Post by: fireweed on April 25, 2022, 08:20:13 AM
Survey to kick off New rules for E-Bikes on WDFW/DNR land.
My main comment, look at EASEMENTS to public land, too, not just the land itself. There are many DNR routes that pass through private land that go to public land. Why couldn't E-Bikes be use on these routes??
Post by: Westside88 on April 25, 2022, 08:46:03 AM
Post by: KFhunter on April 25, 2022, 09:22:14 AM
Post by: CP on April 25, 2022, 09:25:13 AM
Just because it is a bike doesn't mean that it isn't a potential cause of fires. Pedal bikes don't burst into flames when the batteries decide to "violently vent".
Same battery technology as cell phones, nav units, ear buds …
Post by: HillHound on April 25, 2022, 09:29:08 AM
Ebikes should have ORV stickers to help pay for, and only use trails designated for motorcycles or larger off road vehicles, with no wattage restrictions.:yeah:
Post by: HillHound on April 25, 2022, 09:33:02 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 25, 2022, 09:36:58 AM
Just kidding. I don't care if someone uses an e-bike. Took the survey - allow them all.
Post by: CP on April 25, 2022, 09:37:34 AM
Post by: KFhunter on April 25, 2022, 09:37:51 AM
Post by: KFhunter on April 25, 2022, 09:41:56 AM
We need less restrictions on public land, not more. There is no reason to ban ebikes. What do they hurt? Who do they harm? Why does anyone care how hard it is to peddle a bicycle?
This is just the beginning, ebikes are flooding the market and soon, they'll want to convert existing motorized trail systems to non-motorized, but ebike accessible.
Tbey should have to get ORV stickers and be plugged in as motorized vehicles (which they are) and get rid of all these stupid and often violated classes of ebikes. If its got a battery and electric motor, ORV it!
This will ensure all these trail systems stay open to ORV activites and will provide a boost of much needed revenue to keep them maintained and open.
Post by: CP on April 25, 2022, 09:44:47 AM
We need less restrictions on public land, not more. There is no reason to ban ebikes. What do they hurt? Who do they harm? Why does anyone care how hard it is to peddle a bicycle?
This is just the beginning, ebikes are flooding the market and soon, they'll want to convert existing motorized trail systems to non-motorized but ebike accessible.
Tbey should have to get ORV stickers and be plugged in as motorized vehicles (which they are) and get ride of all these stupid and often violated classes of ebikes. If its got a battery and electric motor, ORV it. This will ensure all these trail systems stay open to ORV activites and will provide a boost of much needed revenue to keep them maintained and open.
ORV stickers should be eliminated for all vehicles.
Post by: KFhunter on April 25, 2022, 09:45:52 AM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on April 25, 2022, 09:47:08 AM
Post by: CP on April 25, 2022, 09:50:55 AM
Ok, how does the state pay for orv trails then?
Maybe use the surplus from the 405 toll lanes? The state has plenty of money but they are always looking for more ways to squeeze the public. Everyone is looking for someone else to “pay their fair share”.
“Those guys over there have something that I don’t; They need to pay!”
Post by: KFhunter on April 25, 2022, 09:56:58 AM
Ok, how does the state pay for orv trails then?
Maybe use the surplus from the 405 toll lanes? The state has plenty of money but they are always looking for more ways to squeeze the public. Everyone is looking for someone else to “pay their fair share”.
“Those guys over there have something that I don’t; They need to pay!”
There's even more people that want something for nothing :twocents:
Post by: SuperX on April 25, 2022, 10:23:40 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 25, 2022, 10:36:49 AM
I took the survey and said no e-bikes anywhere. I think allowing them will be the end of hunting within 20 years.
Regardless of e-bikes, the antis will be the end of hunting in 20 years unless we do something about our governor candidates.
Post by: KFhunter on April 25, 2022, 10:37:57 AM
20 years is very optimistic!
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 25, 2022, 10:39:57 AM
Post by: Jonathan_S on April 25, 2022, 10:48:42 AM
Seems pretty simple. Its got a motor so if a motorized vehicle is approved for use then ebikes should also be allowed. Non motorized means just that...NON motorized. No reason to over complicate things.
:yeah: too clever by half to call them non motorized. I get the incentive to do so by the people who have found a loophole to easier access but that doesn't make it right or even logical.
Post by: trophyhunt on April 25, 2022, 11:07:41 AM
Post by: CP on April 25, 2022, 11:14:55 AM
Post by: Rainier10 on April 25, 2022, 11:15:18 AM
:yeah: I am all for ebikes on motorized trails and am all for them paying for ORV tabs to help maintain those trails. I am 100% against motorized ebikes on non motorized trails for a ton of reasons. With that said if they do legalize a motorized ebike on a non motorized trail I will probably get one and use it.Seems pretty simple. Its got a motor so if a motorized vehicle is approved for use then ebikes should also be allowed. Non motorized means just that...NON motorized. No reason to over complicate things.
:yeah: too clever by half to call them non motorized. I get the incentive to do so by the people who have found a loophole to easier access but that doesn't make it right or even logical.
Post by: KFhunter on April 25, 2022, 11:15:30 AM
I got stuck on question 14.
I skipped all that crap, it took it.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 25, 2022, 11:17:29 AM
Love my ebike!! Less damage to trails than horses, the hate for these bikes crack me up. :chuckle:how is thinking a motorized vehicle should be treated as a motorized vehicle hate :dunno: They are motorized. Simple as that. Yes I've ridden them fyi.
Post by: CP on April 25, 2022, 11:19:07 AM
I got stuck on question 14.
I skipped all that crap, it took it.
Well, I’m going with Genderfluid, so my response will be counted. Yours will most likely go in the round file.
Post by: KFhunter on April 25, 2022, 11:20:48 AM
I got stuck on question 14.
I skipped all that crap, it took it.
Well, I’m going with Genderfluid, so my response will be counted. Yours will most likely go in the round file.
I shoulda think of that :bash: :bash:
:chuckle:
Post by: buckfvr on April 25, 2022, 11:27:21 AM
Dont say not gonna happen, did anyone ever see us getting to where we are now? And being asked questions like #14 ?
Post by: Turdle on April 25, 2022, 11:30:00 AM
However I sure see a lot of horse and hiking trails that look like fun and good hunting access. Who pays for the trail maintenance on those trails?
Is there some sort of horse or hike permits out there? :dunno:
Post by: KFhunter on April 25, 2022, 11:38:12 AM
Post by: fishngamereaper on April 25, 2022, 11:42:01 AM
Don't have an ebike. But have motorcycles, and don't mind paying orv for trail maintenance.
However I sure see a lot of horse and hiking trails that look like fun and good hunting access. Who pays for the trail maintenance on those trails?
Is there some sort of horse or hike permits out there? :dunno:
I spent a summer back in 96 hiking and clearing trails in the Alpine lakes.
Lots of volunteer opportunities ..
I don't hate e bikes ..
But they are motorized so it seems current rules in place apply.
Post by: CP on April 25, 2022, 11:43:26 AM
Which would you pick?
Post by: Curly on April 25, 2022, 11:47:54 AM
I got stuck on question 14.
I don't even know what most of those mean? :dunno:
Post by: luvmystang67 on April 25, 2022, 11:58:07 AM
My take was that the original non-motorized rules were to prevent damage to areas caused by off-road use and to allow wildlife some reprieve from the constant hum of motors. I don't really see how e-bicycles (drawing a distinction betwen the new modern e-dirtbikes) really threaten any of this. They're nearly silent, aren't really off-road capable, and really comply with all of the original intentions as I see it.
A NEW intent is that lazy people shouldn't have the same opportunity as hardworking ambitious people, which I don't necessarily disagree with, but we should note that this would be a change in the original intent of the law.
