Author Topic: Rifle bedding issue? (Read 4096 times)

timberhunter · « **on:** July 30, 2022, 08:29:13 PM »

Is this enough to cause grouping issues? It is only contacting on the sides of the pillars and you can see there is a very small spot in front of the lug that has showed up where it is touching the barrel. The rifle is a kimber Montana in .308. I have around 70 rounds through it now and cannot seem to find anything it will shoot consistently. Will often put a couple inside an inch but then one will usually land around an inch and a half or two inches at 100 yards. Shooting from a table and using a nest rest. Have tried federal premium 165 gr. trophy bonded, federal premium 150 gr. Accubonds, federal premium 165 gr. terminal ascent, nosler trophy grade 165 accubond and federal blue box 150 gr. Soft points. The blue box seem to shoot the best but not by much. They are all pretty consistent in group size. Talleys are bedded to the action, lapped, and torqued with loctite. Action screws are torqued to spec. Have checked the usual, mag well moves freely, no base screws or action screws are bottomed out although there is a shiny spot in the bottom of the action screw hole. Was about a full turn of clearance so I’m not sure where it came from. I did take a little off the screw and now have about a thread and a have of clearance when action is torqued. While I had it apart I did lighten the trigger. Will shoot some more tomorrow to see if that helps. I also have some 150 interlocks to try although I would like to find a bonded bullet it will shoot. Have had two different scopes that netted the same results.

timberhunter · « **Reply #1 on:** July 30, 2022, 08:48:45 PM »

I can’t get the other pics to load but the front pillar is contacting just like the tang is.

Magnum_Willys · « **Reply #2 on:** July 31, 2022, 07:28:07 AM »

Shortened scrw and got another 1/2 turn? Keep shortening unil you don’t get any more turn.

What are you using for a rear rest?

Can’t tell from pic but if bedded lug and barrel in front of lug touching is not an issue - many bed 1-2” in front of lug. If barrel touching before lug thats an issue.

timberhunter · « **Reply #3 on:** July 31, 2022, 09:09:13 AM »

I wasn’t very clear about the action screw. There is now about a thread and a half of clearance when it’s all together. I would get another turn and a half on the screw before it bottomed out if the stock wasn’t on it. Been using birch wood Casey nest rest. They seem pretty solid but I will take the lead sled this time. No bedding around the lug. Only points of contact are top of pillars back of lug and the one small spot in front of the lug on the stock where it’s made a small mark on the paint.

opdinkslayer · « **Reply #4 on:** July 31, 2022, 09:39:53 AM »

It’s a Kimber & the odds are against you that you will get one that shoots good

timberhunter · « **Reply #5 on:** July 31, 2022, 11:28:05 AM »

Thinking I should have bought the x bolt. It was a toss up between the two but settled on the kimber because of the controlled feed and the safety position were the same as my Ruger m77. First two shoots fired from the rifle today are close to 4 inches apart. Im now waiting on the thin barrel to cool before the third.

hogslayer · « **Reply #6 on:** July 31, 2022, 01:35:34 PM »

That’s very big for a .308. I would be looking into my scope and rings to see if that’s an issue. The bedding looks fine to me.

buckfvr · « **Reply #7 on:** July 31, 2022, 02:22:04 PM »

Dumb question but have you slid a piece of paper/dollar bill between stock and barrel all the way to the recoil lug ? Any contact can/may cause the barrel to walk one way or the other as it heats up.

timberhunter · « **Reply #8 on:** July 31, 2022, 02:49:15 PM »

It’s a brand new vx3 but will probably try another just to see.

Plenty of room between forend and barrel all the way til you get the chamber. Dollar bill doesn’t slide the last couple inches to the lug. In the top pic you can see the light colored spot just in front of the lug. It is definitely touching the barrel there. Seems to me the chamber should be making 100percent contact in the stock or none at all?

broadhead · « **Reply #9 on:** July 31, 2022, 02:54:03 PM »

Can you take a Dremel or a file or sandpaper and remove the area on the contact point? Even if it didn't work you could still restore it with something simple like JB Weld or other similar product that adheres to the stock and fills in whatever you remove later on. Just some ideas. For me, it's hard to tell what is going on with the photos but believe you

timberhunter · « **Reply #10 on:** July 31, 2022, 03:18:45 PM »

Here is a better photo. It’s making contact just in front of the lug in a very small spot and along the top edge of stock along the chamber. Hope that makes sense.

I have a dremel and could take it down a little. Wanted to hear from some other folks if they thought those contact points could cause issues. If I was convinced it was the problem I would take care of them but once I do that I’m sure I will void any warranty.

broadhead · « **Reply #11 on:** July 31, 2022, 03:24:12 PM »

Yeah I suppose that could mess up barrel harmonics. If you think it's causing the issue contact the manufacturer first if wondering about warranty

buckfvr · « **Reply #12 on:** July 31, 2022, 03:27:07 PM »

Id clean it up, also Talley does NOT recommend lapping so I hope you used a professional lapping tool with alignment bar. The mark appears off center so Id take it down.

broadhead · « **Reply #13 on:** July 31, 2022, 03:41:56 PM »

You could lay down some masking tape to the stock and attach the rifle again. See all "potential" contact points on the tape after removal if they leave marks. But tape could highlight some points that are not currently a problem as well.. Ok done with ideas here.

