Roosevelt elk question

[CementFinisher]

I hunt an area in the Olympic peninsula and the majority of the large bulls Ive seen "5pt plus" have very short racks between a foot and a half to two feet., they are even kind of narrow. Gmu's clearwater, dickey, Solduc, hoko. Is this normal for the elk in this area or just young bulls with good genetics?

[PolarBear]

Normal

[windygorge]

i stopped hunting in clearwater about 10 years ago.  hunted there for about 6 years.  when i saw bulls, they were big.  no question they would have been records.  never hunted close to roads.  i think every area has its own genetic problems.  just remember they are rosies and alot of them if not most of them do grow narrow and shorter.  if they have some mass, then don't worry, you will run into a good one soon.  if they are wirery or spiney, then its ususally a sign of  bad genetics.  clearwater does NOT have bad genetics, at least when i hunted it.  good luck

[Skyvalhunter]

Why did you stop hunting it?

[grundy53]

sounds like young bulls.

[windygorge]

i moved to camas wa and just changed areas.  i keep saying i want to go back to hunt it.  i have alot more experience under my belt and think it can be a successful hunt there.  its tough hunting and fewer elk than here, but like i said, they are BIG

[PolarBear]

We hunted archery elk at Clearwater for many years but stopped about 15 years ago.  The reprod had grown to the point where it was really tough to hunt and the fact that the tribe had keys to the gates and were shooting bulls right out from under us.  They stole one from us that we had 2 arrows still sticking out of.  They drove up in a truck and shot it with a rifle as it was staggering across the road, all 6 of them got out of the rig, loaded it up whole and tore out of there honking, hooting and hollering at us.      I am told that the timber has grown to where you can hunt through it now.  There were a lot of raghorn 4x4 and 5x5 bulls in that area.

[CementFinisher]

Thanks guys. the have good mass just short and narrow. Yea most of clear water is big wood now. the only plave i have found alot of cuttung going on is just to the east of the dickey. Found me so good area last year. Heading up to scout withen the next to weeks.

[JimmyHoffa]

sounds like young bulls.

My thought too.
Seems to be lots of young ones bouncing around in that jungle.  Not sure how old they need to be to finally get that last growth spurt.  I usually see the ones like you descibe more often as you get farther from the park--hoko, dickey.  When you get in the park (hiking), you can see the older bulls that get high, wide, and heavy.  Sometimes they wander out.

[dreamunelk]

What you are seeing is young bulls.  Genetics has very little to do with it.  GMU's you mentioned have lots of big bulls for the person willing to scout and get off the road.  Tribes shoot a few but state hunters still harvest more.  Good access with minimal gates.  Clearwater, Matheny, and the Sol duc is tough country.  Simply not for the road hunter or wannabe.
Some forage issues in Clear water will affect younger bulls because they are with the groups.  Basically they are competing with the group for forage.  A security over forage thing.  If they get older they will begin to live apart forsaking the security of the group.  If the area they choose has the minerals and other necessary for good horn growth they will get big heavy ones.  Also some years (like a drought year) they may have smaller mass because of poorer forage quality.   
While working in the Clear water this year I seen several P&Y bulls.  Most from a helicopter.  They were in the crap holes.  Funny things is I seen several less than 100 yards from the main lines.  Just in areas that most would not dare to go and only the ones who do their home work will find.

[dreamunelk]

Yikes, almost mist the key word: Narrow!
This is definitely a sign of a young bull.  Each time a bull sheds its antlers it loose a little bit (Think 10ths of millimeters) of the out side pedicle. This is what give the spread. 
Even tho I have stated that forage is limited in these GMU's the herds are in good shape.  A little skinny in the winter.  However during key antler growing times there is lots of forage.  So it is possible that a 2.5 year old bull could have a spindly 5 point brush rack.  Also it is not unheard of for a spike to develop a 3 point rack.  All about nutrition as I keep saying. 
There is actually far more than I have time to write at the moment that affects antler growth.  Just remember there is no one answer and usually many factors involved.  Nature is often simple but most often very complex and complicated and there are always exceptions.

[windygorge]

Yikes, almost mist the key word: Narrow!
This is definitely a sign of a young bull.  Each time a bull sheds its antlers it loose a little bit (Think 10ths of millimeters) of the out side pedicle. This is what give the spread. 
Even tho I have stated that forage is limited in these GMU's the herds are in good shape.  A little skinny in the winter.  However during key antler growing times there is lots of forage.  So it is possible that a 2.5 year old bull could have a spindly 5 point brush rack.  Also it is not unheard of for a spike to develop a 3 point rack.  All about nutrition as I keep saying. 
There is actually far more than I have time to write at the moment that affects antler growth.  Just remember there is no one answer and usually many factors involved.  Nature is often simple but most often very complex and complicated and there are always exceptions.