I don't see any particular issue with allowing e-bikes in any place a mountain bike is also allowed... Perhaps with some motor size limitation to prevent "essentially dirtbikes" from sneaking in...
Disclaimer... I did just buy a sick e-bike, but i avoided the modern super-powerful dirtbike ones to be respectful of the intent I mention above.
Post by: trophyhunt on April 25, 2022, 12:11:10 PM
It's not, I just like to poke bears! lol. I do think it's funny though how when the feds classify a 750 and under ebike as non motorised people get up set if you ride them on a bike trail. I will and continue to ride mine on trails on Na forest land that allow regular bikes, had a forest service guy one time tell me I couldn't but I just laughed at him and said ok. I won't do it in the wilderness though, there are some laws I think are responsible.Love my ebike!! Less damage to trails than horses, the hate for these bikes crack me up. :chuckle:how is thinking a motorized vehicle should be treated as a motorized vehicle hate :dunno: They are motorized. Simple as that. Yes I've ridden them fyi.
Post by: CP on April 25, 2022, 12:13:21 PM
I got stuck on question 14.
I don't even know what most of those mean? :dunno:
Me either. It is hard to take a survey seriously when you have 8 choices for “what is your gender?”.
Post by: luvmystang67 on April 25, 2022, 12:14:28 PM
I got stuck on question 14.
I don't even know what most of those mean? :dunno:
Me either. It is hard to take a survey seriously when you have 8 choices for “what is your gender?”.
I went straight (or not straight?) for gender fluid
Post by: CP on April 25, 2022, 12:44:44 PM
Post by: KFhunter on April 25, 2022, 01:02:52 PM
Same impact on public land?
Which would you pick?
That's not even apples to oranges, the KTM is a road legal bike, and doesn't require ORV /OHV stickers
Post by: mcrawfordaf on April 25, 2022, 01:13:00 PM
Same impact on public land?
Which would you pick?
Neither TBH :dunno:
My only real concern with legally allowing ebikes on lands is potential increase in low quality bikes/batteries going into the woods. Aside from hunting access, the potential for fires caused by ebike batteries has been brought up quite a bit in just mountain biking forums. Sure the $1500+ bikes ya'll are shelling out for are probably well vetted and safe. I worry about Joe Blow finding out he can use motorized bikes up in the woods now and gets a $250 chinese amazon special that blows up setting against a tree...
idk.
Post by: Jake Dogfish on April 25, 2022, 01:15:47 PM
The state wants input from non-binary individuals as well. :tup:I got stuck on question 14.
I skipped all that crap, it took it.
Well, I’m going with Genderfluid, so my response will be counted. Yours will most likely go in the round file.
I shoulda think of that :bash: :bash:
:chuckle:
Post by: CP on April 25, 2022, 01:22:34 PM
Same impact on public land?
Which would you pick?
That's not even apples to oranges, the KTM is a road legal bike, and doesn't require ORV /OHV stickers
The Rad is street legal as well but no, there is no comparison. Yet they are treated exactly the same on public lands. Both are only allowed on motorized trails and forest roads open to motorized public use.
So, why would you limit yourself to 1hp when you can have 120hp or more and be regulated the same way?
Post by: CP on April 25, 2022, 01:24:54 PM
The state wants input from non-binary individuals as well. :tup:I got stuck on question 14.
I skipped all that crap, it took it.
Well, I’m going with Genderfluid, so my response will be counted. Yours will most likely go in the round file.
I shoulda think of that :bash: :bash:
:chuckle:
Can I be both Genderfluid and non-binary? Then my vote is counted twice right, at least twice?
Post by: KFhunter on April 25, 2022, 01:27:28 PM
Same impact on public land?
Which would you pick?
That's not even apples to oranges, the KTM is a road legal bike, and doesn't require ORV /OHV stickers
The Rad is street legal as well but no, there is no comparison. Yet they are treated exactly the same on public lands. Both are only allowed on motorized trails and forest roads open to motorized public use.
So, why would you limit yourself to 1hp when you can have 120hp or more and be regulated the same way?
The 1hp makes very little noise, costs $13,000 less, zero scent or emissions, no motorcycle insurance required, no endorsements, no licensing, tax free beyond sales tax, almost no maintenance, no gasoline, and you can use bike lanes in town.
Post by: Chesterdog on April 25, 2022, 01:32:18 PM
Post by: KFhunter on April 25, 2022, 01:33:40 PM
More non-hunting and fishing people using the woods, replacing former user groups with new user groups and their bigger voices.
Post by: trophyhunt on April 25, 2022, 01:36:54 PM
To me it's another example of WDFW not managing fish and wildlife. Instead of fighting for increased access for what should be their constituency base, they keep wanting to bring non-outdoor enthusiasts into the woods and then they claim that they need to redirect department resources towards serving those people? We have laws on the books about non-motorized access which actually work. Why change them? Don't forget that there are thousands of miles of paved roads for e-bikes to use all over the state but public wilderness access shrinks every year. If I wake up early and hike my butt off to get away from crowds, only to have a millennial scoot by on an e-bike with Macklemore playing on a boom box, ill explode. Leave the wilderness in DNR and State managed lands wild!Ive never played Macklemore on my boom box while riding!! :chuckle:
Post by: KFhunter on April 25, 2022, 01:41:21 PM
Not my music, couldn't get through it all
Post by: Chesterdog on April 25, 2022, 01:49:54 PM
Federal funding has increased dramatically for building and expanding transportation corridors despite the fact that they leave the State and County vulnerable to lawsuits. Is that what this e-bike survey is all about?
Post by: KFhunter on April 25, 2022, 01:54:38 PM
We used to have classes of motorcycles too.
Post by: buckfvr on April 25, 2022, 02:16:14 PM
All the while sitting around a campfire trying in vain to decide what gender they are.
Post by: fireweed on April 25, 2022, 02:47:32 PM
binary, non-binary, gender fluid and what does this have to do with e-bikes?
Post by: CP on April 25, 2022, 02:50:00 PM
Something else to consider... There is currently a lawsuit pending with the Wa. State Supreme Court about a bicycle accident at Cecil Moses Memorial Park in Tukwila that left the rider a quadriplegic. The case boils down to weather the bike trail is a "Transportation corridor", which would potentially leave the county liable for the injured rider, or if it's a "recreation property", which historical president has determined carries with it a waiver of liability to the land owner.
Federal funding has increased dramatically for building and expanding transportation corridors despite the fact that they leave the State and County vulnerable to lawsuits. Is that what this e-bike survey is all about?
This survey and the upcoming virtual public meetings are in response to a couple of bills that require public input on the matter. Prior to these bills the DNR and WDFW basically went against the state law that defines what a bicycle is and unilaterally, and without public input, closed off many trails to Ebikes. Trails that were previously open to all bicycles as defined by RCW 46.04.071.
This process will force the DNR and WDFW to listen to the public's opinion and redo the rules accordingly.
Post by: Jake Dogfish on April 25, 2022, 03:36:27 PM
I don’t really understand the classes of ebikes.
However I had no trouble answering question 14. :twocents:
Post by: Chesterdog on April 25, 2022, 03:39:44 PM
Post by: KFhunter on April 25, 2022, 04:18:25 PM
Took the survey.
I don’t really understand the classes of ebikes.
However I had no trouble answering question 14. :twocents:
Ya, and enforcement of these classes of ebikes would be difficult.
If ebikes are allowed in non-motorized areas I'll convert my bike, and how they gonna know if it's 750w or 1000w? and why would anyone bother to check?
Post by: hunthard on April 25, 2022, 04:23:30 PM
Post by: Jingles on April 25, 2022, 04:32:25 PM
Post by: Bareback on April 25, 2022, 04:41:58 PM
I can see it now, here comes Lorna Smith and crowd on their ebikes to see all the sows and cubs they saved.