timberhunter · « **Reply #14 on:** July 31, 2022, 04:03:04 PM »

Used the wheeler kit that’s actually in the pic. Not sure if it’s professional, I am not! Haha. I have lapped several sets of various rings. Have done two sets of Talley light weights with bases. Both needed work to get them to 75 percent contact. Interlocks and tipped core lokts turned out 5 shot 2” groups today. I will try some of the ideas mentioned but will leave it how it is for bear season. Will also call kimber and see what they have to say.

callturner · « **Reply #15 on:** July 31, 2022, 05:01:14 PM »

A buddy had the same problem and sent it back. They said nothing wrong and sent him a target that was supposedly shot with his gun. Same problems so it went to a gun show. He bought a xbolt and never looked back.

timberhunter · « **Reply #16 on:** July 31, 2022, 06:38:32 PM »

I would hate to wait 2 or 3 months to get it back and it shoot the same. For the money it takes to buy one of these rifles no one should have to send one back.

opdinkslayer · « **Reply #17 on:** July 31, 2022, 06:46:50 PM »

Look up Kimber Roulette

Rick · « **Reply #18 on:** July 31, 2022, 06:57:07 PM »

Free recoil isn’t your friend when shooting flyweight rifles like a Montana. I generally rest my free hand on top of the scope when trying to shoot small groups with my Montana. Grabbing the fore end and pulling it down into the bag or rest accomplishes the same thing. There’s definitely a learning curve to shooting small groups with such light rifles

timberhunter · « **Reply #19 on:** July 31, 2022, 07:57:58 PM »

After scouring the web for possibilities I have ran across the kimber roulette. I’m still hopeful to get it shooting!

I have not tried resting a hand on the scope yet. I did shoot it from a lead sled today which was a little better than the nest rest. I haven’t spent much time behind a rifle quite this light. That may be contributing to it but I have dry fired some on target and don’t get much movement.

Caseknife · « **Reply #20 on:** July 31, 2022, 08:01:39 PM »

Agree totally with Rick. Any rifle under about 8 pounds you better hold onto while shooting. I just worked up loads for my buddy's Montana in .308, 130 TTSX powered by AR-Comp, three shots pretty much touching. My 8400 Montana in 300 WSM shoots great. My Howa Alpine which is not quite as light, shoots well under an inch, Howa Superlite which weighs less than your Montana also shoots very tight groups. I use a Caldwell front rest and a bag at the back, shoot three shot groups, grip the pistol grip firmly and either lay my hand over the scope or grip the fore end securely. If you shoot a light rifle like a heavy rifle and just rest the fore end and buttstock and hardly grip the rifle when the shot is fired, the gun will move before the bullet exits the barrel. My 2 cents.

JWBINX · « **Reply #21 on:** July 31, 2022, 08:14:34 PM »

Timber, if your Kimber is relatively new (under a year) let Kimber handle the accuracy issue.
Trust me, yours will not be there first!
Buckfvr is correct about lapping Tally rings, especially if there lightweight alloy. Not recommended.
I've had guys have to purchase another set of rings because of lapping.
If you want to watch a good shooting video for the right way to do it, check out
Mark Bansners shooting tips on Youtube. He really is a premium rifle builder.
Try not to do too much so that it voids your warranty with Kimber.
Good luck.
The .308 should shoot well.

timberhunter · « **Reply #22 on:** July 31, 2022, 08:31:36 PM »

I appreciate all the tips and ideas from everyone. I will try some different form while shooting next. I do have a Ruger m77 compact that Will easily shoot sub Moa groups with. I’m not sure of weight on the rifle but should be in the ball park of the Montana? The Montana was bought from Gunbroker. It was purchased a little over a year ago now. I’m not sure of the manufacture date though.

What is the idea behind not lapping the rings?

JWBINX · « **Reply #23 on:** July 31, 2022, 09:23:29 PM »

On the Lightweight alloy one piece rings-- when you lay the tube in the bottom half of ring it does not touch
the bottom of ring until you start tightening the top cap. The ring actually wraps around the tube during the tightening
process. If you start removing the slightest amount of material during lapping, the rings will not properly hold the the tube.
I have seen guys lap the rings and have the top caps tight against the bottom and the scope tube will actually spin, leading me to sell
them another set. Ca-ching Ca-ching. I have had dozens of conversations with Dave Talley and Gary Turner. They know what their doing!!
Give Kimber a call, tell them it was a gift and it does not shoot. Press the issue with them!
If you need to lap a ring, do it on a Burris or a Chinese made Vortex, not on a Talley or Leupold!

timberhunter · « **Reply #24 on:** July 31, 2022, 10:00:34 PM »

I don’t have the caps bottoming out on the lower half of the ring/base. I can see how that would be a big problem. I did have a set of Ruger stainless rings I had to file to make sure there was a gap between top half and bottom half. They were on a .338 win mag. That was slipping the scope forward in the rings when shot. They were a pain to get enough contact to hold the scope since they were stainless. As far as the talleys go it has been the very bottom of the lower half that made contact last which leads me to believe they needed it. I am not a gunsmith thought, so I may be missing something. I do like playing with rifles though.

MeatMissile · « **Reply #25 on:** August 01, 2022, 04:59:03 PM »

If you decide to sell, let me know!

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Author Topic: Rifle bedding issue? (Read 4096 times)

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