RE: Youth Muzzy Questions

[Pathfinder101]

OK, so I have a question:
I posted this on another muzzy thread, but then I thought I should probably start my own with these questions:
 
I just bought my 13 year old a Winchester .50 cal (used).  He's not a big kid (85 lbs), and I don't want the gun to kick the crap out of him (I will replace the buttpad with a limbsaver).  He shoots a lot (his .308, my .270 and my 7mm), but has never shot muzzy, so we're gonna spend the summer getting proficient.
I know a lot of guys don't like the Pyrodex Pellets, but I was thinking about having him shoot them because they will be easier for him to handle (no measuring), load (no spilling), and I have heard that the consistancy is good.
So here are my questions:

1.  What do you think of the Pyrodex Pellets.  Is this a good choice?
2.  What bullet would you suggest (we are going to hunt elk-east side)?
3.  What powder load/charge would you suggest?
4.  Any other suggestions/tips/hints for "youth" muzzle loading?

[TWG2A]

This has nothing to do with muzzie loading, but may I suggest he do some exercises that focus specifically on the shoulder, armpit and chest areas?

As a petite woman, I've always experienced bruising and soreness in those areas when shooting high powered long guns.

Bench pressing is a good place to start, but there's lots of other exercises that are more specific for building muscle in those areas, which will of course put some "padding" there for him.....

[JimmyHoffa]

1.  What do you think of the Pyrodex Pellets.  Is this a good choice?
2.  What bullet would you suggest (we are going to hunt elk-east side)?
3.  What powder load/charge would you suggest?
4.  Any other suggestions/tips/hints for "youth" muzzle loading?

1.  I like them for in-lines with 209 primers.  If not using 209, I find they have inconsistent ignition and performance wasn't great. 
2.  Kind of depends on twist rate, but given that E-side is usually longer shots I'd look at sabots that use .44 or .45 cal bullets.  I used to use the same bullets that could be put in a .44 mag/special.  Maybe powerbelts.
3.  777, pre-measured and kept in dry speedloaders.  Probably be around 100 grains, but the range time will figure that out.
4.  Mark the ramrod with seating depth, nipple pick and small piece of pipe cleaner, look at methods of keeping the barrel clean--tape, saran wrap, plastic bag....

[Pathfinder101]

This has nothing to do with muzzie loading, but may I suggest he do some exercises that focus specifically on the shoulder, armpit and chest areas?

As a petite woman, I've always experienced bruising and soreness in those areas when shooting high powered long guns.

Bench pressing is a good place to start, but there's lots of other exercises that are more specific for building muscle in those areas, which will of course put some "padding" there for him.....

Thanks.  He is actually a 3 sport athlete (baseball, basketball, football) and lifts weights 3-5 X per week.  He gets up at 5:00am, runs 2 miles and lifts.  He is muscular, but very lean.  I don't see him packing on much more weight.  It is his genetics. 

[Pathfinder101]

1.  What do you think of the Pyrodex Pellets.  Is this a good choice?
2.  What bullet would you suggest (we are going to hunt elk-east side)?
3.  What powder load/charge would you suggest?
4.  Any other suggestions/tips/hints for "youth" muzzle loading?

1.  I like them for in-lines with 209 primers.  If not using 209, I find they have inconsistent ignition and performance wasn't great. 
2.  Kind of depends on twist rate, but given that E-side is usually longer shots I'd look at sabots that use .44 or .45 cal bullets.  I used to use the same bullets that could be put in a .44 mag/special.  Maybe powerbelts.
3.  777, pre-measured and kept in dry speedloaders.  Probably be around 100 grains, but the range time will figure that out.
4.  Mark the ramrod with seating depth, nipple pick and small piece of pipe cleaner, look at methods of keeping the barrel clean--tape, saran wrap, plastic bag....

Thanks.
Obviously we can't use 209 Primers.  I use T7, I was just thinking that Pyrodex would be easier for him to handle in the field.  I guess we can see how much he spills when we are shooting it at the range...

