West side cow tag first timer how to choose?

[bod]

I drew a cow tag what do I look for in choosing the right animal.

[PA BEN]

W/a meat hunt I would choose one close to a road and a head shot.

[MADMAX]

X-1 above

[HntnFsh]

If its a late tag I would shoot one of last years calves so you dont shoot a pregnant cow.Not fun gutting a cow and finding a fetus in it.

[bobcat]

This is a great topic for discussion.

What about for an August hunt? (or September)

[blacktail luv]

In my opinion cow tags should be given out in the early season so you aren't killing a bunch of pregnant cows.  I'm not sure how anyone could get excited about shooting a cow with a two or three month old fetus in it.  Makes me sick thinking about it. 

[cannon-master]

i got lucky with my cow last year an old broad no fetus inside

[Hunterman]

In my opinion cow tags should be given out in the early season so you aren't killing a bunch of pregnant cows.  I'm not sure how anyone could get excited about shooting a cow with a two or three month old fetus in it.  Makes me sick thinking about it. 

So if you kill a cow in the early season your not kill a calf too?? But wait,,if you kill a breeding  bull,,how many calfs are you killing??? But what the hell do I know about herd control..

Kill the first barren cow you see..

Hunterman(Tony)

[blacktail luv]

I was just stating my opinion.  I am not a cow killer and never will be,  but to each there own.   .  Sorry if I offended anyone.

[rock]

In the early season the biggest one you see!
Late season. If you happen to find a cow in estrus that one or a big calf. 

[rebal69972]

choosing the right animal. thats kinda easy its a meat hunt if it brown its down. 

[jackelope]

Interesting topic.
I think there's mostly too many cows and not enough bulls in most units so killing a cow before she's been bred is not a concern to me. Getting rid of a few cows will likely help the herd, but.... honestly I do not want to field dress a cow or a doe and find a fetus inside. Call me a sissy but I don't want to think about a dead elk fetus every time I have an elk steak for the next 12 months. I would not shoot a cow in the late season, or a doe, for that reason. I don't have a problem shooting a doe in the general season if the rules or permit allows but there's little to no risk that there's a fetus in them at that point. I also wouldn't shoot a doe if a youngster was running with her. I do not apply for cow tags. I have been putting in for points only for a few years although I don't know what I will do with them.

[boneaddict]

Shouldn't offend anyone Blacktail.   I rarely have ever agreed on a DOE or Cow hunt except for population control, and at this current time, not sure any of the populations are at max and need that control.  I believe its also a currentway for revenue and to keep non drawing permit guys HAPPY

Hunterman.....the big difference is one bull can breed a 100 cows.  They generally aren't the ones limiting the population.   Kill a cow or doe and thats potentially many future animals.

I won't look down on someone that is killing one for meat though I have never done it or have desire for it.

It is a good question and you can sort of tell barren critters if you spend alot of time out there.  Some will give you advice to shootthe younger as they taste better.  Some will say shoot the old barren ones as they won't hurt the population then. 

[blacktail luv]

I agree with bone on this one.  I can understand a doe or cow hunt if the habitat is at it's maximum carrying capacity but I doubt that that is the case anywhere in the state.  It's all about the $ to the state, if they can make some $ by giving out thousands of cow tags then great, but I wish they would consider the animal populations over money.  Maybe someday common sense will over ride the $ but I doubt it.
Anyway back to the original question, I guess I would look for a yearling cow, they are the best eating with no calves and won't be pregnant, good luck on your hunt.

[bobcat]

Elk around St. Helens are overpopulated, as the winter kill every year proves. But I don't think everywhere that's considered the Mt St Helens elk herd is over carrying capacity, so I really do question the number of cow permits they put out this year. They added some where there weren't any before, and the hunts that already existed they doubled to quadrupled permit numbers. Just seems a little excessive but I'm hoping they really are going by good scientific data rather than just doing it for revenue (which wouldn't surprise me).

[elksnout]

The first one to present a decent shot...  Just because it doesn't have horns on it doesn't mean it's easy! Make a hunt out of it. We took three cows last year and hunted as hard and long as any bull we've shot in our camp. All deep timber elk miles behind locked gates on FS land. I don't have any problem eating those steaks and burgers in my freezer. If a guy has a issue with finding a fetus just do the gutless method. I wasn't digging in my cow to see if it had one. And it would have bothered me a bit I suppose. But better me doing the eating than winter starvation or some cougar dragging her down.