Post by: KFhunter on April 25, 2022, 04:42:47 PM
Post by: CP on April 25, 2022, 04:44:36 PM
Took the survey.
I don’t really understand the classes of ebikes.
However I had no trouble answering question 14. :twocents:
Class 1 – pedal assist only – assist speed limited to 20mph (almost nobody sells them in the US, it’s a European thing)
Class 2 - pedal assist & throttle – assist & throttle speed limited to 20mph (most common)
Class 3 - pedal assist to 28mph – throttle: not supposed to have one but some do, if so, throttle speed limited to 20mph
All of these are limited to 750watts power output.
Many modern Ebikes are genderfluid – default class 2, press a button - class 3, press another button -moped, press a secret button – beyond moped.
Post by: KFhunter on April 25, 2022, 04:49:30 PM
Post by: templar021 on April 26, 2022, 04:36:12 PM
Post by: Jake Dogfish on April 26, 2022, 04:41:53 PM
If they are limited to 750 watts, who cares how they assist you? Where are bikes more than 750 watts allowed? The classes seem pointless to me.Took the survey.
I don’t really understand the classes of ebikes.
However I had no trouble answering question 14. :twocents:
Class 1 – pedal assist only – assist speed limited to 20mph (almost nobody sells them in the US, it’s a European thing)
Class 2 - pedal assist & throttle – assist & throttle speed limited to 20mph (most common)
Class 3 - pedal assist to 28mph – throttle: not supposed to have one but some do, if so, throttle speed limited to 20mph
All of these are limited to 750watts power output.
Many modern Ebikes are genderfluid – default class 2, press a button - class 3, press another button -moped, press a secret button – beyond moped.
Post by: Mudman on April 26, 2022, 05:03:42 PM
Post by: fishngamereaper on April 26, 2022, 05:06:24 PM
Its about access to public lands for everyone. Not everyone is able to hike 5+ miles to get to good hunting areas behind gates. Not everyone has access to horses, etc. When your 70 years old and your knees are shot from 40 years of packing elk down steep hills, you will be happy you can use an ebike to get back into the animals.
So everyone deserves 100 percent equal access...
I can't do or hunt the way I could ten years ago...I've accepted that fact...I don't expect anyone, private, State, or federal to make accommodations for me...it's life ..I've accepted it ..I don't feel entitled to motor assisted cruise past some young guy working his butt off to get in deep...but that's just me. :twocents:
Post by: hunthard on April 26, 2022, 05:10:38 PM
Post by: fishngamereaper on April 26, 2022, 05:15:05 PM
Well good for you, mean while the rest of us would like to continue on hunting and having an ebike make that possible.
I'll continue hunting... without the expectation that I deserve to go and do everything I did when I was younger...
To each their own .. just my opinion.
Post by: hunthard on April 26, 2022, 05:18:52 PM
Post by: fishngamereaper on April 26, 2022, 05:19:52 PM
The few seasons that followed he refused to get the handicap placard, or handicap license..or anything the would give him a leg up...lol..I know..but he made the same joke ......he told me he would hunt the way God intended him to hunt naturally...and he did...it will forever be my guide ...
Anyway..carry on.. that's all I got.
Post by: Forks on April 26, 2022, 05:28:31 PM
Post by: hunthard on April 26, 2022, 05:45:02 PM
Post by: Jingles on April 26, 2022, 05:55:18 PM
Its about access to public lands for everyone. Not everyone is able to hike 5+ miles to get to good hunting areas behind gates. Not everyone has access to horses, etc. When your 70 years old and your knees are shot from 40 years of packing elk down steep hills, you will be happy you can use an ebike to get back into the animals.
So everyone deserves 100 percent equal access...
I can't do or hunt the way I could ten years ago...I've accepted that fact...I don't expect anyone, private, State, or federal to make accommodations for me...it's life ..I've accepted it ..I don't feel entitled to motor assisted cruise past some young guy working his butt off to get in deep...but that's just me. :twocents:
No it is not just you at nigh on 74 and both knees shot I can't do what I did 10 years ago as fast as I did so change plans to start earlier and take longer to get where I wanted to go also loosing the 30 pounds made a big difference. Heck have found that because I do move slower I see and hear a lot more than the speed demon hell bent on getting in ahead of everyone else.
Post by: CP on April 26, 2022, 06:03:16 PM
If they are limited to 750 watts, who cares how they assist you? Where are bikes more than 750 watts allowed? The classes seem pointless to me.Took the survey.
I don’t really understand the classes of ebikes.
However I had no trouble answering question 14. :twocents:
Class 1 – pedal assist only – assist speed limited to 20mph (almost nobody sells them in the US, it’s a European thing)
Class 2 - pedal assist & throttle – assist & throttle speed limited to 20mph (most common)
Class 3 - pedal assist to 28mph – throttle: not supposed to have one but some do, if so, throttle speed limited to 20mph
All of these are limited to 750watts power output.
Many modern Ebikes are genderfluid – default class 2, press a button - class 3, press another button -moped, press a secret button – beyond moped.
I don't disagree, but that is the law.
"Where are bikes more than 750 watts allowed?" Private land, and on the street if street legal. I have a 34,000 watt bike, it's allowed on public streets and some trails, some places in the National forests, many other places.
Post by: kramman on April 26, 2022, 06:22:51 PM
Post by: CP on April 26, 2022, 06:26:44 PM
If it's open to motorized vehicles it's open to an e bike... if its closed to motorized vehicles then it's closed to e bikes. I believe we r over thinking it. It either has a propulsion system (motor electric or otherwise) or it doesnt.
That may be your opinion of the way things should be, and you are welcome to it, but that is not the law.
Post by: highcountry_hunter on April 26, 2022, 07:08:49 PM
If it's open to motorized vehicles it's open to an e bike... if its closed to motorized vehicles then it's closed to e bikes. I believe we r over thinking it. It either has a propulsion system (motor electric or otherwise) or it doesnt.
Exactly. Regardless of the wattage, pedal assist or other assorted BS details, it’s an electric MOTOR. It motorizes a 2 wheeled machine. Simple as that. Should not be allowed on any non motorized trails. Same as a gasoline powered dirt bike, atv, utv, or Toyota rock crawler.
Bad knees?
Not in good enough shape to hike in as far as you want?
Lack of motivation to get up a few hours earlier and hike in?
Tough F’kin titty! Life isn’t fair.
It’s called backcountry for a reason, the last thing anybody wants is to go 5 miles from the nearest road and see 5 e-bikes leaned up against trees
Post by: Limhangerslayer on April 26, 2022, 07:21:15 PM
:yeah: a motor is a motor, might as well say it’s only a 50cc engine so it doesn’t count either.If it's open to motorized vehicles it's open to an e bike... if its closed to motorized vehicles then it's closed to e bikes. I believe we r over thinking it. It either has a propulsion system (motor electric or otherwise) or it doesnt.
Exactly. Regardless of the wattage, pedal assist or other assorted BS details, it’s an electric MOTOR. It motorizes a 2 wheeled machine. Simple as that. Should not be allowed on any non motorized trails. Same as a gasoline powered dirt bike, atv, utv, or Toyota rock crawler.
Bad knees?
Not in good enough shape to hike in as far as you want?
Lack of motivation to get up a few hours earlier and hike in?
Tough F’kin titty! Life isn’t fair.
It’s called backcountry for a reason, the last thing anybody wants is to go 5 miles from the nearest road and see 5 e-bikes leaned up against trees
Post by: CP on April 26, 2022, 08:12:13 PM
Its about access to public lands for everyone. Not everyone is able to hike 5+ miles to get to good hunting areas behind gates. Not everyone has access to horses, etc. When your 70 years old and your knees are shot from 40 years of packing elk down steep hills, you will be happy you can use an ebike to get back into the animals.
