bubbles in blood

[halflife65]

So if a guy shoots an elk from 30 yds and hits it but cant find it that justifies it?? Some people that shoot alot can shoot better @ 60 yds than most can @ 30.  At 50-60 yds an arrow has plenty of velocity for a comple pass through.  I have shot deer with a rifle @ 100 yrds that were never recovered.  It hunting it happens no matter what the weapon is.  I know guys that shoot over 150 yds with muzzle loaders.  It is not ur job to tell people how far they can shoot just like it is not their job to tell u how. To parent ur kids.  I killed one at 63 yds last year double lunged it and it traveled 70 yds and piled up.  Oh and by the way that shot was a complete pass through so i believe that could answer the question.  I have been in alot of discissions on this topic and i feel yardage to shoot varies with each hunter. 

Nobody is trying to "justify" anything - especially a shorter shot.  That doesn't make any sense...People are expressing an opinion on what would constitute an ethical distance to shoot.  If you think you can shoot 60 yards, go for it, I guess.  I wouldn't do that myself, though.

People are talking about percentages of a successful shot.  You've stated that you are able to shoot successfully at 63 yards, but the chance of something bad happening (you pull the shot which has a large effect at that range, the animal moves, etc.) is a lot greater than a shot at 23 yards.  It's all about your tolerance for a risky shot.  I have a high tolerance for longer/more difficult shots at 3d targets but a very low tolerance for risk with an animal...it has to do with the consequences of missing the shot (I break or lose an arrow at a 3d target or I wound an animal - obvious difference).  I also have a high respect for the animals that I hunt (in NO WAY, am I implying that you don't - just making the point about how I think of the subject) and really don't want to wound and/or lose one.

[jrebel]

Just think about what everyone is saying.  At 300 fps (for ease of math) an arrow will be at it's destination is 1/3 second at 33 yards, and 2/3 second at 66 yards and so on. . . . .  I don't believe that 1/3 of a second is going to make a difference in an animals reaction time at 66 yards.  Especially if the animal is unaware of your presence and is relaxed in it's normal environment.  I do however agree that wind, human error, obstacle and other unforseen factors will make a shooter more inconsistant at longer ranges than at shorter distances.  Again if the situation is right and the shot presents itself 50-60 yards is very deadly for people who practice. 

The arguement that has been made comparing practice targets at long range live targets at long range is faulty.  Practice targets don't move at short or long ranges 10, 20,. . . . 70, 80.   If an animal is alerted to you at 10 yards it could still jump your string.  You should not shoot at an animal that is ready to flea at any distance IMO. 

[bucklucky]

Sounds more like just air bubbles in the blood from the shoulder working back and forth. Doesnt sound like it was the frawthy pinkish red blood of a lung shot.

My max on an elk is 50 but I took a shot I thought my wife ranged at 51 but it was 54, I miss heard her. I wouldnt go much over 50 though. Thats a long shot for an elk . That being said , mine was a perfect heart shot so He went 30-40 yards and died and was not in a fleeing state. He was looking for the cow I was pretending to be 

[Big10gauge]

I've seen bubbles in muscle hits before, but there's a definite difference in the color and "froth" of a lung hit.

[jackelope]

jrebel...this is another debate that could go on for days...but here's part of a post from a different thread that i thought i would use as an example of what i'm talking about.

He started to run but I called to him and he stopped long enough for me to shoot...  I released while he was nearly broadside (now at nearly 70 yards ) as I released he spun and stepped and I basically hit him perfectly in the back center of his ham

[NW-GSP]

did you guys go back again and look for it. I wish I was able to use my german shorthair to blood track

[coachcw]

ho really knows , did he see where the arrows where? broadside should get both lungs . I like that he ttried to get arrow two in , I always try to follow yp with another one . As far as shot distance I wont hesitate at 60 yards If he's pulling any poundage and shooting any arrow weight he'll blow right trough an elk at sixty yards. I've seen bad shots at twenty yards to. I love the rifle guy who shoots across a canyon and assumed that he missed and never followed up . I'll give you kuddos if you worked hard on recovering the animal , some times bad stuff happens part of hunting.

[beav1980]

I completely agree that there are many things that can go wrong.  It us up to each of us to have good judgement on the shot.  If i have a bull at 60 and a heavy cross wind i would never shoot conditions are critical.  An arrow has plenty of velocity at 60 yds it will easily get enough penetration.  Ya i love the guys that shoot a rifle a long ways and never look to see if they hit it.  The last yr i rifle hunted i shot at a buck at 469 yds i was sure i had missed cause he was still walking with does into the timber.  I hiked acrossed a hell hole to make sure i hadnt hit him and sure enough i had hit him and eventually harvested him.  I like the idea that he put two arrows in it.  Lets face it not all animals are recovered no matter what the weapon is i have not recovered animals that i have hit with a rifle.  It is hunting as long as we repect each other the creatures we hunt and the land is what means the most

[ecnclan]

Lets face it not all animals are recovered no matter what the weapon is i have not recovered animals that i have hit with a rifle.  It is hunting as long as we repect each other the creatures we hunt and the land is what means the most

[SHANE(WA)]

LUNG DOES NOT MEAN DEAD! if one is hit, that bull could be alive right now. Any animal has the ability to survive a colapsed lung!!  Now both are hit, its dead

[Elkpiss]

Elk are the toughest animal to kill in North America hands down.. The trick is that we have learned the hard way is you have to give them things enough time to die.. I mean i dont care if you see it fall back out go have a beer and a hot dog.. get your buddies 4 hrs later minimum go look for it.. Cause if they lay down and their not dead, and you bump them up... UT OH ~~~ good luck cause they will be half way to china.. Ive seen a poor shot, but the hunter did everything right by backing out we gave it 4 and half hrs, went back found it still alive but couldnt get up from where he was laying.. moral of story he gave it 4 hrs to lay down and get stiff.. I CANT SAY IT ENOUGH ELK ARE THE TOUGHEST ANIMALS IN THE WORLD, WHEN IN DOUT BACK OUT..  4 HRS MINIMUM.. if your a bow hunter and hunt long enough we all have horror stories, and it is the worst feeling in the world to loose a animal, makes you want to go back to the magnum!!

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

targets don't move or spook or take a step or anything. they just sit there...it takes a long time for an arrow to travel 70 yards. an animal can completely screw your shot in the time it takes for that arrow to travel that distance. how much a guy practices at those yards has nothing...zero, zilch, nada...to do with how an elk or deer or bear or grouse or anything is going to move the slightest bit in that time....remember that.

 

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[whacker1]

I know that it is only a day later, but I think if you go follow your tracks and his blood from the other day that you will probably find that the bull separated from the cows somewhere along the way when he started getting more sick.  The couple times we have wounded elk they hang with the heard, until they sicken up and then they head down hill.  We have had some go up hill away from the heard, but that is because another hunter spooked him.

best of luck.  retrace your steps and see if you can't find where he peeled off from the herd.  Only advice that I can give.

[bucklucky]

Great advice Elkpiss!

Just a little tidbit of info. I shot a blacktail with my bow about 8 years ago, perfectly broadside but a little high. I ended up giving him an hour to track. There was blood everywhere and on both sides. Anyway I got him up and watched him walk accrossed the cut about 150 yards. I left him till the next morning where I got him up again  I thought he would not get up after a night  like that but he did. I ended up getting him about an hour latter. I had got 1 lung and high. I couldnt believe they could live through the night and let alone get up the next day. I know elk are toughter than that.

[beav1980]

I would have to agree elk are tough S.O.B.'s