Story WA state record James Cartwright buck; 200 3/8 Typical

[Hornseeker]

That should be fun DB... hopefully it wont increase the hunting pressure too much though... I doubt it. Unfortunately, I know several guys who have incredible collections of whiteys that you'll never get in your book... kind of a shame, but then again, hunting is a fairly private affair...if someone wants to be mondest and quiet...so be it.

I am going to check in one something for you though....

[DBHAWTHORNE]

That should be fun DB... hopefully it wont increase the hunting pressure too much though... I doubt it. Unfortunately, I know several guys who have incredible collections of whiteys that you'll never get in your book... kind of a shame, but then again, hunting is a fairly private affair...if someone wants to be mondest and quiet...so be it.

I am going to check in one something for you though....

I don't think it will have much of an impact on our hunting pressure. I think the market for such a thing would be primarily local. Of course it may attract the attention of certain individuals and bring them our way but those same individuals are more likely to run across this website than that book. In our recent history we have had a lot of interest drawn to WA anyway. Our 200 3/8 state record entered into the record books by Bass Pro was one of them...that will bring some but not many because a lot of people will ignore it since it was killed 18 years ago (that and the gap to the next biggest buck entered is nearly 20 inches). In addition to this Realtree Outdoors filmed here this year for their Monster Buck series (probably the highest selling annual monster whitetail dvd). I think the lack of people entering their trophies is what has helped keep our pressure low. On Pope & Young class bucks I have no doubt a few of our counties would rank near the top in the nation if more of us entered our deer.

An endeavor such as this is more a work of passion and never really a money maker but hopefully I can recover my expenses. I would just like to record the history before it is lost. Whitetails, while being hunted heavily aren't one of the "cherished" animals by many in this part of the country and thus their history and the whitetail hunters legacy has largely been ignored compared to other states.

I have no doubts there are some great collections/trophies out there that will never be in the spotlight. I know of a couple.

Thanks for checking up on something for me. I look forward to hearing back from you.

[Hornseeker]

I agree there are some good numbers of big bucks taken that aren't entered, but do you think the proportion not entered is any different from anywhere else? I generally feel like the proportions are probably pretty standard across the country. Therefore, take a state like Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin or Minnesota... they have a LOAD of P&Y entries, but they also have a humongous number that are not entered... I am not slighting NE WA in the least, but I really dont believe it holds a candle to some of the mid west states... Just my opinion...

I'll give my dad a call and see if he can talk to this guy...I have NO idea if the guy will be interested...

Ernie

[boneaddict]

Very interesting. In the spring I will be starting a project to research and compile the history/heritage of Washington whitetail for a book I am going to write. It sounds like it will be quite a challenge with many twists and turns. Despite where the truth in everything lies I just hope that people appreciate the magnificent whitetails from our region. I think recognizing the animal and where it is from is what it is all about. 

I've been thinking about doing the same thing with Muleys DB.   Fun project even if it doesn't work out. 

[DBHAWTHORNE]

I agree there are some good numbers of big bucks taken that aren't entered, but do you think the proportion not entered is any different from anywhere else? I generally feel like the proportions are probably pretty standard across the country. Therefore, take a state like Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin or Minnesota... they have a LOAD of P&Y entries, but they also have a humongous number that are not entered... I am not slighting NE WA in the least, but I really dont believe it holds a candle to some of the mid west states... Just my opinion...

I'll give my dad a call and see if he can talk to this guy...I have NO idea if the guy will be interested...

Ernie

I do believe we (in this region more so than just this state) enter less proportionally than the rest of the nation. There is no doubt a lot of guys in the midwest with sizable collections that haven't entered their deer. I know of a few. Whitetail hunting in most of the nation is big business. Here (comparatively) it is more of an afterthought for many people and the concern of bringing outsiders to the state by entering animals in the book is stronger than any place I have ever seen.

On the hoof, I have seen a lot of P&Y bucks in the midwest. However, I see way more bucks in the 125-150 class than is found across the midwest. I believe this region (WA, ID, MT) and specifically WA is amongst the top in the nation for bucks of that caliber. The midwest has a lot more top-end bucks than we do.

Almost every year I have shot opportunities at 10-15 P&Y class whitetail in the 125-150 range. About 10 years ago I saw 15 P&Y bucks in a field on my first hunt of the season. In 2006 I saw 6 P&Y bucks from one stand in a one week late season hunt (I was stationed out of state at the time). This year was worst ever with only 4 shot opportunities at whitetail 125-145ish the whole season. If I count up all of the P&Y class deer I see while scouting/driving/on stand/trail cam we are talking 30-60 a year. Again this year was worst ever for that (this is my first year hunting the whole season here since the hard winters); I didn't keep an accurate count at this moment but the number is right around 20-25.

This year alone I personally know of nearly 30 (I will have to count them up later) pope and young class whitetails killed in this state ranging from 125-190 inches (I am sure I only know of a fraction of the number taken). I personally had only seen 2 of these bucks before so now we are looking at 20 something additional whitetail of that size that were roaming the hills. I bet only 5-10 of them are entered in the books.

All these animals seen by one guy in only a few counties and in dense forest habitat with lots of security cover...in addition to the ones I know of taken by everyone else. I have no doubt we are a P&Y factory and our counties could easily be on par with the top counties in the nation when it comes to this size animal. I believe our B&C numbers are closer to accurate...how do they stack up? Stevens County has had 12 non-typical bucks entered over the course of history. That would tie it for 28th place with several other counties across the nation for all time non-typical entires (the top county has 35 and they drop off quickly from there). Stevens County has at least one 200 inch typical whitetail that was taken. There are only 17 200+ whitetail in B&C so the fact our habitat/genetics can produce a 200 inch typical whitetail is really saying something.

