Wolf Wars have moved to Washington

[JimmyHoffa]

what is SSS please?

Shoot, Skin, Ship to Canada

[denali]

    did not work well last time

[Wenatcheejay]

what is SSS please?

Shoot, Skin, Ship to Canada

    

[Dave Workman]

I gotta tell you guys for several years I felt exactly as WAcoyotehunter.  I liked the idea of having wolves in the mountains and believed once we reached the original management objectives that they would be delisted and both sides would be happy, Managed wolves back in the wilds.  That they were bigger than the original species, did not really bother me.  That some elk numbers would go down was expected and did not bother me.  I did not support or condon the SSS crowd, I believed it was counter productive for our side.  After watching the last 3 to 5 years unfold I have come to the realization that I'm a fricken moron.  The GOVERNMENT and the pro wolf advocates have no intention of ever compromising with us.  I have gone to the three year meetings with WDFW and have seen first hand they have no intentions of taking anything we ask for into consideration.  The few times they have capitulated on a issue is when we have, in force, confronted them and demaded action (Bear season in Aug).  On this issue WDFW and the Pro wolf advocates will not in any way meet us anywhere near the middle.  So what options do we have?  Lawsuits?  I don't believe with the liberal courts in this state (upholding unconstitutional ballot initiatives 655 and 713) will give us any relief.  So what are we left with?  We are left to fight for our heritage or give up and bitch an moan in a few years.  I believe we will all be fishing in just a few short years.  I see it as almost a sure thing.   

I believe machias has certainly illustrated why there is such animosity in the community toward the WDFW and wolf reintroduction advocates...and this is a "reintroduction" effort. They have even said so.

[billythekidrock]

Not sure if this has already been posted on this thread but a commenter named "rickg1" supposedly from Missoula on the Seattle Times comment section posted a link to this thread with the following comment:
 
 http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,77285.0.ht

there are many hunters from WA who are preaching "sss" and want wolves exterminated from WA. Just look at that link and these people arew supposed to be so called conservationists.All these people care about is having large #s of deer and elk to shoot.   

If you are interested, the Times comment section can be referenced here:  http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/reader_feedback/public/display.php?registration_return=true&source_name=mbase&source_id=2015269378&offset=20

Just a friendly heads up

These types of threads should be private for members only to hash out a proper plan, not open to the world.
This thread makes all hunters look like a bunch of uneducated rednecks and does nothing for the cause when there are SSS type comments and uninformed rhetoric.

[seth30]

The dude is cutting and pasting.  He has my name under stuff I didnt type

[Huntnphish]

I believe machias has certainly illustrated why there is such animosity in the community toward the WDFW and wolf reintroduction advocates...and this is a "reintroduction" effort. They have even said so.

 But even the pro wolf advocates like Robertg admit there is no reason.

There is no reason to reintroduce wolves to Washington when they are already come over naturally from places like Idaho and Canada.

[True Sportsman]

35 pages is a long thread. What have i missed in pages 2 thru 34?

[Wenatcheejay]

Not sure if this has already been posted on this thread but a commenter named "rickg1" supposedly from Missoula on the Seattle Times comment section posted a link to this thread with the following comment:
 
 http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,77285.0.ht

there are many hunters from WA who are preaching "sss" and want wolves exterminated from WA. Just look at that link and these people arew supposed to be so called conservationists.All these people care about is having large #s of deer and elk to shoot.   

If you are interested, the Times comment section can be referenced here:  http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/reader_feedback/public/display.php?registration_return=true&source_name=mbase&source_id=2015269378&offset=20

Just a friendly heads up

These types of threads should be private for members only to hash out a proper plan, not open to the world.
This thread makes all hunters look like a bunch of uneducated rednecks and does nothing for the cause when there are SSS type comments and uninformed rhetoric.

It won't matter. I have been receiving spam in my inbox and in my facebook account from people who are attacking me over this issue. Would 80 senseless hate filled emails equal harassment?. I don't think they are from H-W they are out of Oregan. If people are going to glean posts and only see posts that justify their preconceived ideals that is all they are going to see. If they can't find cause to dismiss anything other than their stance it they will create cause to dismiss us. It is part of the brainwashing. They have to attack me because they can't stand the idea that I might have valid points.

SSS = jail. If you are doing it like illegal drugs, theft and murder I'd recommend keeping it to yourself. That is the shut up part. If you are beating your chest as an armchair warrior it's cowardly. I for one do not think I am man enough for Federal Prision. Lawful debate and trying to reason for a sensible Wolf Plan for the State that serves the people of Washington is what I want. Hunters are going to have to give. Ranchers will have to change some practices. And, hopefully the Pro Wolf Agenda will be checked before the damage is equal to or worse than Idaho.

