Wolf Packs in Washington

[bearpaw]

I am talking changes in the law, changes will happen as people see what wolves really do. 

[Special T]

Anyone want to take a bet? I am 99% sure i know who this Humanure is. And he is a wolf in hunters clothing.

[rasbo]

How do i myself exploit something for money when all my work is on a strictly volunteer basis? I'm just saying what I believe, is all.

Also, did you not see that i said that first post about the economy as tongue-in-cheek? I honestly have no interest or care in tourist revenue. I was just playing devil's advocate for a second.

perhaps we could visit another site you frequent.and follow your posts there what are the other sites  and your poster's name ?

[Johnb317]

 Loss of habitat is the big issue.    Something that hunters have worked hard to preserve (teddy Roosevelt for instance, or the RMEF).   Don't know that wolf haven and their type have done anything but lobby for our tax dollars.   Wolves are corporate hunters, and hunt for fun, not just for survival.    What's interesting is that we actually read this persons posts when it seems to me he/she is disingenuous at best.

Understand I'm just a 56 year old guy that learned about ecology formally (formal means courses/classes in grade/high school and college) and informally, been a city guy and a farm hand.   
Human manure need not reply, I'm not reading. 

[BOWHUNTER45]

Its hard to say what it will take for the people to realize we have NO ROOM IN Washington for a wolf population .....Period !!! They will populate like a coyote but alot bigger and more devastating to our big game herds...... IF THEY WANT THEM THEN IT BEST BE OPEN SEASON YEAR AROUND   

[humanure]

Dogs i lost were a shi-tzu(to coyotes) and a lab(cougar). That was years ago before I got into shepherds.

[Special T]

Well Kain Already popped the cork. Look up Dallas Bollen on Face book. Guess I have to buy Him a Drink when i see him, since he guess who i did!  If you want to know how this guy thinks just go to the WDFW Facebook page and read his posts.

[humanure]

Regardless of who i may or may not be, my word still stands that i have no hidden agenda and have been up front that I am here to discourage illegal acts of law-breaking by other hunters.

[JODakota]

I think for that to be answered in a place like this, its personal preference/opinion. Frankly, I don't hold any value in human life if that person is enchroaching upon my safety. But I treat that as a completely different realm than how I deal with wildlife and its dangers. There's a difference for killing wildlife out of self defense and out of preventing property destruction. This doesn't go for just wolves.

You know what, I'll be a total hypocrite here and say that if I found one of my German Shepherds being attacked by a wolf, i wouldn't hesitate to shoot it if i thought it would save my dogs life. But thats taking into account of personal attachment. Cattle and livestock, on the other hand, is considered by the law and by myself to be completely different. They can be monetarily compensated for if infact a wolf killed it. I also am one of those that support the bill that pushes for excusing the killing of wolves if it is in the act of killing your personal pet, because many of us consider those pets, even the working livestock animals, as members of our family. Cattle however, are not pets.

I have one question. How do you know cattle are not pets? My little cousin has a little steer named Stewie that he is raising in 4H. I am pretty damn sure that's a pet my friend. You came to the wrong place to discuss this and share your view points.

[humanure]

Thats me. Wrong place to be wearing my birthday suit.

[whackemandstackem]

This site is not meant for people to stir things up. The majority of the people on here are logical educated people and we do not need you telling us what "the other side of the story is". I hope the Moderator or creator of this site has the ability to revoke subscriptions because we really dont need people like Humanure on here.

[hirshey]

Thats me. Wrong place to be wearing my birthday suit.

Just a silly place to be wearing your birthday suit... keep that for the bedroom, pal! 

If you're a hunter, I invite you to produce some stimulating conversation on other topics on this website.. I understand you're trying to represent the issue, but I don't think it will be well-received or change a single person's mind on here. Just like nobody will be changing yours.

