populations. From the Tripod Fire in 07 to the Carlton and Tunk Complex fires in 14/15, the vast majority of habitat is gone. Even from the 07 fire, the berries and shrubbery still aren't back. This seems to be lumping grouse hunters "closer" together for the most part.

Even with the arguments I've read, I see no valid factual reason in my eyes to push the season dates back. If they're really worried, drop the limit back to 3. Can be done statewide or in certain areas. I know many of people that love camping over here in grouse country labor day weekend and that would surely be a pisser if they had that taken away from them amongst everything else that's been taken from us.

[boneaddict]

 

[hunter399]

I'll tell ya the up the limit ,or let's raise the permit numbers with some of our big game .To turn around a few years later and say population decline or we are below sustainable and all the other BS just pisses me right off right NOW!
"Time to Shorten the season" just makes me mad as old yeller right before they shot him.

Did like the idea of youth season right first two weeks,I could stand behind that.
Maybe just set the bag limit back to three and see if they don't level back out.
Hunters do love opportunity ,with some opportunities comes with consequences. I could think of more than one proposal that falls in that category. WDFW also loves to give opportunity it falls in line with greed and pocket filling.
Don't try to fix something that isn't broken.

Let's ask ourselves why.
Why did they raise the limit a few years ago
Why would we have a spring season when population is declining.
Why should our seasons get shorter after these greed filled "mistakes " happen.

Maybe they should just stay with seasons and bag limits that have worked for the past years and call it a day.

[Smokepole]

For starters, I don't believe for a second that WDFW has the slightest clue on actual grouse numbers throughout any part of the state. Basing any credible info off of the wing barrel data is laughable. Of the hundreds of grouse I've killed, I've never took the time to drop any wings in the barrel. Most times they're processed up in the mountains anyways.

Secondly, if they think pushing the season back a couple weeks is a good idea, then why did they up the limit to 4 in the first place a few years ago? In theory, it's great of a guy goes out and shoots a couple blues, passes up a couple more, shoots a ruffled, passes up another blue, then shoots a spruce to fill his daily bag limit. Face the facts, that thing isn't happening. 95% of the hunters are killing the first 4 legal birds they see. I'd bet a high wager that many fill 4 day limits with the same species as well. A lot of areas here you basically are hunting one species of grouse with the occasional chance at the others.

Predation kills big numbers of grouse as is it's very evident by the constant piles of feathers one encounters on spring/summer hikes. As skyval mentioned, usually seeing hawks is a good sign the grouse population is abundant in the area. Habitat loss here in NCW is by far the major contributing factor in our grouse populations. From the Tripod Fire in 07 to the Carlton and Tunk Complex fires in 14/15, the vast majority of habitat is gone. Even from the 07 fire, the berries and shrubbery still aren't back. This seems to be lumping grouse hunters "closer" together for the most part.

Even with the arguments I've read, I see no valid factual reason in my eyes to push the season dates back. If they're really worried, drop the limit back to 3. Can be done statewide or in certain areas. I know many of people that love camping over here in grouse country labor day weekend and that would surely be a pisser if they had that taken away from them amongst everything else that's been taken from us.

 

Mountain Muley, I've had the same observations.  Not only are the grouse confined to creek bottoms or springs, since the fires of 2015 -- the predators have figured it out, too.  Add our abnormally dry summers, and you got a real problem.  Countless number of old-growth "wolf trees" on Okanogan ridgetops have perished from drought and borer insects  -- the same Douglas firs from which I've taken limits of blue grouse. 

Most of the deer are in the bottoms right now, digging and nibbling all the twigs from the shrubbery.  In the past two years near the Tunk fire, I've witnessed only a modest increase in grouse numbers, and a slight improvement in habitat conditions.  I hope it's a trend!

[MtnMuley]

That is very true, Smokepole. I'm basically a blue hunter and I've noticed a big difference in populations closer to their mating grounds, which is generally in lower elevations than typical blue country. Seems they are more abundant in the "upper areas" of the lower elevations than before the fires. More grasshoppers and bugs in their craw than larch needles and berries obviously due to the habitat they're surviving in.

[Skyvalhunter]

 What I hope that people realize is that a limit of 4 grouse doesn't mean you can shoot 4 grouse of the same species per day. It means you can shoot 3 blues and 1 ruffled. So no more than 3 grouse of any 1 species.

[jrebel]

I've seen more grouse in the last 3-5 years as I ever had.  Not sure what the issue is?  I have been on hikes (not grouse hunting) and counted 10 to 20 grouse in a day.  This is a regular occurrence.  I will say that I have not seen as many on the roads where I would usually be able to road hunt them, though I do still see them on the roads.  I would argue that these dumb birds are smart enough to get off the roads when the traffic starts.  There are way more people driving back roads today than there were 15 years ago.  Just my observations and 2 cents.