New Elk Rifle Help

[Karl Blanchard]

People also need to understand that using a Berger type bullet in their military grade sniper rifle that they are all dialed in to kill rabbits at 1,200 yds will blow up and usually not kill the whitetail/elk/whatever that jumps up at 80 yds. when they are hiking in.  I've seen waaaay too many examples of it over the years.  Looks like a grenade went off on the entry side and little if any penetration.

This is interesting to me. Do you happen to have any more info on these incidents? Weight of bullet and in what caliber they were fired? Impact velocities? I've partaken in HUNDREDS of berger kills at this point in my hunting carrier,  between 20 yards and 1300 yards and projectiles ranging from 95gr 6mm's at lightning speed to 300 grainers out of a 338 Terminator. Ironically the terminator was actually the closest berger kill I've seen.  Sitka blacktail buck on kodiak.

Like I said, I'd love some more data points. Possibly enable us to find a common theme to these exploding bullets

[jbuck]

A couple of data points and not sure how they apply to berger "type". However I'm guessing that means non-bonded cup and core bullets.

I'm working thru a bunch of ELDX bullets in my 6.5cm and I have definitely seen shallow wounds on deer. The closest one I seen killed was about 10yds. I was hunting with my kid and seen a spike walking up a game trail so we got ahead of it and set him up on a stump expecting the deer to pop out on the trail. Deer ended up popping out a different trail on our side. My kid hit it in the vitals, but the bullet exploded as you would expect. Deer died as it's lungs were Jell-O, but did zero damage to the inside of the offside ribcage. I'd guess less then 10" penetration without hitting a bone. It took off towards a steep hill and he shot it a second time. Had it been a elk shoulder instead and I would guess it would have took out the bone, but not significantly damage the vitals. The only bullets that I've had exit are either neck shots or 350yds+.

I've seen a bunch of deer killed with the 143ELDx and as soon as I'm out of what I have on hand I'm going to move to a bonded bullet. They reason I don't switch now is they routinely shoot 2-3" groups at 500yds.

[pickardjw]

Insignificant sample size, but we've shot 3 critters with the 143 ELD-X, one bear and two mulies with consistent results.

1. Mule Deer at 325 yds - two shots, one through neck and one through vitals. Both bullets exited, golf ball size exit. Didn't leave his bed.

2. Black bear at 350 yds - two shots, one through hip/femur and one through vitals. Both exited, golf ball size exit again. Maybe went 100 yards. (pic with finger)

3. Mule Deer at 100 yds - two shots, both through vitals. Only saw one exit but I wasn't doing most of the butchering. Went down in less than 100 yds. (pic with havalon)

I'm happy with the bullet and have read/seen enough of other's successes with it to be confident in it. Would not hesitate to shoot an elk with it at all.

[ipkus]

300 Ultra - 215 Hybrid - two different deer - one at 100 yds another at 175 yds

7 STW -  140 VLD - elk at 60 yds, deer at 80-100 yds

300 Weatherby - 155 VLD - deer at 125 yds


To be clearer, I'm not saying this always happens, but 5 times out of the probably 10 critters I've seen people harvest with the above guns at short distances have required follow up(s) and 2 resulted in lost animals.  Not all were perfect hits, but one was absolutely 10 holed and still did it on a rib.

The only thing I can reckon is the high speed the bullets are still doing at that short of a distance negatively affects the bullets ability to perform properly.

A Terminator at 20 yds. on a blacktail??  The muzzle blast probably would've killed it 

[jrebel]

I can't speak to bergers...but I can definitely speak to my ELD-X experience. 

300 win mag Christensen Ridgeline Rifle
212 ELD-X
MV 2850 if my memory serves me right....I may still have the notes on the load to confirm if it really matters to someone. 

One Bear....bullet dynamited on a shoulder and did not kill the bear.  500 yard shot, high shoulder hit with a slightly quartering to shot.  I had elevation with bullet trajectory downhill....would have exited mid way down body.  I have pictures of this bear the next year with a large hair patch missing.  I found hair and meat at impact site....very little blood.  Bear lived. 

Two Moose:

1'st moose was 40 yards broadside.  1st shot to the head...moose locked up and stood their (dead moose standing).  2nd and 3rd shot right behind shoulder, neither exited.  Moose died but not overly impressed with results. 

2nd moose was 300 yards broadside.  1st shot looks to have penciled through with entry and exit being less than 1-1.5" diameter.  Moose lunged and dropped to his knees. Second shot to the neck....which put the moose down for good. 

My impressions....very inconsistent performance.  I won't hunt with them again.  Some dynamited, some penciled, the ones that dynamited....I never found the bullets, only copper fragments.  I didn't look overly hard, but I usually find bullets on the offside hide....nothing.   

[Karl Blanchard]

300 Ultra - 215 Hybrid - two different deer - one at 100 yds another at 175 yds

7 STW -  140 VLD - elk at 60 yds, deer at 80-100 yds

300 Weatherby - 155 VLD - deer at 125 yds


To be clearer, I'm not saying this always happens, but 5 times out of the probably 10 critters I've seen people harvest with the above guns at short distances have required follow up(s) and 2 resulted in lost animals.  Not all were perfect hits, but one was absolutely 10 holed and still did it on a rib.

The only thing I can reckon is the high speed the bullets are still doing at that short of a distance negatively affects the bullets ability to perform properly.

A Terminator at 20 yds. on a blacktail??  The muzzle blast probably would've killed it 

  Appreciate the info.  The 215 is very surprising to me.  The other two I could definitely see where those light of bullets behind those big gas tanks could cause issues.

Bad part about not recovering the lost critters is its impossible to truly know what happened. Was it rapid upset or was their a failure to upset. But with any long nose vld style bullet you are still gonna get "tumbling", which causes massive trauma (think DTAC's).