Ask your doctor to write you a prescription for an ADA pass. With that you may ride your ebike on any non-motorized trail where bicycles are allowed.
I have one because my doc doesn’t want me hiking up steep inclines (lack of cartilage in my right knee). I don’t like to use it much, but it comes in handy when needed.
Maybe some won't want to see you on "their" trail, but, you know, Tough F’kin titty! Life isn’t fair.
Post by: hunthard on April 26, 2022, 08:31:30 PM
It’s called backcountry for a reason, the last thing anybody wants is to go 5 miles from the nearest road and see 5 e-bikes leaned up against trees
Got to wonder how anyone could carry there ebike 5 miles from the nearest road :IBCOOL:
Post by: 509 on April 26, 2022, 09:57:26 PM
But a decade ago, ALL AGENCIES did not agree on what a e-bike was relative to motorized/ unmotorized.
Forest Service was leaning to e-bikes were motorized, and they were definitely banned in Wilderness.
However, the state of Washington viewed e-bikes as non-motorized and allowed in setting where bicycles were allowed.
I have owned e-bikes for years, and really there is NO DIFFERENCE between an e-bike and a bicycle EXCEPT for the age of the person riding!!!
If a trail is closed to bicycles it should be closed to ebikes.
Post by: trophyhunt on April 27, 2022, 04:59:37 AM
Post by: highcountry_hunter on April 27, 2022, 07:07:46 AM
And if it’s open to bicycles it should be open to ebikes as well.How bout dirt bikes?
Post by: JakeLand on April 27, 2022, 07:22:21 AM
or hike in and find horses, Lama’s or goats tied up because they’re to lazy and outta shape to hike in ?If it's open to motorized vehicles it's open to an e bike... if its closed to motorized vehicles then it's closed to e bikes. I believe we r over thinking it. It either has a propulsion system (motor electric or otherwise) or it doesnt.
Exactly. Regardless of the wattage, pedal assist or other assorted BS details, it’s an electric MOTOR. It motorizes a 2 wheeled machine. Simple as that. Should not be allowed on any non motorized trails. Same as a gasoline powered dirt bike, atv, utv, or Toyota rock crawler.
Bad knees?
Not in good enough shape to hike in as far as you want?
Lack of motivation to get up a few hours earlier and hike in?
Tough F’kin titty! Life isn’t fair.
It’s called backcountry for a reason, the last thing anybody wants is to go 5 miles from the nearest road and see 5 e-bikes leaned up against trees
Ebikes don’t tear up ground like any of the above mentioned period . So there shouldn’t be anything but your own 2 legs allowed up in wilderness?
Post by: KFhunter on April 27, 2022, 07:40:33 AM
and besides, you don't ride llamas so you're still hiking :chuckle:
There's not enough horse camps to support a huge user group like ebikes with trailers either taking up those spots. Like I said its a new user group pushing out an old user group.
Post by: RC on April 27, 2022, 08:02:15 AM
Take it for what it's worth, but he said "if it has pedals, you're fine."
Post by: JakeLand on April 27, 2022, 08:02:50 AM
Ebikes shouldn't be running up on pack animals because they should be on orv trails, with other motorized vehicles.so it’s like a old fashion pissing match !
and besides, you don't ride llamas so you're still hiking :chuckle:
There's not enough horse camps to support a huge user group like ebikes with trailers either taking up those spots. Like I said its a new user group pushing out an old user group.
Post by: hawks33 on April 27, 2022, 08:16:55 AM
I am definitely considering an ebike just because of these incidents and there have been multiple incidents. I'm perfectly capable of hiking long distances, I just cant compete with someone with keys to a gate and a truck :dunno:
Post by: KFhunter on April 27, 2022, 08:19:28 AM
Not gonna get bent nor get all mad here. When they show up in my areas, I'll switch it up and use them too. Until then, I vote in the survey and discuss my opinion here for all that's worth...not even :twocents:
Post by: hunter399 on April 27, 2022, 08:40:21 AM
I was originally against ebikes and even advocated against them on this forum before. With that said, I have changed my tune in some regards. As more gates have gone up, I've seen a lot of areas I used to drive into and hike become inaccessible from a hiking standpoint from the new gates. I've also found areas with gates that I have attempted to hike, only to have a vehicle with hunters drive past me (last year I was 6 miles in on a road) in an area posted as non motorized only. I've had this experience on FS roads, Weyerhauser and Sierra properties that were gated and/or posted for non motorized. Some may have been guys simply working, others were certainly hunters violating the rules.Totally agree..
I am definitely considering an ebike just because of these incidents and there have been multiple incidents. I'm perfectly capable of hiking long distances, I just cant compete with someone with keys to a gate and a truck :dunno:
I'll add to this a bit.
I'm just gonna go ahead and say private timber is owners access rules.
Basically you are trespassing and not allowed to be there if you don't follow the land owners rules. Your right to access is void if you can't follow the rules.
You could be charged with trespassing
Banned from access to said timber land
Or be given a ticket by a warden.
A lot of timber land are gonna start going these routes due to the mass majority of people who can't seem to respect there access rules.
Will also add just like orv,ATV,sxs, pickup ,whatever, the more people that get on the ebike wagon .
The sooner these rules will be enforced.
E-bikes are not the same as a regular bicycle,I'm sorry for a few of you that are using that excuse.
I've been looking toward that direction and when it says it's got a 20 mile range with no pedal assistance.
And a 50 or 60 mile range if you pedal that's not a regular bicycle.
I'm sorry.
Post by: SuperX on April 27, 2022, 09:07:35 AM
Post by: CP on April 27, 2022, 09:24:23 AM
will the silent nature of e-bikes open up harvest opportunities for road hunting? I think the deer will just stand there and stare at you... Rifle loaded on the rack, ready to go, all you'd need to do is put your feet down and shoot!
Actually, not the case. Deer are used to engine driven vehicles. They usually stand and stare at them, at least until you turn the engine off. Highly skilled road hunters always leave the engine on.
E-vehicles however are different. Deer don’t see them often and they don’t like something strange approaching them. They don’t seem to be the least bit curious.
Post by: Cylvertip on April 27, 2022, 09:38:19 AM
Post by: SuperX on April 27, 2022, 09:39:11 AM
I'll defer to your experience, but remember you have to open your door to shoot in a car, if you could shoot out the window of your car legally, would that be fair?will the silent nature of e-bikes open up harvest opportunities for road hunting? I think the deer will just stand there and stare at you... Rifle loaded on the rack, ready to go, all you'd need to do is put your feet down and shoot!
Actually, not the case. Deer are used to engine driven vehicles. They usually stand and stare at them, at least until you turn the engine off. Highly skilled road hunters always leave the engine on.
E-vehicles however are different. Deer don’t see them often and they don’t like something strange approaching them. They don’t seem to be the least bit curious.
Post by: CP on April 27, 2022, 09:47:04 AM
I'll defer to your experience, but remember you have to open your door to shoot in a car, if you could shoot out the window of your car legally, would that be fair?will the silent nature of e-bikes open up harvest opportunities for road hunting? I think the deer will just stand there and stare at you... Rifle loaded on the rack, ready to go, all you'd need to do is put your feet down and shoot!
Actually, not the case. Deer are used to engine driven vehicles. They usually stand and stare at them, at least until you turn the engine off. Highly skilled road hunters always leave the engine on.
E-vehicles however are different. Deer don’t see them often and they don’t like something strange approaching them. They don’t seem to be the least bit curious.
Not commenting on what is fair or what isn’t, just what I’ve observed of animal behavior.
