FFL gun transfer question

[aer212]

Here is another story. In January I went to South Dakota to buy my brother's pickup. My brother's price on it was $1000 but since I traded him some parts, the cash that traded hands was $640. The pickup is a 1992 dodge w250 diesel that my brother drove until the tranny gave out then he parked it in the weeds and bought another pickup. The pickup is a beater, rocker panels rusted out, driver side door is shot, fenders rusted, paint gone, no box and like I said, the tranny was bad. So I put a new tranny in it, made a plywood box and drove it home. When I went to register it the lady says, " so you paid $640?" I said yes. She says well the state values it at $5000 so you have to pay taxes on $5000. I said no I paid $640 so thats what I'm paying taxes on, if the state values it at $5000, I will sell it to them. She says is there anything wrong with it? I said where do you want me to start, you can look out the window and see whats wrong with it. She handed me a paper and said write down whats wrong with it even if you dont intend to fix the problems and have the seller sign it. I started writing down the problems and ran out of room on the paper. Anyway it ended up that I paid tax on what I paid for the pickup, not what the state had it valued at. The whole thing is bs anyway, why should anyone who buys a vehicle used have to pay taxes on it again? It has been paid when the vehicle was bought new.

[BlackRidge]

I understand being taxed for purchasing new items, but being taxed for a used items value in a person-person transaction...?  That just screams b*ll*censored*

I'm fine paying where legitimate taxes are due, but this is just stupid

Great topic though, there are a few of my grandpa's rifles waiting for me in California. Was wondering how I'd go about getting it back up here

[Special T]

Drive down and picke em up... cheaper than paying the freight AND the tax... Make it a family vaction. 

[trippledigitss]

I didnt read the whole thread so I'm guessing you probably already got your answer - and then some! So my comment has probably been said already  too - but yes, they are supposed to charge you tax on the sale. The out of state or shipping dealer does not charge tax to the transferring dealer and is not supposed to collect it from out of state buyers. The tax is supposed to be collected at the point of sale. Also, I think regardless of the tax rate in the area where you do the transfer, for purchases over $700 they are supposed to charge you something like 7% tax, I think that is in the state law also. Every dealer is supposed to be collecting this tax by law. In the past, the dealer I use for FFL transfers was not collecting it, but they started last year. Of course there was alot of 'feedback' about this, so they posted a copy of the law in the store in a few places. So if you are finding a place that is not charging you tax, or didnt in the past, consider yourself lucky (and tell me where that is so I can have mine sent there too!   ) , you are getting a deal and it may not last long either!

Oh and the dealer I use also requires a copy of the invoice showing the price - otherwise they will use the 'book value' to determine the tax  

[trippledigitss]

Very intresting. I wonder how they figure out the value of the guns? If you buy a gun for 100.00, and it is a 1000.00 rifle and has a 800.00 scope on it. But you got a great deal. How to they figure out what a scope and rifle is valued at Or do they just go off the purchase price?

You are supposed to pay tax on the purchase price including shipping, regardless if it was for the firearm or accessories. WIth no invoice they use the book value. I tried to get the out of state dealer to give me an invoice that said $100 for the gun and $800 shipping but it didnt work - I had to pay tax on the full amount! 

[6x6in6]

Not exactly a transfer but a gun forwarding question.  A little foggy in what has been mentioned here since this situation is possibly a bit different.

My SIL is from Michigan.  When he enlisted in the Navy 5 years ago he left his long guns behind.  Ultimately ended his Navy tour of duty in Everett and has now settled down in Bothell in a new to them home with my daughter.
Since he owns the guns and wants his Dad to ship them out here, must he go through an FFL to do so?  Other options?
And if the FFL is the only option, is he subjected to either a use or sales tax situation?

[trippledigitss]

I'm no expert but I say Yep - if they are out of state I think they have to be shipped to FFL. FFL transfer will be taxed on book value.

[6x6in6]

That's kinda what I thought. 
The move of the guns to this state triggers the tax.

[rtspring]

6X6  you can use UPS or FEDEX............