For those of you that are interested, this is a letter I recently wrote on the topic:

Here are some interesting links showing that there are level-headed hunters with science-based approaches to their conclusions about wolf management. Some of us understand that NO wolves is not a management plan, but that if we desire to continue to hunt alongside wolves, they too need to be managed.
http://biggameforever.org/
 http://thegreatwhitehunter.wordpress.com/2010/04/29/big-game-forever-sign-the-petition/

What some of people forget is that we as humans are PART of the ecosystem, and that we also are predators. (sorry, we all are not going to live life as vegetarians...) We compete against other predators for food sources; we will continue to do so for ages. Because of this, we cannot overlook their management, also. Would you continue to operate your vehicle JUST changing the oil? No; there are other moving parts to consider if in the long term you don't want to break down. The same is true with wildlife management; you have to manage for ALL species, not just a few. Please don't try to tell me that nature does a good job regulating herself; that may be true if our lives were not so intertwined with it; like it or not, we have a stake in what happens to our ungulate populations.

The argument that we should live in the city if we do not like being surrounded by these animals is unrealistic and idealistic; do you recognise how much this would affect YOUR quality of life? Where would your vegetables, meat products, grains, and fruit come from? Surely you don't think they magically arrive at the grocery store, I'm not going to insult your intelligence. The fact is, you need people to live in these environments to allow YOU to live your current lifestyle. Also, if we all lived in the city, can you imagine the sewer and refuse overflow? Come on, admit it! You need us country-folk!

Recently, I took a trip to Idaho east of Moscow and was able to locate wolves within 24 hours of my visit; two seperate packs, in fact. Their populations have not been threatened by these hunting seasons. The elk populations in that area are being pushed closer and closer to city limits as they attempt to escape predation. I discussed this observation with a local road crew, and they noted they had hit THREE wolves on the road in the last 6 months because they were pursuing the elk to those lower, more populated areas. With their pursuit of game species into these more populated areas, you have a few hard truths: more animals will be hit on the roadways, and there is a higher liklihood of person or livestock and wolf-related conflicts. If you allow for the management (yes, hunting) of these animals, the most likely locations they will be removed from are the most accessible locations: these populated areas, which will still allow wolves to be wolves in more remote areas and reduces road kills or other conflicts.

Also, it is important to consider the economics of allowing wolf hunting and the importance this has for state wildlife management. If an area's ungulate populations are devastated by wolf populations, the number of hunters willing to purchase tags decreases; this has a direct coorelation to the amount of funding the state fish and game has for wildlife support including enforcing poaching laws, purchasing land for conservation, and enumerating game animals to set quotas and season limits. The fact is, hunters contribute millions of dollars of revenue for these services annually. Without stable ungulate populations, the funding for state workers decreases, and enforcement also would decrease, opening the door for persons with poaching in mind.

Make no mistake; I am NOT anti-wolf; I understand they have been victimized to some extent. I strongly believe they have a place in this ecosystem, but it cannot be a place above management.

[humanure]

You are right, i should put my money where my mouth is and i will attempt to add any worthwhile comments to non-wolf related threads. Before I do that, i just thought I'd share this: http://www.producer.com/2012/02/livestock-wildlife-%E2%80%A8can-co-exist-producer-%E2%80%A9/

[hirshey]

You are right, i should put my money where my mouth is and i will attempt to add any worthwhile comments to non-wolf related threads. Before I do that, i just thought I'd share this: http://www.producer.com/2012/02/livestock-wildlife-%E2%80%A8can-co-exist-producer-%E2%80%A9/

But how realistic is that for the majority of livestock owners? You want ALL leased grazing lands to have electric fences? 24 hour surveylance? You recognise that that is an extreme case, right? While livestock owners may be able to take something away from that article, you can't expect that treatment to be simulated across the lower 48... think about the difference in terrain; how open is their pasture? Probably not too treed? It is an interesting feel-good article but it can't be expected to become the new management style for all livestock.


PS - the writer spelled "practicing" and "neighbors" wrong. No spell check in Canada? 

[DBHAWTHORNE]

This site is not meant for people to stir things up. The majority of the people on here are logical educated people and we do not need you telling us what "the other side of the story is". I hope the Moderator or creator of this site has the ability to revoke subscriptions because we really dont need people like Humanure on here.

I definitely don't agree with this guy but I see no reason to not allow someone on the forum just because their opinion is not popular consensus..(heck I would have been kicked off here a long time ago if that was the case  ....... but then if this dude is not a hunter I am not sure why he would be here unless it is almost solely to push some kind of agenda or as you say "stir up trouble)...which appears like it might be the case since I don't really see him contributing in anything but wolf topics.