St Helens herd. Roosevelt or Rocky Mountain?

[Swatson]

Curious to hear what people think?  Are the elk up in Packwood, Randle, Winston etc Rocky Moutain or Roosevelt?

[BIGINNER]

i was under the impression that they were roosevelt,  but 

[Rooster1981]

I met a guy elk hunting this year that helps out at the feeding station in Naches. He told me alot of the elk from Packwood migrate back and forth to the feeding station. I call every thing east of I-5 rocky mt elk

[Mike450r]

I think true roosies are the coastal elk, alot of mixing of the species the closer you get to I5.  Rockies were transplanted a long time ago into many areas west of the cascades. I go with the coastal elk being roosies, close to I5 crosses, closer to the cascades Rockies.

[trophyhunt]

I believe any elk killed on the east side of I-5 to the crest trail is a cascade elk, I could be wrong but I believe it's a semi-new classification.

[jackelope]

I believe any elk killed on the east side of I-5 to the crest trail is a cascade elk, I could be wrong but I believe it's a semi-new classification.

B/C boundary descriptions:

Roosevelt’s elk are acceptable from Del Norte, Humboldt and Trinity Counties, California, as well as that portion of Siskiyou County west of I-5 in northern California; from west of Highway I-5 in Oregon and Washington; from Vancouver Island, B.C.; and from Afognak and Raspberry Islands of Alaska. The Alaskan animals are the result of a successful transplant from the Olympic Peninsula of Washington. To date no trophies from Alaska have been entered that reach the current all-time records book minimum score of 290. Most of the entered trophies to date have come from coastal Oregon and Washington, with a smaller number from Vancouver Island.

Pretty sure the Washington/Oregon big game records book considers them Cascade Roosevelts but B/C doesn't. To B/C they are Rocky's.

[bearpaw]

I'm pretty sure roosies have to come from west of I-5...

[Swatson]

I wrote this because its always been a debate.  I finally called an area Biologist with WDFW and he told me that technically all the elk on the westside are classified as Roosevelt.  He said obviously some of these elk have been bread with the Yakima Herd which is classified as Rocky Mountain elk.  I just find it hard to believe and call some of the back scrathers that weve seen over the years up in the high country a Roosevelt?  As far as Cascade elk or Olympic elk, he told me that some people may use those terms but there are only two classifications in Washington, Roosies and Rocky Mountain.  Curious to see how they go in the record books too?

[bearpaw]

Yep, B&C recognizes only two species in Washington.

[Practical Approach]

I believe most of the elk herds have been genetically mapped quite a while back.  There was a sampling effort to document the different herds genetics in the early 2000's.  The Mt. Saint Helens Herd is a mix of both Roosevelt and Rocky Mountain.  However, their genetic makeup is weighted more heavily to the Rocky Mtn side.  The only true Roosevelt elk were west of I5 most east I5 elk sandwiched between the cascades are mixed genetics.  The further east you go from the cascades the more predominately Rocky mountain your genetics get.  There is some overlap with elk that travel fromthe eastside to the westside of the cascades.

[PolarBear]

 
I have arrowed several bulls is the Randle and St. Helens areas that when scored were considered as Cascade Roosevelts.  IMO, you have to go a little farther West to get into real Roosies.  I know that a lot of elk in the St. Helens were transplanted but I am not sure from where.

[Annette]

I'm pretty sure roosies have to come from west of I-5...

Bear Paw is the winner!
Cascade Elk was invented to sell new books.

[steen]

Pure strain of Rosies are in the Olympics.  The ones in the Cascades are not a pure strain.  Rockies were brought in in some point.

[bobcat]

"Cascade" elk is not a species of elk, it's just a classification for the state record book.

I think there's some relevant information in this document:   http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/pub.php?id=00771

[bucklucky]

St Helens Elk are Bench legs .......  Rocky, Roosie cross

[frostman]

A few years back they were issuing cow permits in Mashel unit and we had permission form an old timer spent his entire 80 plus years in the Ashford Valley. According to him ALL of the elk in the cascades were brought in by rail car from the rockies to help facilitate land clearing for cattle grazing. Obviously in all the newly logged off areas these rocky mountain transplants thrived. No question that rosies and rockies mix, but there is also a school of thought that says elk are elk and just adapt to their surroundings. We've killed bulls in the cascades that some have characteristics of rosies and some rocky mountain elk.
The *censored*ty part is that some tribes have been coming into these valleys claiming treaty rights and killing elk. When those treaties were signed there were not elk in those valleys, just blacktail, bear and cougar.

[elksnout]

They are....hard to find.   

[JackOfAllTrades]

When those treaties were signed there were not elk in those valleys, just blacktail, bear and cougar.

Yeah... Funny that the Nooksack herd didn't exist before the Nooksack tribe did, yet they've been hunting them under treaty for years.

-Steve

[Bob33]

Boone & Crockett considers I-5 the delineation.  Any elk killed east of I-5 will not be considered a Roosevelt.

[Swatson]

Thats interesting Bob33.  I hunt on my father in laws property during late season down in the Rochester/Tenino area and those elk in my opinion are definitley Rosies!  And thats on the Eastside of I-5.  I guess they gotta draw a line somewhere though!

[bearpaw]

Thats interesting Bob33.  I hunt on my father in laws property during late season down in the Rochester/Tenino area and those elk in my opinion are definitley Rosies!  And thats on the Eastside of I-5.  I guess they gotta draw a line somewhere though!

I agree, there must be a clear line somewhere to guide in which category entries go, I have also been told that because of hybridization, elk east of I-5 are classified as RM elk. Who can say that there isn't some hybridization in some areas west of I-5, but I-5 is simply where they have chosen to draw the line.

[bucklucky]

30% of the elk in the Blues have Roosevelt blood , just sayin. That came from the mouth of Pat Fowler.

[Todd_ID]

30% of the elk in the Blues have Roosevelt blood , just sayin. That came from the mouth of Pat Fowler.

How'd he get a sample of the last one to leave on it's way to Yakima?  There're none left to test genetics on now. 

What would be very cool is if they'd introduce a herd from the Olympics into the Blues since there would be no cross breeding since there're no elk left now.  That way us eastsiders could hunt Roosevelts in the Blues and Rocky Mtns in the Collockum.

[Bob33]

Thats interesting Bob33.  I hunt on my father in laws property during late season down in the Rochester/Tenino area and those elk in my opinion are definitley Rosies!  And thats on the Eastside of I-5.  I guess they gotta draw a line somewhere though!

I agree, there must be a clear line somewhere to guide in which category entries go, I have also been told that because of hybridization, elk east of I-5 are classified as RM elk. Who can say that there isn't some hybridization in some areas west of I-5, but I-5 is simply where they have chosen to draw the line.

That's it.  Organizations like Boone & Crockett can't take blood samples of every submission, so they draw an arbitrary line.  It's no different that WDFW defining the Pacific crest as the dividing line for blacktail and mule deer.  Is every deer west of the crest a blacktail, and ten feet away on the east side they're all mule deer?  Of course not.

[RClare1223]

Rocky mountain elk=tastes great!! Rossevelt elk=tastes great!!mmmmm me see no difference.haha

[AKBowman]

Rocky mountain elk=tastes great!! Rossevelt elk=tastes great!!mmmmm me see no difference.haha

Me either!                                     ...except Roosies are better   

[400out]

St Helens Elk are Bench legs .......  Rocky, Roosie cross