[jackelope]

Not exactly a transfer but a gun forwarding question.  A little foggy in what has been mentioned here since this situation is possibly a bit different.

My SIL is from Michigan.  When he enlisted in the Navy 5 years ago he left his long guns behind.  Ultimately ended his Navy tour of duty in Everett and has now settled down in Bothell in a new to them home with my daughter.
Since he owns the guns and wants his Dad to ship them out here, must he go through an FFL to do so?  Other options?
And if the FFL is the only option, is he subjected to either a use or sales tax situation?

The guns already belong to him. There is no transfer of ownership involved. I think if he dives into this a little he will find that he doesn't have to do the FFL transfer at all. The guns already belong to him. No guarantees, he should do his homework on his own, but I suspect that's what he'll find out.

[6x6in6]

Ya know, I kinda wondered if just straight shipping since he owned them was an option.

Thanks you two.
Research time!!!

[6x6in6]

I just ruined his day.....
They just went and flew to Michigan for their daughters 3rd birthday earlier this month.
The conversation went kinda like this:
"Hey, why the hell didn't you run your guns through baggage claim?" 
"Uh, I didn't think you could."
"Well, not everyone drives to Alaska to go whack a moose for example."
"Yeah, I guess your right.  I should have asked you about this sooner huh?"
"Ya think."
 

[carpsniperg2]

I'm no expert but I say Yep - if they are out of state I think they have to be shipped to FFL. FFL transfer will be taxed on book value.

This is very very intresting a friend of mine has done 3 tranfers in the last 3 weeks at 2 diffrent dealers and has not paid sales tax at either location and both dealers have said you do not have to pay sales tax if the guns come from say a state like oregon. So don't know what to think now days. Glad I don't have to worry about it

[jackelope]

I'm no expert but I say Yep - if they are out of state I think they have to be shipped to FFL. FFL transfer will be taxed on book value.

This is very very intresting a friend of mine has done 3 tranfers in the last 3 weeks at 2 diffrent dealers and has not paid sales tax at either location and both dealers have said you do not have to pay sales tax if the guns come from say a state like oregon. So don't know what to think now days. Glad I don't have to worry about it

Your friend got lucky.
I posted this earlier in this thread.

Unless you can prove that you paid sales tax when you bought the gun, the FFL holder is obligated by law to collect the sales tax. You need a bill of sale saying how much you paid for the gun or they will charge you sales tax on the fair market value.
Be aware!! I was told that this pertains even if you are gifted a gun if the gun changes ownership.
RCW 82.12.020(3)
This is direct from my FFL guy.

(3)(a) Except as provided in this section, payment of the tax imposed by this chapter or chapter 82.08 RCW by one purchaser or user of tangible personal property, extended warranty, digital good, digital code, digital automated service, or other service does not have the effect of exempting any other purchaser or user of the same property, extended warranty, digital good, digital code, digital automated service, or other service from the taxes imposed by such chapters.

     (b) The tax imposed by this chapter does not apply:

     (i) If the sale to, or the use by, the present user or his or her bailor or donor has already been subjected to the tax under chapter 82.08 RCW or this chapter and the tax has been paid by the present user or by his or her bailor or donor;

     (ii) In respect to the use of any article of tangible personal property acquired by bailment and the tax has once been paid based on reasonable rental as determined by RCW 82.12.060 measured by the value of the article at time of first use multiplied by the tax rate imposed by chapter 82.08 RCW or this chapter as of the time of first use;

     (iii) In respect to the use of any article of tangible personal property acquired by bailment, if the property was acquired by a previous bailee from the same bailor for use in the same general activity and the original bailment was prior to June 9, 1961; or

     (iv) To the use of digital goods or digital automated services, which were obtained through the use of a digital code, if the sale of the digital code to, or the use of the digital code by, the present user or the present user's bailor or donor has already been subjected to the tax under chapter 82.08 RCW or this chapter and the tax has been paid by the present user or by the present user's bailor or donor

[carpsniperg2]

I guess he must have a lucky rabbits foot or somthing