[rtspring]

I have a cow tag this year,  the first one I see will hit the dirt.  I see it as the state wants me to take out a cow and I will do my part. Sure it could be pregnant, but I also know that by killing this cow maybe others will find enough food to make it through the winter....

Never had a weak stomach and never will.  I see steaks on the BBQ

[steen]

I agree with Bobcat.  I've seen 5 dead elk just off the road driving up towards St. Helens and they need to be thinned.  My husband drew a cow tag in  Nov. so the calf is not big enough to find at that point.  We are looking forward to having a freezer full and helping his two buddies with their cows also.  It is the circle of life even if it hurts a little.  Thank God for the meat and the cow for giving her life. 

[Blsum]

I drew a late season cow tag this year as well. I personally don't have a problem shooting the first big cow I see. Meat is meat. That's the only reason I put in for the tag. I'm not going to be digging around through the guts to see if I can find a fetus. I mean really how big is it going to be at that time of year. Grapefruit, cantaloupe maybe.  if you don't like the way I see it but I'm just trying to fill the freezer.

[KopperBuck]

Have had it happen, and don't have a problem with it. I've also shot a calf, and I've shot a cow with a young one. Doesn't really matter to me, that late in the year calves should be able to make it on their own as long as they have protection of the herd.

I support anterless hunts. I know that we're supposed to be used as a management tool, but more and more I feel like folks are forgetting why we hunted in the first place - to provide protein for our families. I hunt to eat. Sure, I enjoy the hunt and all the peripheral activities, but you will rarely find store bought meat in my freezer. In fact, the only thing in my freezer that was not killed and butchered by myself is chicken. I use the anterless opportunity as a means to keep that badboy full.

[bod]

Its a Williams Creek tag during the rifle season and I would like to shoot a dry cow what do I look for.

[NWWABOWHNTR]

To everyone who said they wouldn't shoot a cow... guess if you are an archer and want to hunt most of this state, you only hunt once every 6-8 years when you draw a bull tag?  Sorry, but I like to hunt, love to put elk and deer in the freezer for my family to eat... horns don't taste worth a crap to me. 

[BOWHUNTER45]

Wow ... very interresting ... well I am not a trophy hunter by any means ...shoot the biggest cow you can find ... Cows taste good no matter big or small ...

[KopperBuck]

Its a Williams Creek tag during the rifle season and I would like to shoot a dry cow what do I look for.

A sterile one.. seriously, you really have no guarantees. Just waiting for a cow that doesn't have a young one in tow doesn't mean anything. Trust me. I've gutted a "dry" cow with a calf bawling off in the woods not more than a 100 yards away.

[fair-chase]

I also have a late cow tag. If I am still empty handed that late in the season after both early and late muzzy hunts I will be looking for a yearling. As far as the management goes the department also uses late hunts to pressure animals off agricultural lands so that they don't have to pay out as much in damage claims. At least I think that is the theory. 

If we were to look at it as purely a herd management without the other factors of infringement on Ag lands and holding capacity, wouldn't we want all cow hunts to be pre rut and all bull hunts to be post rut. Therefore the bulls are not wasting breeding energy on cows that will be extirpated anyways?  Like the discussion and hope to hear some more views on this.

[PA BEN]

I put my daughter and I in for lots of draws this year and we drew partner cow tags. We eat the meat, not much to tag soup. I do believe the tags we drew are to keep animals off agricultural lands. Elk area 6010 Raymond.

[KopperBuck]

For cows I'm not sure there is a good time. We've had tags that go into the spring - you want to talk about fetus... Fall, you run into a bred cow, but if she's already had a calf then it has a better survival chance. I'm not a huge fan on rut and post rut hunts personally, they're too worn down for my taste. A "yearling" cow can still be bred, so the only guarantee would be to shoot a calf.

Like you said, it's not all about herd management, there's a public service as well. I guess horns are a part of that management too, given that it's such a money maker.

[dreamunelk]

What ever one presents the best shot!
In a perfect world we would only harvest the young and the old as these have the most potential of dying of natural causes over the next year.  If you want to get picky take the one with a medium sized snout. 