Post by: trophyhunt on April 27, 2022, 09:59:15 AM
my opinion, no. Lots of differences between those two.And if it’s open to bicycles it should be open to ebikes as well.How bout dirt bikes?
Post by: trophyhunt on April 27, 2022, 10:07:35 AM
Post by: JakeLand on April 27, 2022, 12:11:08 PM
Ebikes shouldn't be running up on pack animals because they should be on orv trails, with other motorized vehicles.evolution it happens , ya you don’t ride a Lama but it hauls gear in and out and meat out too sooo it is a major help as is a e- bike . Horses and mules are pain but they again help out a ton for wilderness hunting and they tear up area way more then a E-bike and I’m not against the use of pack animals at all because in a sense a E-bike is a electric horse with less of a foot print on the landscape my :twocents:
and besides, you don't ride llamas so you're still hiking :chuckle:
There's not enough horse camps to support a huge user group like ebikes with trailers either taking up those spots. Like I said its a new user group pushing out an old user group.
Post by: KFhunter on April 27, 2022, 10:35:24 PM
Post by: huntnnw on April 27, 2022, 11:06:49 PM
Post by: Scruffy on April 28, 2022, 02:25:54 AM
I personally feel if the road/path is closed to motorized vehicles then no Ebikes. Where I hunted the road was gated for motorized vehicles and guys took their Ebike in there. You can't hear them coming up behind you until they are passing you doing 20+mph. Who is getting sued if they hit someone? Most places are remote so emergency services are a long wait. Just my :twocents:
Post by: hunter399 on April 28, 2022, 05:18:27 AM
But .......
I've been thinking on it,everybody goes around the gates anyway on ATV,SXS, or whatever with a motor.
Knowing there breaking the rules.
While I'm stuck walking is getting old fast.
Why shouldn't I get to use an ebike ,should be the question.
There is already people back there.
Few places I hunt there are ATV trail around every gate.
I was at one gate yesterday,doing some target shooting.
I had to wait before shooting for two SXS to come out from behind the gate,middle of the week,only thing open is,turkey,coyote,maybe cougar.
Post by: GWP on April 28, 2022, 06:07:22 AM
And if it’s open to bicycles it should be open to ebikes as well.How bout dirt bikes?
How about the electric dirt bikes?
Yes, they do exist.
Post by: hunter399 on April 28, 2022, 06:45:35 AM
Slippery slope ⛰And if it’s open to bicycles it should be open to ebikes as well.How bout dirt bikes?
How about the electric dirt bikes?
Yes, they do exist.
Like I said in my post ,the guys with gas motor are already back there.
Motor is a motor electric or gas.
The problem isn't the motor ,lack of enforcement,people that feel the rules don't apply to them.
Is the problem.
Post by: trophyhunt on April 28, 2022, 06:50:07 AM
just depends on the watts I guess. I don’t want to see jumps, burn outs and doughnut marks in the wilderness just like most. The feds have a 750 watt and under set for now that they consider NON motorized. Obviously 750 and under still has a motor but it’s nothing like most people think it is, so if the electric dirt bike is 750 and under, sure. And just a reminder, I’m only talking about trails that allow mountain bikes, I’m not for ebikes in the wilderness where even regular bikes aren’t allowed.And if it’s open to bicycles it should be open to ebikes as well.How bout dirt bikes?
How about the electric dirt bikes?
Yes, they do exist.
Post by: Rainier10 on April 28, 2022, 07:19:30 AM
Post by: netcoyote on April 28, 2022, 07:29:45 AM
Post by: CP on April 28, 2022, 07:46:44 AM
For those that feel strongly that ebikes are the spawn of Satan, make sure that you fill out the survey and voice your opinion at the meetings. You might want to avoid arguments like "ebikes will lead to more people in my hunting spot" and "nonmotorized means, nonmotorized". I doubt that those will sway the decision makers.
I don't really have a dog in this fight; I have an ADA pass which already allows me to ride those trails. So, good luck to you.
Post by: CP on April 28, 2022, 07:47:52 AM
Post by: hunter399 on April 28, 2022, 07:59:30 AM
I've seen a few hunting YouTube's vids ,where guys are using them. And it looks like a horse trail,or well worn game trail,
Hiking path ,whatever it looks like they can take terrain pretty well.
Post by: SuperX on April 28, 2022, 08:28:06 AM
Post by: mcrawfordaf on April 28, 2022, 08:30:21 AM
Just to reset and clarify what this survey is about. It's about allowing class 1&2 ebikes on trails that are already open to bicycles. A 750watt ebike is no faster than a regular bike. In fact, they are slower; they weigh a lot more, and their speed is capped and they don't climb hills very well.
For those that feel strongly that ebikes are the spawn of Satan, make sure that you fill out the survey and voice your opinion at the meetings. You might want to avoid arguments like "ebikes will lead to more people in my hunting spot" and "nonmotorized means, nonmotorized". I doubt that those will sway the decision makers.
I don't really have a dog in this fight; I have an ADA pass which already allows me to ride those trails. So, good luck to you.
You keep using this picture as though they are not capable of doing anything...
Post by: CP on April 28, 2022, 08:41:47 AM
Just to reset and clarify what this survey is about. It's about allowing class 1&2 ebikes on trails that are already open to bicycles. A 750watt ebike is no faster than a regular bike. In fact, they are slower; they weigh a lot more, and their speed is capped and they don't climb hills very well.
For those that feel strongly that ebikes are the spawn of Satan, make sure that you fill out the survey and voice your opinion at the meetings. You might want to avoid arguments like "ebikes will lead to more people in my hunting spot" and "nonmotorized means, nonmotorized". I doubt that those will sway the decision makers.
I don't really have a dog in this fight; I have an ADA pass which already allows me to ride those trails. So, good luck to you.
You keep using this picture as though they are not capable of doing anything...
That’s because it matches my capabilities. If I went over that rock face, I’d need a medivac.
Post by: mcrawfordaf on April 28, 2022, 08:43:55 AM
:chuckle: :chuckle: fair enoughJust to reset and clarify what this survey is about. It's about allowing class 1&2 ebikes on trails that are already open to bicycles. A 750watt ebike is no faster than a regular bike. In fact, they are slower; they weigh a lot more, and their speed is capped and they don't climb hills very well.
For those that feel strongly that ebikes are the spawn of Satan, make sure that you fill out the survey and voice your opinion at the meetings. You might want to avoid arguments like "ebikes will lead to more people in my hunting spot" and "nonmotorized means, nonmotorized". I doubt that those will sway the decision makers.
I don't really have a dog in this fight; I have an ADA pass which already allows me to ride those trails. So, good luck to you.
You keep using this picture as though they are not capable of doing anything...
That’s because it matches my capabilities. If I went over that rock face, I’d need a medivac.
Post by: ridgefire on April 30, 2022, 12:03:49 AM
Post by: JakeLand on April 30, 2022, 08:44:02 AM
I am all for class 1 and 2 on public lands. I think you should be able to ride them anywhere you can ride a horse besides in the wilderness areas.:tup:
Post by: LongBomb on April 30, 2022, 09:38:15 AM
Post by: JakeLand on April 30, 2022, 09:43:05 AM
I have a 750 watt Surron ebike. One wire clipped and its 40mph. Its basically a dirt bike but its only 100lbs so i could get into places no dirtbike could. Im not a fan of ebikes on nonmotorized roads/trails. Ive been 10 miles in on my pedal, not ebike, and had ebikes blitz by me. Kinda chaps me. It has a MOTOR, 750 watts or notbut really does the ebike do any more or less damage to the trail then a regular bike ? I say less because of the wider tires
Post by: GWP on April 30, 2022, 10:22:15 AM
I have a 750 watt Surron ebike. One wire clipped and its 40mph. Its basically a dirt bike but its only 100lbs so i could get into places no dirtbike could. Im not a fan of ebikes on nonmotorized roads/trails. Ive been 10 miles in on my pedal, not ebike, and had ebikes blitz by me. Kinda chaps me. It has a MOTOR, 750 watts or not
Challenge accepted!