 

[Coastal_native]

If you're hunting the clearwater and not satisfied with the trophy quality of the antlers...keep heading south in the Clearwater GMU.  Eventually you'll drop down into a major river valley that's seems almost "park-like".  Shoot the first bull you see...you probably won't be disappointed. 

[PolarBear]

Yeah, just hunt the outskirts of Sam's Ridge and you'll do fine.

[CementFinisher]

If you're hunting the clearwater and not satisfied with the trophy quality of the antlers...keep heading south in the Clearwater GMU.  Eventually you'll drop down into a major river valley that's seems almost "park-like".  Shoot the first bull you see...you probably won't be disappointed. 

 Sounds like your describing about 5 min south east of the womans prison. I get frustrated with that area so thick not sure how to hunt it.

[dreamunelk]

Women's Prison?  CN we been hunting the wrong area! 

Actually there is a honor camp there.  Unfortunately only males.  Although I did pass a female employee that was pleasing to the eye.  If she would have stuck her thumb out I would have stopped.  Not sure what the dog she had on the leash would have thought.

[Coastal_native]

This young little 6x7 Clearwater bull is insulted by the suggestion that his family line has poor genetics and narrow short racks.   (Not one of mine, but I'm the current owner...would love to put a cape on it eventually)

[Westsidebowhunter]

Sounds like your seeing 2.5 year old bulls once they hit 3.5 and up they start to get the wow factor specially if they hit 5.5 on up. The dickey however the elk tend to get liver fluke bad from the swamp water they drink and it makes tips of the horns rotten but clearwater does not have that problem at all. go up there during end of september and start of october and you will see some nice bulls since its closed  to muzzleloading besides to tribal hunting

[CementFinisher]

seen a beautiful bull in the solduc in a cranberry field day after closing last season. damm animals.

[dreamunelk]

Liver fluke makes tips of horns rotten?
Not!  They have nothing to do with antler growth.  Again minerals and nutrition!  A few other reasons but, I am to lazy to look up at the moment.  Most likely answer for a weak or sponge (rotten) tip is for some reason growth was not completed.  And guess what the most common reason for this is................Nutrition.
Just about every ungulate has internal parasites.  Considered common in western WA.  Not a problem for them unless their immune system is down or wait for it......................nutritional distress!
Seen lots of bulls from the dickey and no rotten horns.

[Webfoot]

 Most of the elk up here are so inbred, diseased and sick from drinking swamp water that they have shrunk down to where they are midgets. A large bull will weigh somewhere south of 125# and his rack will typically be a five point with about a 12 inch spread, that is if his horns are not rotted off.
It is not hardly worth the drive to come up here and hunt anymore.
The only good thing to come of this is that they are getting easier to pack out of the deep holes.

Happy Hunting

John

[CementFinisher]

the bulls i have seen are healthy large bodied elk, i figured the antlers were due to age just wanted to check. i think the concensus is that they are Young

[THINK_N_ELK]

Most of the elk up here are so inbred, diseased and sick from drinking swamp water that they have shrunk down to where they are midgets. A large bull will weigh somewhere south of 125# and his rack will typically be a five point with about a 12 inch spread, that is if his horns are not rotted off.
It is not hardly worth the drive to come up here and hunt anymore.
The only good thing to come of this is that they are getting easier to pack out of the deep holes.

Happy Hunting

John

Just like there is no more ELK in the Blues, Right?   

[CementFinisher]

Most of the elk up here are so inbred, diseased and sick from drinking swamp water that they have shrunk down to where they are midgets. A large bull will weigh somewhere south of 125# and his rack will typically be a five point with about a 12 inch spread, that is if his horns are not rotted off.
It is not hardly worth the drive to come up here and hunt anymore.
The only good thing to come of this is that they are getting easier to pack out of the deep holes.

Happy Hunting

John

Just like there is no more ELK in the Blues, Right?   

[windygorge]

This young little 6x7 Clearwater bull is insulted by the suggestion that his family line has poor genetics and narrow short racks.   (Not one of mine, but I'm the current owner...would love to put a cape on it eventually)

typical rack you would see.  the result is poor nutrition