Do not worry about all the BS about fetuses.  Cow harvest is available for two reasons.  1) Compensatory mortality, in short harvest will be with in levels that would die naturally.  2) Additive Mortality, populations levels are at a point were for many different reasons a reduction in population is necessary.

So have a great hunt and enjoy the meat.

[blacktail luv]

Wow there sure are a lot of proud cow killers on this sight.  I just can't imagine how many more elk we would have if the wdfw cut all of the cow tags out of the west klickitat unit for example( where I'm from). They give out 300 cow tags for a herd that has dwindled to a fraction of what it was 10 years ago.  I love bow hunting elk, it's what I live for.  Am I the only one that thinks more elk would translate to more bull tags in the future for you who can't pull a bull tag? I understand that certain areas have too many elk and numbers need to be reduced, but give more to kids or the disabled in those specific areas.  Hunt harder and shoot a bull.  I'm getting too worked up over this, sorry. 

[KopperBuck]

Wow there sure are a lot of proud cow killers on this sight.  I just can't imagine how many more elk we would have if the wdfw cut all of the cow tags out of the west klickitat unit for example( where I'm from). They give out 300 cow tags for a herd that has dwindled to a fraction of what it was 10 years ago.  I love bow hunting elk, it's what I live for.  Am I the only one that thinks more elk would translate to more bull tags in the future for you who can't pull a bull tag? I understand that certain areas have too many elk and numbers need to be reduced, but give more to kids or the disabled in those specific areas.  Hunt harder and shoot a bull.  I'm getting too worked up over this, sorry. 

It's good insight. I guess it all depends where you're coming from. Too much population can attribute to lesser numbers as well - competition, disease, etc...

Sometimes cow hunts are more about depredation. Coming from a ranching background, I can tell you that it's less expensive for the state to pay out damages for wildlife than it is about revenue from the tags. Unfortunately our own existance demands that wildlife can't exist in abundance everywhere. Do I agree with this.. no. But it's the reality, unless we all want to live in town in highrise buildings.

[KopperBuck]

Wow there sure are a lot of proud cow killers on this sight. 

I believe this wasn't malicious, but I'm damn proud to put meat on the table.

[blacktail luv]

I was a little heated when writing my last post.   My father had a calf watch him field dress it's mother when I was just a little kid and he told me it was a horrible experience for him so he raised me to not shoot cows, and I'm pretty passionate about it. (if you can't tell ) I just feel that the whole state gets managed as one unit not for each gmu on it's own.  The starving elk at st Helens get all the publicity so everyone assumes there are too many elk statewide which couldn't be farther from the truth.  Our herds have a lot of room to grow as far as #'s go in my opinion.  Oregon has twice the elk herd we do, why is that? I just want more elk in this state and I don't think giving out 6125 cow tags is the way to achieve that.

[elksnout]

I was a little heated when writing my last post.   My father had a calf watch him field dress it's mother when I was just a little kid and he told me it was a horrible experience for him so he raised me to not shoot cows, and I'm pretty passionate about it. (if you can't tell ) I just feel that the whole state gets managed as one unit not for each gmu on it's own.  The starving elk at st Helens get all the publicity so everyone assumes there are too many elk statewide which couldn't be farther from the truth.  Our herds have a lot of room to grow as far as #'s go in my opinion.  Oregon has twice the elk herd we do, why is that? I just want more elk in this state and I don't think giving out 6125 cow tags is the way to achieve that.

We all want more elk. And you are correct that the herds were bigger. But really though, with the logging all but gone in most of the Lewis River, Souixon and the Wind could it be that there just isn't the habitat to support those big herds anymore?

[blacktail luv]

So we keep shooting tons of cows til.......? And there is plenty of land and food for the elk in the wind and west klick for sure there are clearcuts everywhere and plenty of room for them to roam. As for the Gifford they need to start logging it again, that is part of the reason for the herds decline in the Lewis and siouxon for sure.  But that will never happen.