Well, not by me, but a bud of mine. I am volunteering him!
:chuckle:
I have a friend that got into and started modifying electric bike's since they first came out.
Some of his were very fast, irregardless of what the sticker on the motor says.
And I can guarantee he would not stay on a trail.
Post by: KFhunter on April 30, 2022, 10:33:50 AM
(other than widening single track to atv trails)
It's about conflict between user groups, and the experiences they expect within a trail system.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on April 30, 2022, 10:36:00 AM
E-bike would likely be carrying a bit more weight, so I'd guess it would even out. I think my neighbor's e-bike weighs about 70 lbs, but you could easily carry more stuff with all that help. My mountain bike is just under 30 lbs and I limit the amount in the backpack. E-bike sure is nice to fly around the neighborhood at 33-34 mph, though.I have a 750 watt Surron ebike. One wire clipped and its 40mph. Its basically a dirt bike but its only 100lbs so i could get into places no dirtbike could. Im not a fan of ebikes on nonmotorized roads/trails. Ive been 10 miles in on my pedal, not ebike, and had ebikes blitz by me. Kinda chaps me. It has a MOTOR, 750 watts or notbut really does the ebike do any more or less damage to the trail then a regular bike ? I say less because of the wider tires
Post by: LongBomb on April 30, 2022, 01:04:06 PM
I have a 750 watt Surron ebike. One wire clipped and its 40mph. Its basically a dirt bike but its only 100lbs so i could get into places no dirtbike could. Im not a fan of ebikes on nonmotorized roads/trails. Ive been 10 miles in on my pedal, not ebike, and had ebikes blitz by me. Kinda chaps me. It has a MOTOR, 750 watts or notbut really does the ebike do any more or less damage to the trail then a regular bike ? I say less because of the wider tires
No more damage than a bike, idiots aside. Im just scratching my head how theyre not considered a motor vehicle to some people and why any ebike is allowed in non-motorized areas.
Post by: LongBomb on April 30, 2022, 01:10:27 PM
I have a 750 watt Surron ebike. One wire clipped and its 40mph. Its basically a dirt bike but its only 100lbs so i could get into places no dirtbike could. Im not a fan of ebikes on nonmotorized roads/trails. Ive been 10 miles in on my pedal, not ebike, and had ebikes blitz by me. Kinda chaps me. It has a MOTOR, 750 watts or not
Challenge accepted!
Well, not by me, but a bud of mine. I am volunteering him!
:chuckle:
I have a friend that got into and started modifying electric bike's since they first came out.
Some of his were very fast, irregardless of what the sticker on the motor says.
And I can guarantee he would not stay on a trail.
I think you misunderstood me cuz thats what im getting at. My ebike can go just about anywhere you can walk through the woods.
Post by: fishngamereaper on April 30, 2022, 01:20:45 PM
PotlatchDeltic in Idaho just had to implement new use rules. They use the term "motorized" when referencing closure area's. Seems pretty straight forward. Buddy hunts out of orifino and his conversation's with Potlach employees this last year where echoing legitimate concerns. Increase in use, increase in fire danger's and to many people. Guess we'll see.
Post by: Okano-gun on May 06, 2022, 09:51:23 AM
Post by: Cougartail on May 06, 2022, 10:07:40 AM
I think all bikes should be banned on WDFW land. The rampant illegal trail building I have seen by these mountain bike groups on the Methow Wildlife Area is sickening. There will never be enough trails for them. They are causing irreparable damage to the shrub steppe habitat and displacing wildlife. Prime example Lester Road area. That being said if they continue to allow mountain bikes I am in favor of allowing all types of e-bikes. I also think there should be different rules for WDFW and DNR lands. These agencies have very different mission statements.
How about a "Green Dot" system like with motorized vehicles? Not perfect but far better than a full ban. Hikers, hunters and wildlife put in many trails also. Ban them?
Post by: Okano-gun on May 06, 2022, 10:21:36 AM
I think that was proposed in The WDFW Rec plan "all are closed unless signed open". I haven't seen hikers hunters or wildlife building trails as groups using pulaski's, mcleods, etc. :dunno:I think all bikes should be banned on WDFW land. The rampant illegal trail building I have seen by these mountain bike groups on the Methow Wildlife Area is sickening. There will never be enough trails for them. They are causing irreparable damage to the shrub steppe habitat and displacing wildlife. Prime example Lester Road area. That being said if they continue to allow mountain bikes I am in favor of allowing all types of e-bikes. I also think there should be different rules for WDFW and DNR lands. These agencies have very different mission statements.
How about a "Green Dot" system like with motorized vehicles? Not perfect but far better than a full ban. Hikers, hunters and wildlife put in many trails also. Ban them?
Post by: buckfvr on May 06, 2022, 11:35:20 AM
Post by: Cougartail on May 06, 2022, 11:56:30 AM
I think people are making a big mistake viewing this through a hunters eyes. Its not about hunters, rather its about giving access to an entirely different user group and making access easier for them. Wont be long before your favorite patch of woods is a destination for groups of e-biker greenies, complete with camping access for them. Count on it.
My eyes are wide open! Trails I used for coyote hunting 10 years ago now have bikers and hikers on them year around. They were barely a trail 40 years ago but now you could run side by sides down them.
I nolonger hunt on them until after dark. Manbuns and hairy armpiters believe the trails were put in for their style of recreation only.
Post by: bbarnes on May 12, 2022, 07:37:13 PM
Post by: Alex4200 on May 12, 2022, 08:08:05 PM
Post by: guardian on May 12, 2022, 08:20:33 PM
Post by: KFhunter on May 12, 2022, 08:43:36 PM
Little past the gate road huntin on the Harley?
Post by: JakeLand on May 13, 2022, 06:23:46 AM
I was reading the e-Harley thread...ya?i guess as long as it’s pedal assist and 750 watt or less !
Little past the gate road huntin on the Harley?
Post by: hunter399 on May 13, 2022, 07:12:14 AM
Like said before ... :chuckle: :chuckle:I was reading the e-Harley thread...ya?i guess as long as it’s pedal assist and 750 watt or less !
Little past the gate road huntin on the Harley?
I'm over it ,can't beat em ,join em.
If e-harleys are da way to go. Then I'm going. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Just to throw it out there,nobody cares about the 750 watt rule or pedal assist.
I'll just weld some pedals on there ,and buy a 750 sticker and slap it on good to go.
Cost me 2.50$ for the sticker,and nothing for the pedals. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: GWP on May 13, 2022, 07:58:06 AM
Their peddle assist not motorized.
If that is the only consideration then gas powered mopeds (pedal assist) should be allowed as well? Similar speeds.
Love those old two stroke mopeds!
Post by: JakeLand on May 13, 2022, 08:00:10 AM
750 watts or lessTheir peddle assist not motorized.
If that is the only consideration then gas powered mopeds (pedal assist) should be allowed as well? Similar speeds.
Love those old two stroke mopeds!
Post by: KFhunter on May 13, 2022, 08:30:16 AM
Lot's of ebikes are "750 watts" but push a button and blammo, uncorked
Post by: guardian on May 14, 2022, 08:50:21 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on May 14, 2022, 09:19:46 AM
When my wife and i were younger we hiked in as we got older we bought mountain bikes. Now that we're in our senior years we have peddle assist bikes so that we can still enjoy the outdoors. The chains break and tires go flat like a standard bike but it keeps us out. We're not interested in breaking land speed records or being the farthest in. It just keeps us outdoors rather it be hunting, fishing or berry picking. Lets keep the older folks in mind when concidering these topics.how selfish of you!! Your too old now, let the younger peeps have the woods!!