OK, enough, I'm off the soapbox.

[Wenatcheejay]

35 pages is a long thread. What have i missed in pages 2 thru 34?

We solved all the worlds problems and brought peace to the Middle East, then accidentally a moderator hit the delete key and reset things to the way they were yesterday 

[Huntnphish]

 By the way, for those that have not read the draft proposal here is a couple clips from it. First it clearly states that they may "translocate" wolves.

Translocation (moving animals from one recovery region in Washington to another for the purpose of establishing a new population) is a conservation tool in the draft plan that may be used to establish and expand wolf populations in recovery regions that wolves have failed to reach through natural dispersal.

 Does anyone have the slightest doubt that they have already planned to do this?


 The second clip should really have you upset

The effects that wolves will have on elk, deer, and other ungulate populations and hunter harvest are difficult to predict, but observations from neighboring states suggest that as wolf numbers increase in Washington, there are likely to be localized impacts on ungulate abundance or habitat use. Improved habitat management, flexibility in harvest strategies, and greater prevention of illegal hunting are recommended as measures for sustaining healthy ungulate populations that will support wolves and maintain harvest opportunities.

 I hope you all understand what they are quietly saying here.

[jackelope]

Robert, do you honestly believe 15 breeding pairs will "naturally" make their way into this state? I seriously doubt this state will ever have more "naturally" breeding pairs than it does now, the only way I ever see 15 is if they are transplanted.

I don't believe wolves will be transplanted. I think over time, more wolves will end up in WA. This 15 breeding pairs is not something that I think is going to happen quickly.

Transplant from other states is not in the plan but I believe translocation within state lines is part of the plan when the time comes.
Lots of good info in this thread. Lots of junk too.

[ICEMAN]

By the way, for those that have not read the draft proposal here is a couple clips from it. First it clearly states that they may "translocate" wolves.

Translocation (moving animals from one recovery region in Washington to another for the purpose of establishing a new population) is a conservation tool in the draft plan that may be used to establish and expand wolf populations in recovery regions that wolves have failed to reach through natural dispersal.

 Does anyone have the slightest doubt that they have already planned to do this?


 The second clip should really have you upset

The effects that wolves will have on elk, deer, and other ungulate populations and hunter harvest are difficult to predict, but observations from neighboring states suggest that as wolf numbers increase in Washington, there are likely to be localized impacts on ungulate abundance or habitat use. Improved habitat management, flexibility in harvest strategies, and greater prevention of illegal hunting are recommended as measures for sustaining healthy ungulate populations that will support wolves and maintain harvest opportunities.

 I hope you all understand what they are quietly saying here.

It means they understand that game populations will decrease, hunters will lose opportunities, and they will lockup the woods to prevent "illegal hunting" in any area which may have wolves.

[Machias]

Lawful debate and trying to reason for a sensible Wolf Plan for the State that serves the people of Washington is what I want. Hunters are going to have to give. Ranchers will have to change some practices. And, hopefully the Pro Wolf Agenda will be checked before the damage is equal to or worse than Idaho.

OK, enough, I'm off the soapbox.

I throuoghly enjoy and agree with your thoughts and ideas so I'd like your thoughts and opinions on what do hunters have to give?  We have no bargainning chips that I'm aware of, no numbers, no clout, no political muscle, nothing compared to the other side.  How will the ranchers change exactly?  And what gives you even a glimmer of hope that the last line is possible...to any degree at all?  Please give me a glimmer of hope, any at all because I have seen no evidence of it in the past 5 years.  I value your advice.

[bobcat]

Not sure if this has already been posted on this thread but a commenter named "rickg1" supposedly from Missoula on the Seattle Times comment section posted a link to this thread with the following comment:
 
 http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,77285.0.ht

there are many hunters from WA who are preaching "sss" and want wolves exterminated from WA. Just look at that link and these people arew supposed to be so called conservationists.All these people care about is having large #s of deer and elk to shoot.   

If you are interested, the Times comment section can be referenced here:  http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/reader_feedback/public/display.php?registration_return=true&source_name=mbase&source_id=2015269378&offset=20

Just a friendly heads up

These types of threads should be private for members only to hash out a proper plan, not open to the world.
This thread makes all hunters look like a bunch of uneducated rednecks and does nothing for the cause when there are SSS type comments and uninformed rhetoric.

Maybe this should be in the political forum so only members can see it?