[300UltraMagShooter]

 Do you think there are more opportunities at P&Y bucks on public or private lands?

[Ray]

That thing is a monster and I read about it at the grocery store magazine stand. A lot of my friends back east don't even know we have whitetails.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

Do you think there are more opportunities at P&Y bucks on public or private lands?

I think the opportunities for P&Y class are pretty even amongst public/private. However, there is a huge advantage to hunting the public land.....your rarely limited by borders and you have access to way more land. We have some high quality public lands for trophy whitetail. If someone consistently want to find 150+ whitetail year after year you will likely have to focus on the public lands or a large amount of private land. I have permission to hunt some great private lands but they don't hold 150+ deer on an annual basis. One exception to this would be finding a smaller place with exceptionally low hunting pressure. For years I only looked for properties in no shooting (ie..bow only) areas surrounding Spokane County. I have one 15 acre piece that would consistently have traffic from 150+ whitetail...but I never connected over anything bigger than a couple 148 inch bucks. In the past 10 years the pressure has really picked up in these areas and it makes hunting those big bucks extremely difficult.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

That thing is a monster and I read about it at the grocery store magazine stand. A lot of my friends back east don't even know we have whitetails.

It is indeed a monster. It's amazing what this place can produce.

My wife had a guy from Arkansas trying to tell her that the buck she killed this year was a Mule Deer because we don't have Whitetail here. Another friend from TX sent us a pic of his 100 inch (140 class) buck and then told us there was no way my wife's buck could be a 140 class buck and was at least 180.

[bearpaw]

Do you think there are more opportunities at P&Y bucks on public or private lands?

I think the opportunities for P&Y class are pretty even amongst public/private. However, there is a huge advantage to hunting the public land.....your rarely limited by borders and you have access to way more land. We have some high quality public lands for trophy whitetail. If someone consistently want to find 150+ whitetail year after year you will likely have to focus on the public lands or a large amount of private land. I have permission to hunt some great private lands but they don't hold 150+ deer on an annual basis. One exception to this would be finding a smaller place with exceptionally low hunting pressure. For years I only looked for properties in no shooting (ie..bow only) areas surrounding Spokane County. I have one 15 acre piece that would consistently have traffic from 150+ whitetail...but I never connected over anything bigger than a couple 148 inch bucks. In the past 10 years the pressure has really picked up in these areas and it makes hunting those big bucks extremely difficult.

I think there are more big bucks on public land. We have done mostly private land hunts for years and we enjoy 90% success or better almost every year on our guided hunts. However, we don't get many top end bucks on the private because we can't afford to not hunt it for 2 or 3 years to let them get really big. Most of the private land gets hunted enough to keep many bucks from getting really big, or else they wander onto a neighboring property and get whacked there. There are very few properties bigger than 640 acres in NE WA.

While we intend to keep doing our private land hunts because of the extremely high success on nice bucks, we are expanding our public land hunting next year so we can try to get more of the top end bucks. There are huge jungles of thick cover and that's where the smart bucks hide during deer season. Many of these really big bucks on public land die of old age, bad winters, or get eaten by predators. The biggest bucks I have seen have mostly been on public land and never were taken by hunters. They simply eventually vanished, most likely due to one of the causes mentioned.

So we actually intend to ramp up our public land mountain hunting. Hope that helps to answer the question about public land hunting in NE Washington. But be warned, you will likely not see as many deer like you see on the private lands as it's much tougher hunting on the public land. 

[DBHAWTHORNE]

Do you think there are more opportunities at P&Y bucks on public or private lands?

I think the opportunities for P&Y class are pretty even amongst public/private. However, there is a huge advantage to hunting the public land.....your rarely limited by borders and you have access to way more land. We have some high quality public lands for trophy whitetail. If someone consistently want to find 150+ whitetail year after year you will likely have to focus on the public lands or a large amount of private land. I have permission to hunt some great private lands but they don't hold 150+ deer on an annual basis. One exception to this would be finding a smaller place with exceptionally low hunting pressure. For years I only looked for properties in no shooting (ie..bow only) areas surrounding Spokane County. I have one 15 acre piece that would consistently have traffic from 150+ whitetail...but I never connected over anything bigger than a couple 148 inch bucks. In the past 10 years the pressure has really picked up in these areas and it makes hunting those big bucks extremely difficult.

I think there are more big bucks on public land. We have done mostly private land hunts for years and we enjoy 90% success or better almost every year on our guided hunts. However, we don't get many top end bucks on the private because we can't afford to not hunt it for 2 or 3 years to let them get really big. Most of the private land gets hunted enough to keep many bucks from getting really big, or else they wander onto a neighboring property and get whacked there. There are very few properties bigger than 640 acres in NE WA.

While we intend to keep doing our private land hunts because of the extremely high success on nice bucks, we are expanding our public land hunting next year so we can try to get more of the top end bucks. There are huge jungles of thick cover and that's where the smart bucks hide during deer season. Many of these really big bucks on public land die of old age, bad winters, or get eaten by predators. The biggest bucks I have seen have mostly been on public land and never were taken by hunters. They simply eventually vanished, most likely due to one of the causes mentioned.

So we actually intend to ramp up our public land mountain hunting. Hope that helps to answer the question about public land hunting in NE Washington. But be warned, you will likely not see as many deer like you see on the private lands as it's much tougher hunting on the public land. 

Great stuff. I agree, for most of us the public land hunting is going to be better.. especially if you want 150+ bucks. Public land gives me a lot more freedom to move around and find those bucks....and I can get away from people/pressure.