:chuckle: I’m being sarcastic but I bet half the anti ebikers feel that way.
Post by: guardian on May 14, 2022, 05:29:10 PM
Post by: Fishhunt223 on May 14, 2022, 07:48:42 PM
Post by: MR5x5 on May 15, 2022, 08:29:55 AM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on May 15, 2022, 08:58:42 AM
Just program in a 750w nanny switch :chuckle:750 W is actually a lot power especially considering the extended run times of an E-bike. Not many in the competitive world of bikes can hold more than 250W for more than an hour, and only a small percentage like those in tour de France can keep at 400W.
Lot's of ebikes are "750 watts" but push a button and blammo, uncorked
Post by: guardian on May 15, 2022, 09:15:03 AM
Post by: KFhunter on May 15, 2022, 09:42:09 AM
Just program in a 750w nanny switch :chuckle:750 W is actually a lot power especially considering the extended run times of an E-bike. Not many in the competitive world of bikes can hold more than 250W for more than an hour, and only a small percentage like those in tour de France can keep at 400W.
Lot's of ebikes are "750 watts" but push a button and blammo, uncorked
You're talking about human output of 400w equivalent, I get that. I'm not interested in how much watts I can pedal, only interested in if that bike can lug me and my crap "up there"
Post by: JimmyHoffa on May 15, 2022, 10:09:51 AM
yeah, 750 W can seriously haul...you'll probably be fine. Even hauling out an elk. I was just pointing out how much you might want to expect from various power. It would be like having the power of five or six normal guys pedaling. My neighbor's Ebike is 750W, about 70-75 lbs (has the double battery) and with my weight --200lbs gets to about 34 mph.Just program in a 750w nanny switch :chuckle:750 W is actually a lot power especially considering the extended run times of an E-bike. Not many in the competitive world of bikes can hold more than 250W for more than an hour, and only a small percentage like those in tour de France can keep at 400W.
Lot's of ebikes are "750 watts" but push a button and blammo, uncorked
You're talking about human output of 400w equivalent, I get that. I'm not interested in how much watts I can pedal, only interested in if that bike can lug me and my crap "up there"
Post by: MR5x5 on May 15, 2022, 10:14:29 AM
yeah, 750 W can seriously haul...you'll probably be fine. Even hauling out an elk. I was just pointing out how much you might want to expect from various power. It would be like having the power of five or six normal guys pedaling. My neighbor's Ebike is 750W, about 70-75 lbs (has the double battery) and with my weight --200lbs gets to about 34 mph.Just program in a 750w nanny switch :chuckle:750 W is actually a lot power especially considering the extended run times of an E-bike. Not many in the competitive world of bikes can hold more than 250W for more than an hour, and only a small percentage like those in tour de France can keep at 400W.
Lot's of ebikes are "750 watts" but push a button and blammo, uncorked
You're talking about human output of 400w equivalent, I get that. I'm not interested in how much watts I can pedal, only interested in if that bike can lug me and my crap "up there"
EBike - really much more an EMotorcycle than an EBicycle.
Post by: KFhunter on May 15, 2022, 10:56:20 AM
I just worry about reducing ORV access for gas vehicles
Post by: Ridgeratt on May 15, 2022, 01:08:56 PM
Post by: JakeLand on May 15, 2022, 08:46:03 PM
Post by: fireweed on May 31, 2022, 08:47:43 AM
Post by: Rainier10 on May 31, 2022, 09:06:26 AM
Forget about the fact that this guy is trespassing through my gate which is in the middle of my property with no public access and just focus on the 50cc pit bike that he is on. It will only go as fast as a 750 watt ebike so it must be okay to be on a closed to motorized vehicles road right? Instead of a spare battery he has a one gallon gas jug on the front fender so he can get farther in.
It becomes a slippery slope when you start saying an electric motor isn’t a motor because it’s not very powerful. Obviously the same argument can be made for a small cc gas motor. It’s not any more powerful than an ebike.
Post by: Rainier10 on May 31, 2022, 09:10:05 AM
Post by: KFhunter on May 31, 2022, 09:26:21 AM
Thanks for the justification!
(Sarcasm)
Post by: Rainier10 on May 31, 2022, 09:37:49 AM
Well, if he can use a pit bike, my dirt bike isn't much different either is it? It's less than 750cc and a cc is like a watt right??Exactly. Where does it end? No motorized should mean no motor, period.
Thanks for the justification!
(Sarcasm)
I feel like no trespassing should be the same also instead of no trespassing for a little bit is okay if I’m just trying to get over there. But that’s a whole different topic.
Post by: birddogdad on May 31, 2022, 10:54:48 AM
Post by: CP on May 31, 2022, 11:55:06 AM
:)
Post by: ballpark on May 31, 2022, 12:18:14 PM
Love my ebike!! Less damage to trails than horses, the hate for these bikes crack me up. :chuckle:how is thinking a motorized vehicle should be treated as a motorized vehicle hate :dunno: They are motorized. Simple as that. Yes I've ridden them fyi.
Definition of motor vehicle
: an automotive vehicle not operated on rails
For legal purpose, motor vehicles are often identified within a number of vehicle classes including cars, buses, motorcycles, off-road vehicles, light trucks and regular trucks. :dunno:
Post by: Platensek-po on May 31, 2022, 12:26:45 PM
Post by: ballpark on May 31, 2022, 12:31:28 PM
There is only one question that matters on motorized access. Does it have a motor? That’s it. If it’s marked non motorized only then that’s the only applicable question.
A person is considered the motor of a pedaled bicycle. :tup: and makes more noise than an ebike. :chuckle:
Post by: Platensek-po on May 31, 2022, 12:34:44 PM
There is only one question that matters on motorized access. Does it have a motor? That’s it. If it’s marked non motorized only then that’s the only applicable question.
A person is considered the motor of a pedaled bicycle. :tup: and makes more noise than an ebike. :chuckle:
Lolololol. Not even close to the same thing and you know it. A human is not a motor. Does the vehicle itself have a motor independent of a human? Non motorized is one of the easiest and clearest rules there is.
Post by: Bullkllr on May 31, 2022, 12:44:01 PM
:yeah: Seems like it.There is only one question that matters on motorized access. Does it have a motor? That’s it. If it’s marked non motorized only then that’s the only applicable question.
A person is considered the motor of a pedaled bicycle. :tup: and makes more noise than an ebike. :chuckle:
Lolololol. Not even close to the same thing and you know it. A human is not a motor. Does the vehicle itself have a motor independent of a human? Non motorized is one of the easiest and clearest rules there is.
The biggest argument against that clarity seems to run along the lines of, "Well I have one, so it's not..."
Post by: ballpark on May 31, 2022, 12:44:45 PM
There is only one question that matters on motorized access. Does it have a motor? That’s it. If it’s marked non motorized only then that’s the only applicable question.
A person is considered the motor of a pedaled bicycle. :tup: and makes more noise than an ebike. :chuckle:
Lolololol. Not even close to the same thing and you know it. A human is not a motor. Does the vehicle itself have a motor independent of a human? Non motorized is one of the easiest and clearest rules there is.
You've never seen the Flinstones
Post by: Platensek-po on May 31, 2022, 01:28:21 PM
That vehicle would definitely be allowed on a non motorized road!There is only one question that matters on motorized access. Does it have a motor? That’s it. If it’s marked non motorized only then that’s the only applicable question.
A person is considered the motor of a pedaled bicycle. :tup: and makes more noise than an ebike. :chuckle:
Lolololol. Not even close to the same thing and you know it. A human is not a motor. Does the vehicle itself have a motor independent of a human? Non motorized is one of the easiest and clearest rules there is.