[JimmyHoffa]

You can use the 209s during the general season.  many in-lines can swap out the 209 nipple for the #11, if you wanted to use in a firearm restricted area for example.  I've been using a .45 cal speed loader (plastic) that almost fits in the barrel of a .54 cal muzzy with no spillage.  They make muzzys in .36 cal for squirrels and stuff....maybe they have speed loaders for the .36 that might fit nicely into a .50 cal.

[Pathfinder101]

You can use the 209s during the general season.  many in-lines can swap out the 209 nipple for the #11, if you wanted to use in a firearm restricted area for example.  I've been using a .45 cal speed loader (plastic) that almost fits in the barrel of a .54 cal muzzy with no spillage.  They make muzzys in .36 cal for squirrels and stuff....maybe they have speed loaders for the .36 that might fit nicely into a .50 cal.

We put in for muzzy cow tags here in the Blues.  If we don't get drawn, we'll probably head up to Colville and give that a try.  We'll be limited to #11 primers the whole time.
I'll look into the .36 cal speedloaders.  Thanks

[Dan-o]

1.  I always switch to a musket cap nipple.   SO MUCH more spark, I never have an issue.
2.   I like pyro pellets.  their just easy, and I'm Ok with that.    100 grain charge will kill an elk, but I always pack 150 when I'm in the field.   I'll explain why later.
3.  For elk, I shoot a 400 grain hard cast lead bullet called a Harvester.    I can't tell you the awesome wound channels these bad boys make.   Elk simply hate them.    Besides, while I know guys who've taken elk with much lighter bullets, some times you realllllly want to make sure you're packing a wallop.   You mentioned hunting the Blues.   Do you really want to be under gunned if you run into a Big Foot?     

[Pathfinder101]

1.  I always switch to a musket cap nipple.   SO MUCH more spark, I never have an issue.
2.   I like pyro pellets.  their just easy, and I'm Ok with that.    100 grain charge will kill an elk, but I always pack 150 when I'm in the field.   I'll explain why later.
3.  For elk, I shoot a 400 grain hard cast lead bullet called a Harvester.    I can't tell you the awesome wound channels these bad boys make.   Elk simply hate them.    Besides, while I know guys who've taken elk with much lighter bullets, some times you realllllly want to make sure you're packing a wallop.   You mentioned hunting the Blues.   Do you really want to be under gunned if you run into a Big Foot?     

What kind of range are you getting with a 400 gr bullet?  I am not sure I want to load the little guy up with 150 gr. of powder.
  I was thinking 100 gr with a 300 grain bullet.

I saw a chart where 110 grains of 777 and a 300 gr bullet was only dropping 7 inches at 200 yards.

And if we run into BF, obviously a muzzleloader won't do the job.  If BF could have been killed by a ML, there would be BF's mounted in taverns all across America...

[Sabotloader]

OK, so I have a question: 
I just bought my 13 year old a Winchester .50 cal (used).  He's not a big kid (85 lbs), and I don't want the gun to kick the crap out of him (I will replace the buttpad with a limbsaver).  He shoots a lot (his .308, my .270 and my 7mm), but has never shot muzzy, so we're gonna spend the summer getting proficient.
I know a lot of guys don't like the Pyrodex Pellets, but I was thinking about having him shoot them because they will be easier for him to handle (no measuring), load (no spilling), and I have heard that the consistancy is good.
So here are my questions:

1.  What do you think of the Pyrodex Pellets.  Is this a good choice?

I am not a pellet fan period... but a lot of people use them just for the reasons you stated.

2.  What bullet would you suggest (we are going to hunt elk-east side)?

Know that the heavier the bullet the more felt recoil, but... I would suggest a 300 grain Speer Deep Curl with the sabot that fits your bore.  If you were to use a 100 grains of pellet powder and keep the range of the shot down to the 100 yard area - with good shot placement everything should go as planned.