[elksnout]

I've been elk hunting this state for 40 years now. I've had and filled three cow tags. Not really thinning the herd to me. Just provided some decent meat and memories. There's 8-10 guys in our camp in any one year and more years than not we do not have a single cow tag in camp. This might be quite typical?? Don't know. In areas that cannot support the herds any more because the logging is gone would you rather see them over populate and starve out in a hard winter? And they have logged the hell out of the eastern Wind unit, western West Klickitat and the upper elevation areas of the Washougal. But I've had biologists tell me that they go in and spray those areas after logging to keep vegetation down so it doesn't compete with replanting efforts. Again don't know. Just been told. And look at the harvest reports. Not many units with 100% success on cows. I'm also glad they did away with the any elk in the Wind and West Klickitat. I'll take my 3 cows.

[blacktail luv]

They do spray the new cuts but only for the first two years I believe to give the new trees a head start, and with cuts ranging from 40 -1 year old they find suitable feed in the older ones.  Everyone always brings up elk starving during the winter.  It would take a major population increase for that to be an issue in my area.  Bottom line there is no way our state is at the maximum carrying capacity for it's elk herd, and the DFW seems okay with that.  I just want my kids to be able to hunt elk in our state, and I think that the way things are going they will be praying for a tag not whining about not drawing a bull tag every 5-10 years when there is no such thing as an over the counter tag.

[KopperBuck]

The majority of OR is a contolled hunt...

[blacktail luv]

A lot of Washington is controlled also, don't think that's the reason.

[Curly]

There are more elk in Oregon because there is way, way, way, more habitat for elk in Oregon. And a lot less people there too.

[KopperBuck]

Sorry, that wasn't my point. It was that most of OR is draw only, no over the counter options on the eastside, most of it anyways. I hunt OR alot, and I don't mind the draw option either. I draw quite a bit, so does my pops. Granted it's not every year, but almost every other where we apply.

[KopperBuck]

There are more elk in Oregon because there is way, way, way, more habitat for elk in Oregon. And a lot less people there too.

Beat me too it - *censored* Population is a HUGE factor. They're sensitive critters.

[Kowsrule30]

The main area I hunt for elk is under population a little..... It would be able to support a lot more deer and elk but the cattle eat everything down..... Good elk/deer feed or not it's cattle food...... Then the ranchers scare off most the elk herding cattle all ml season..... This place has a bunch of burns and cuts......I've had 4 cow tags for this unit and filled them all with two yearlings, one old cow, and a 3-4 year old... (i think) Just NE of my unit I hunt most, quite some years back there was a damage control hunt for ml for a few years and took 2 cows out of that..... All young.... Never found anything to do with a fetus..... Some had milk.... Some were dry..... Probably close to 50/50.... Don't think it really had any impact on the herd......  But they tasted good.....

[rock]

I was a little heated when writing my last post.   My father had a calf watch him field dress it's mother when I was just a little kid and he told me it was a horrible experience for him so he raised me to not shoot cows, and I'm pretty passionate about it. (if you can't tell ) I just feel that the whole state gets managed as one unit not for each gmu on it's own.  The starving elk at st Helens get all the publicity so everyone assumes there are too many elk statewide which couldn't be farther from the truth.  Our herds have a lot of room to grow as far as #'s go in my opinion.  Oregon has twice the elk herd we do, why is that? I just want more elk in this state and I don't think giving out 6125 cow tags is the way to achieve that.

We all want more elk. And you are correct that the herds were bigger. But really though, with the logging all but gone in most of the Lewis River, Souixon and the Wind could it be that there just isn't the habitat to support those big herds anymore?

Have you seen the Siouxon lately? It is getting massively clearcutted.

[steelhead13]

When late archery comes around its all about the meat for me.  I live off elk and deer meat just about every  year.

[elksnout]

Hey Rock. I'd bet the Souixon is 90% national forest. Tell me where it's being massively clearcut on that land today. There is some state land along both the north and south fork Souixon creeks for sure that's been cut. Has been since they punched through over the top of Iron mountain years ago. Then there's what we call the "hair cut". Which is along the southern side of Swift Reservoir where the private land meets the national forest. If you pick the correct vantage to site down from east to west it looks like a bad hair cut. Or rather reprod meets old growth.

[rock]

On 54 if you look across their is probably close to 2000 acres of a straight clearcut, They are doin alot of work by swift to as you said. National forest has been allowing some big cuts.
Its for the best though and helping