trout species

[Button Nubbs]

Look up. I did...

As far as showing me how to catch fish...   your funny!

[beau6hunter]

thank you it was intended to be funny! not mean . . . but yes i did and do was just seein if and what knowledge i could gain from fellow sportsman on here! i will post the same pics on here as i send to igfa and link it to this thread!

[Dustin07]

I did not know there was an argument of dolly vs bull, I disappear for a while and all hell breaks loose in the thread?? LOL

one quick google search of "dolly vardon vs bull trout" yields a LOT of info though!!

http://library.fws.gov/Pubs1/bulltrout.pdf

Taxonomic work, published in 1978 and
accepted by the American Fisheries
Society in 1980, identified bull trout as
distinct from the Dolly Varden. Compared
to Dolly Varden, bull trout are
larger on average, with a relatively
longer and broader head. Bull trout are
mainly an inland species, while
Dolly Varden are more common in
coastal areas. In Washington, both
species are present in the Puget Sound
area.

[beau6hunter]

dustin- i am from yakima county and the game depertment here tells me the fish im catching are dolly varden? but they are huge! and there is no way for them to reach the coast from where i fish! now im a lil concerned that i need to find another money hole for bulls instead of dollys!

[Button Nubbs]

So I came across this thread doing a google search the best answer I could come up with after reading the entire discussion was that the "dollys" we have in the puget sound area are actually bull trout. They said puget sound was the only region that bulls were known to become anadromous. They also said dollys were in areas that would not be able to be reached by anadromous species. Long read but I found it interesting, who knows if any of these guys know what they are talking about. I am definitely still confused.

http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/board/showthread.php/16152-Bull-Trout-vs-Dolly-Varden/page3

Go back to page one of this link if you dare.

[singleshot12]

It's all good reading and gets you thinking about the life of a "Dolly" or "Bull Char" but everything I read is still sketchy and confusing..  Even if the Dolly and Bull were separate species and one is not doing so well in a couple of streams - - To close down marine areas and 90% of the rivers for fishing them is a major loss of fishing opportunity.
I really don't think there has been enough studies or proof that makes them separate species.. A Dolly is a Dolly just like a Rainbow is a Rainbow which have differant strains of the same species and look differant depending on where they live. But what do I know i'm just a biologist without a degree   

[jackelope]

Singleshot12-
Wouldn't saying rainbows are rainbows and Dolly's are char being more comparable when you're having the apples to apples discussion? Many different species of rainbow trout, from Kamloops to beardslee to redbands to different steelhead to blah blah blah....dolly, bull, brook trout, lake trout?  Different "subspecies" maybe or "strains" or whatever you want to call them?
I'm not a biologist and I don't have a degree in anything so I'm asking a legit question, not trying to be a smartass.

[Dustin07]

dustin- i am from yakima county and the game depertment here tells me the fish im catching are dolly varden? but they are huge! and there is no way for them to reach the coast from where i fish! now im a lil concerned that i need to find another money hole for bulls instead of dollys!

yeah I didn't even know there was a difference until people brought it up on this thread. I now it makes me wonder if the fish I caught were Dollys or Bulls (either way, all were C&R).

[singleshot12]

Jackalope, I see what you're sayin. Maybe char to char sounds more kosher then.. I'm just going by gut instinct and years and years of studying the "Puget sound Char". But agree Brooks and Lakers are sub-species of Char, but also believe that Dollys and Bulls are the same fish and strain and just live primarily in differant locations.

I wouldn't call the Steelhead,Kamloops,Beardslee,or Redbands differant species of Rainbow though but would call them "strains".......Don't mean to come off as a smarty or know it all either, just like to discuss something I feel isn't legit.

And I'll also admit that I am slightly bitter about loosing a great fishery and also hate it when I can't keep them *censored*s off my hook while trying to target a legal species for dinner.
As far as I know they haven't tagged one of these so-called endangered  species of char to see if they do travel all the way into the Puget sound so Until there is more evidence the Dolly and Bull are not genetically the same and prove how far they travel I will continue to remain skeptical.

[Button Nubbs]

Singleshot

I think it has been proven. In that thread people were saying the only way to truly tell them aprts was taking scale samples or counting scales along the lateral line or something like that. You'd have to read it, I don't remember exactly what they are saying. But then again its just a bunch of dudes from the internet.

I have caught a few while fishing for steelhead that would make a substantial meal for 4. These were in places that were open to retention too I believe.

[singleshot12]

I read it Button Nubbs, alot of differant theory's, most of my points are theory's too. I need more hard evidence than scale samples or scale count to convince me. I just think there needs to be alot more studies done.
The way I see it is a couple bio's came to the conclusion somehow that there are two species of dollys with one not doing so good in a couple streams and not knowing where and how far they travel decided to shut down most of the state to the fishing and retention of them.

[Whitenuckles]

Hey Beau6, if you have the time and after you have reached your goal, see if you can make that all 3 cutthroat species that reside in this state just to say you did it. 

 I thought there were 4. Coastal, West Slope, Lahontan, and Twin Lake. Oh, and what about the sea run coastals?

[beau6hunter]

6x6in6- that would be awesome i have caught two kinds for sure maybe 3! i'll have to research how to define them,i catch west slope all the time in fact just got back a mount! but im not sure what the other kinds were i just told my cousin and girlfriend the people that have been with me when i caught them that they were either lohanton or coastal! but now my curiosity is peaked! thanks for the motivation! my real goal this summer is a eastern brook 25 inches and a golden over 20! i really wish it was about thirty that way mine would be bigger than my dads! 27 inch 7 lb golden he caught 25 years ago! i want some more mounts they are awesome!

[Button Nubbs]

Do you have a pic of the 7lb golden? I'd love to see it.

[beau6hunter]

its on my dads wall! i'll take a pic next time im out there!