You've never seen the Flinstones
Post by: hunter399 on May 31, 2022, 02:26:10 PM
Sent emails.
I'm against E-bikes on non motorized roads or trails.
As many know on here ,dry side is kinda on an honor system.
We don't pay for access,as long as you follow the access rules.
Which has and will continue to be taken advantage of until it is pay to play.
Most timber company land on this side is under a cooperative road closure agreement with WDFW ,to allow access to non motorized recreation.
I'll try to sum this up quickly......
WDFW has there symbol on many closed road signs over here,even though they don't own the land and are not in charge of access,basically they just enforce the access rules.
The problem is many people will see that symbol on the gate and think there allowed to use there ebike.
WDFW non enforcement of the road closure agreement will cause timber company to shut down access for EVERYBODY.
For timber company's it is all about liabilities, If you allow motor vehicle then there is always a chance of someone getting hurt,being sued,fire season,and more liabilities I'm sure.
LOOK on page 95 hunting regulations.
Under the road closure agreement.
I'm thinking well over a million acres of free to access hunting will be GONE.
People just don't think.....
Ask yourself this why do timber company's move rocks,dig tank traps,gate,and ditch many access points,Trash,and liabilities,that's the main reason.
As long as they continue to enforce the road closure agreement,no motorized vehicles.
I really don't care what DNR,FS ,does.
What they decide now,may cause us to lose access to those areas on page 95.
I'm already been looking at E-bikes my self,and will use one depending on what they decide.
Take a hard look at page 95 in the hunting regulations,
Keep pushing this and that page won't even exist in the regs.
Post by: Rainier10 on May 31, 2022, 02:34:58 PM
Post by: birddogdad on May 31, 2022, 03:57:45 PM
Did the survey.
Sent emails.
I'm against E-bikes on non motorized roads or trails.
As many know on here ,dry side is kinda on an honor system.
We don't pay for access,as long as you follow the access rules.
Which has and will continue to be taken advantage of until it is pay to play.
Most timber company land on this side is under a cooperative road closure agreement with WDFW ,to allow access to non motorized recreation.
I'll try to sum this up quickly......
WDFW has there symbol on many closed road signs over here,even though they don't own the land and are not in charge of access,basically they just enforce the access rules.
The problem is many people will see that symbol on the gate and think there allowed to use there ebike.
WDFW non enforcement of the road closure agreement will cause timber company to shut down access for EVERYBODY.
For timber company's it is all about liabilities, If you allow motor vehicle then there is always a chance of someone getting hurt,being sued,fire season,and more liabilities I'm sure.
LOOK on page 95 hunting regulations.
Under the road closure agreement.
I'm thinking well over a million acres of free to access hunting will be GONE.
People just don't think.....
Ask yourself this why do timber company's move rocks,dig tank traps,gate,and ditch many access points,Trash,and liabilities,that's the main reason.
As long as they continue to enforce the road closure agreement,no motorized vehicles.
I really don't care what DNR,FS ,does.
What they decide now,may cause us to lose access to those areas on page 95.
I'm already been looking at E-bikes my self,and will use one depending on what they decide.
Take a hard look at page 95 in the hunting regulations,
Keep pushing this and that page won't even exist in the regs.
funny how we make excuses and say legal issues on one type of bike that some have very negative opinions on, how exactly is Idaho surviving, they run everything one state over and game is just fine there... Seems like focus on a specific set of folks or group who may have a need or desire to use a bike.. lets go all for one, no bikes, no horses, no behind gate access by any vehicle, no wheels, tribal prevention included, no game carts, no pack animals, NONE.. all eliminated.. either it is or it isnt really an issue...
Post by: hunter399 on May 31, 2022, 04:15:05 PM
What you just described and more will happen.Did the survey.
Sent emails.
I'm against E-bikes on non motorized roads or trails.
As many know on here ,dry side is kinda on an honor system.
We don't pay for access,as long as you follow the access rules.
Which has and will continue to be taken advantage of until it is pay to play.
Most timber company land on this side is under a cooperative road closure agreement with WDFW ,to allow access to non motorized recreation.
I'll try to sum this up quickly......
WDFW has there symbol on many closed road signs over here,even though they don't own the land and are not in charge of access,basically they just enforce the access rules.
The problem is many people will see that symbol on the gate and think there allowed to use there ebike.
WDFW non enforcement of the road closure agreement will cause timber company to shut down access for EVERYBODY.
For timber company's it is all about liabilities, If you allow motor vehicle then there is always a chance of someone getting hurt,being sued,fire season,and more liabilities I'm sure.
LOOK on page 95 hunting regulations.
Under the road closure agreement.
I'm thinking well over a million acres of free to access hunting will be GONE.
People just don't think.....
Ask yourself this why do timber company's move rocks,dig tank traps,gate,and ditch many access points,Trash,and liabilities,that's the main reason.
As long as they continue to enforce the road closure agreement,no motorized vehicles.
I really don't care what DNR,FS ,does.
What they decide now,may cause us to lose access to those areas on page 95.
I'm already been looking at E-bikes my self,and will use one depending on what they decide.
Take a hard look at page 95 in the hunting regulations,
Keep pushing this and that page won't even exist in the regs.
funny how we make excuses and say legal issues on one type of bike that some have very negative opinions on, how exactly is Idaho surviving, they run everything one state over and game is just fine there... Seems like focus on a specific set of folks or group who may have a need or desire to use a bike.. lets go all for one, no bikes, no horses, no behind gate access by any vehicle, no wheels, tribal prevention included, no game carts, no pack animals, NONE.. all eliminated.. either it is or it isnt really an issue...
All I'm saying is all the lands on page 95 in the hunting regulations is private land ,that all the entities involed agreed to no motorized vehicles.
Those private land owners can pull out of that agreement anytime. Go to pay to play all the way to no access at all.
Over a million acres of free access to hunt is in jeopardy cause a handful of people have to push,bend,or find a grey area in the rules.
I don't hunt Idaho yet. So my knowledge is pretty grim.
How E-bikes effect Wildlife,or hunting the many miles per acre of switch back logging roads and fair chase.
Are debatable .....
I try to keep access and fair chase and ethics as two different topics.
Access is access is pretty simple.
Fair chase/ethics everybody has a different opinion.
Just for the record .....
I'm not totally against,WDFW land,DNR,Forest Service,BLM, can make any rules they want within there departments.
I'm very concerned about the road closure agreement on page 95 of the hunting regulations.
The enforcement that the road closure agreement propertys are not being enforced enough as is. And will get worse and cause land owners to back out.
Don't get me wrong,they will all be pay to play some day.
But this whole situation is gonna speed up the process.
Post by: CP on June 06, 2022, 03:06:04 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on June 06, 2022, 03:18:16 PM
Post by: luvmystang67 on June 20, 2022, 05:33:27 PM
Gates used to be open... they didn't close them to make people less lazy; they closed them to reduce damage to property, reduce dumping, and perhaps reduce impacts to wildlife (but we know this was really a tertiary objective). If people had respected property, gates would still be open.
IMO - Ebikes do not significantly impact my ability to dump an old TV in the woods and shoot it, and I'm not about to drop through a clearcut and rut up the road. They're not loud, they do probably less damage than horses.
If your only reason for disliking them is that you want to keep lazy people out of a hunting spot... that seems like a new intention to me that has not been a previous rationale. The idea of hunting "fairness" seems to be a new one that is a biproduct of the previous closures.
:twocents:
#ebikes4lyfe lol
Post by: bobcat on June 23, 2022, 10:32:35 AM
You can watch it on Zoom.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/meetings/2022/23-25june2022-fwc-agenda
Post by: guardian on June 23, 2022, 07:04:01 PM