3.  What powder load/charge would you suggest?

Myself I would suggest a minimum of 100 grains of powder for elk - but I would use loose powder and I would use a .458-275 grain Bloodline bullet in a .458 sabot - still keeping the range in the 100 yard area.  I would also suggest a #11 magnum cap with the capper to mount the cap on the nipple post.  I tried musket caps at first because everyone said the were hotter, which is not the case with a #11 magnum caps and with a #11 capper they are more easy to use than musket caps.

4.  Any other suggestions/tips/hints for "youth" muzzle loading?

If he has been shooting a 308 I am not sure that he will notice a whole of difference in shooting a ML.  The recoil is a little sharper and faster but not all that much differnent... When he is shooting the ML for target practice use ear plugs... the blas has more effect than the recoil.

Just sharing some thoughts....

[JColony]

I shoot 90gr of 777 FFG behind a 300gr Hornady SST with musket caps.  Dropped my elk where it stood at 90 yds.  As for recoil, as earlier stated, if he's shooting the guns you listed he'll be fine with the smokepole.  If you're nervous, maybe start him off with 70gr of powder and work up.  The old .45/70 killed a lot of buffalo back in the day.

[Dan-o]

I keep my shots within 100 yards. 

2" high at 50 yards puts me 5-6 " low at 100"

I think I've killed 10 elk with those Harvesters, and they do magnificent work.    I've never seen better wound channels.   

[PlateauNDN]

1.  I always switch to a musket cap nipple.   SO MUCH more spark, I never have an issue.
2.   I like pyro pellets.  their just easy, and I'm Ok with that.    100 grain charge will kill an elk, but I always pack 150 when I'm in the field.   I'll explain why later.
3.  For elk, I shoot a 400 grain hard cast lead bullet called a Harvester.    I can't tell you the awesome wound channels these bad boys make.   Elk simply hate them.    Besides, while I know guys who've taken elk with much lighter bullets, some times you realllllly want to make sure you're packing a wallop.   You mentioned hunting the Blues.   Do you really want to be under gunned if you run into a Big Foot?     

What kind of range are you getting with a 400 gr bullet?  I am not sure I want to load the little guy up with 150 gr. of powder.
  I was thinking 100 gr with a 300 grain bullet.

I saw a chart where 110 grains of 777 and a 300 gr bullet was only dropping 7 inches at 200 yards.

And if we run into BF, obviously a muzzleloader won't do the job.  If BF could have been killed by a ML, there would be BF's mounted in taverns all across America...

    You had me worried there for a minute dan-o, I thought you were in this thread telling about how your son was doing already, whew, heart attack diverted, carry on.

[CP]

1.  I always switch to a musket cap nipple.   SO MUCH more spark, I never have an issue.
2.   I like pyro pellets.  their just easy, and I'm Ok with that.    100 grain charge will kill an elk, but I always pack 150 when I'm in the field.   I'll explain why later.
3.  For elk, I shoot a 400 grain hard cast lead bullet called a Harvester.    I can't tell you the awesome wound channels these bad boys make.   Elk simply hate them.    Besides, while I know guys who've taken elk with much lighter bullets, some times you realllllly want to make sure you're packing a wallop.   You mentioned hunting the Blues.   Do you really want to be under gunned if you run into a Big Foot?     

150 with a 400g bullet – ouch, that hurts just thinking about it.  I would not recommend that load for a youth.

[Dan-o]

It's a good time.  Besides, when they shoot an elk they forget all about the recoil....   

I think they do have a 330 gr Harvester, but I never want to bring a light bullet to a job suited to a heavy bullet....   

[Dan-o]

Didn't mean to spook you, Plat.     


I mean:   

(inside joke:  157 pages......... )

[Pathfinder101]

It's a good time.  Besides, when they shoot an elk they forget all about the recoil....   

Yes.  When they are shooting at an elk. 
But he'd feel it plenty at the range, and I am not going to load him up with a different load in the field than what we practiced with.